Vishay Z-Foil vs Audio Note Non-Magnetic Resistors

[ayreman]

AN Kaisei caps are quite colored compared to the Black Gates they were suppose to emulate but of course that's something else again.

Do you think replacing AN Kaisei caps with Mundorf MLGO HV is a good idea?

 

[Barry]

Do you think replacing AN Kaisei caps with Mundorf MLGO HV is a good idea?

No experience with Mundorfs. They get some good reviews over on diyAudio which is where I'd research. I used the AN Kaisei in the signal path, in a low voltage application, NOT in a power supply. There, I found them warm, liquid, a little "oily" sounding, and somewhat bass-shy. It's possible they didn't have enough break-in time, although I ran them for over 100 hours. YMMV.

I make these changes slowly, step by step. That way, I don't end up with a dog's dinner and know how to fix things as I go along. It's also cheaper.

 

[bazelio]

I've compared AN tantalum to Vishay naked foils as plate loads in a DIY tube headphone amp. I've not tried the silver ANs. Both are excellent, IMO, with the ANs having more of a pleasing slight euphonic tone. The Z-foils were more just dead nuts neutral and a bit more resolving. I'd guess the AN silver tantalum version would be the best of both worlds. But that's just a guess. But personally, if I was doing a no holds barred build, I'd probably roll the dice and go with silver tants in critical spots.

I tried many others as well, and simple Mills wire wound were up there with the best to me. None of the carbon comp stuff was any good.

 

[bazelio]

Do you think replacing AN Kaisei caps with Mundorf MLGO HV is a good idea?

For electrolytics, I'd stay with AN. I think they're great.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Not sure if this comparison counts but thought I'd put across since I came across the name Vishay!

Been using CJ amplifiers for few decades, and along the way few years back I was very interested in one particular amplifier by AN, the Overture integrated. Class A operation with a healthy output of 32w using the wonderful EL34's. The sound and presentation driving Quads ESL2905's at the time was fantastic! Very wide soundstage with excellent depth, a sort of enveloping sound that wraps around you and fully immerses you in the listening experience. That particular amplifier used these resistors and high grade KSI caps, developed and designed by Kondo San. It was a very unique sound, bit coloured I may add and yet very musical. However, at the end I didn't finalise on the Overture, simply because I ventured towards the CLX's.

Now, heading back to CJ's amplifiers, I've noticed that in all their top level gear, including their SE offerings and upgrades, amongst the highly regarded Teflon caps used plus other specialised parts, they all incorporate Vishay resistors. This brings the performance closer to the real thing, such that the equipment gets out of the way and allows more of the music to flow. The dynamic behaviour, transient control and neutral affects of using Vishay's is marvellous! And so I stuck with CJ.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the AN stuff is no good or not upto par. This is just my preference and I believe it all depends on what you personally want from your system to be able to reproduce. Therefore, I think you would need to try these out or audition these components in one form or another, only then would you be able to evaluate which type you prefer.

After all, it's your listening experience and your inner satisfaction. I'm sure both of these types of parts / components are truly special, it's a matter of personal choice on which one you find yourself fully engaged with.

Cheers and have a good one,
RJ

 

[analogsa]

they all incorporate Vishay resistors.

Without specifiying the exact type this does not say much. Vishay is a giant, manufacturing thousands of resistor types, many of which developed by previously independent companies. Their resistors also cover a substantial pricing range, perhaps spanning across as much as 60db

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Analogsa,

That's exactly why I started my post as saying whether it is or not a fair comparison...
All I wanted to do was share the experience I've had with what CJ uses in all their SE version upgrades, using Bulk Metal foil Vishay resistors and the experience I've had with the Kondo Audio Overture amplifier.

I'm no expert as compared to you, so perhaps you could call Jeff Fischel and ask him what exact type of resistors he's using and then compared that against your expertise knowledge...

Thanks for dismissing me mate, much appreciated.
Have a good one, RJ

 

[ayreman]

Not sure if this comparison counts but thought I'd put across since I came across the name Vishay!

Been using CJ amplifiers for few decades, and along the way few years back I was very interested in one particular amplifier by AN, the Overture integrated. Class A operation with a healthy output of 32w using the wonderful EL34's. The sound and presentation driving Quads ESL2905's at the time was fantastic! Very wide soundstage with excellent depth, a sort of enveloping sound that wraps around you and fully immerses you in the listening experience. That particular amplifier used these resistors and high grade KSI caps, developed and designed by Kondo San. It was a very unique sound, bit coloured I may add and yet very musical. However, at the end I didn't finalise on the Overture, simply because I ventured towards the CLX's.

Now, heading back to CJ's amplifiers, I've noticed that in all their top level gear, including their SE offerings and upgrades, amongst the highly regarded Teflon caps used plus other specialised parts, they all incorporate Vishay resistors. This brings the performance closer to the real thing, such that the equipment gets out of the way and allows more of the music to flow. The dynamic behaviour, transient control and neutral affects of using Vishay's is marvellous! And so I stuck with CJ.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the AN stuff is no good or not upto par. This is just my preference and I believe it all depends on what you personally want from your system to be able to reproduce. Therefore, I think you would need to try these out or audition these components in one form or another, only then would you be able to evaluate which type you prefer.

After all, it's your listening experience and your inner satisfaction. I'm sure both of these types of parts / components are truly special, it's a matter of personal choice on which one you find yourself fully engaged with.

Cheers and have a good one,
RJ

Thank you for your input, RJ! I don't like coloured sound and I've read enough accounts where people say that AN products colour the sound. Many audiophiles like it. I don't. So, I am leaning toward using top Vishays throughout. Where "naked" Z-Foils can't be used because of power rating limitations (around 50% of total positions), I'll use CMF Series and for the highest power rating (2W, 3W and up) - MRA Series. Compared to the rubbish they put in my preamp at the factory, this will be a major breakthrough. The audiophile itch has got the better of me now. Time to set the wheels in motion

 

[bazelio]

Thank you for your input, RJ! I don't like coloured sound and I've read enough accounts where people say that AN products colour the sound. Many audiophiles like it. I don't. So, I am leaning toward using top Vishays throughout. Where "naked" Z-Foils can't be used because of power rating limitations (around 50% of total positions), I'll use CMF Series and for the highest power rating (2W, 3W and up) - MRA Series. Compared to the rubbish they put in my preamp at the factory, this will be a major breakthrough. The audiophile itch has got the better of me now. Time to set the wheels in motion

You can always go with 2 Naked Foils in parallel to get the power rating up to where it needs to be. Obviously double the resistance of the parallel components, if you do.

 

[sbo6]

I guarantee you'll hear quite an improvement, let us know how it turns out and enjoy!

 

[ayreman]

I guarantee you'll hear quite an improvement...

You mean if I implement my own plan described in post #28? Or if I follow bazelio's recommendation (see post #29) and use naked Z-Foils everywhere?

 

[sbo6]

I was referring to the naked Z foils, if you value neutrality that's the way to go IMO.

 

[Salectric]

I have tried many, many different resistors in my tube electronics including naked Z foils and all Audio Note tantalums—magnetics, non-magnetics and Silver Tantalums. Of all these, the very best sounding resistors for most applications are Audio Note 2w Silver Tantalums. But I wouldn’t say they are the best everywhere. For grid stopper positions I find Riken carbon film are the very best. I also like Mills wirewound resistors for many plate load spots.

The naked Vishays are also very good but they sound quite different. They have excellent detail and speed but they are slightly cool sounding. On the other hand all of the AN Tantalums even the 2w Silvers are on the warm side.

The bottom line is resistors all sound different, and the best sounding type in one position is not the same as with other positions. The idea of replacing ALL resistors in a given piece of equipment with a single resistor type makes no sense at all to me. As an example, in my phono preamp which is a D3a/5687 circuit I have tried numerous resistors in each position, and I selected the very best sounding ones for each spot regardless of cost. It has nude Vishays in the RIAA eq network, Mills 12w wirewound on the D3a plate, Rikens for gridstoppers, and 2w Silver Tantalums for all loading positions (input, Interstage and output).

By the way, different wattage resistors of the same resistor type also sound different. That’s why I specified 2 watt AN Silvers as the best. AN now has 1/2w Silver Tantalums but they don’t sound as good. The same pattern holds true with the AN Tantalums. For the magnetic Tantalums, the 2w sounds best, followed by 1w, with the 1/2w even further behind. For what it’s worth, I prefer the older 2w and 1w magnetic Tantalums over the current non-magnetic Tantalums (other than the 2w Silver non-magnetic which is in a class by itself).

 

[DaveC]

I have tried many, many different resistors in my tube electronics including naked Z foils and all Audio Note tantalums—magnetics, non-magnetics and Silver Tantalums. Of all these, the very best sounding resistors for most applications are Audio Note 2w Silver Tantalums. But I wouldn’t say they are the best everywhere. For grid stopper positions I find Riken carbon film are the very best. I also like Mills wirewound resistors for many plate load spots.

The naked Vishays are also very good but they sound quite different. They have excellent detail and speed but they are slightly cool sounding. On the other hand all of the AN Tantalums even the 2w Silvers are on the warm side.

The bottom line is resistors all sound different, and the best sounding type in one position is not the same as with other positions. The idea of replacing ALL resistors in a given piece of equipment with a single resistor type makes no sense at all to me. As an example, in my phono preamp which is a D3a/5687 circuit I have tried numerous resistors in each position, and I selected the very best sounding ones for each spot regardless of cost. It has nude Vishays in the RIAA eq network, Mills 12w wirewound on the D3a plate, Rikens for gridstoppers, and 2w Silver Tantalums for all loading positions (input, Interstage and output).

By the way, different wattage resistors of the same resistor type also sound different. That’s why I specified 2 watt AN Silvers as the best. AN now has 1/2w Silver Tantalums but they don’t sound as good. The same pattern holds true with the AN Tantalums. For the magnetic Tantalums, the 2w sounds best, followed by 1w, with the 1/2w even further behind. For what it’s worth, I prefer the older 2w and 1w magnetic Tantalums over the current non-magnetic Tantalums (other than the 2w Silver non-magnetic which is in a class by itself).

Thanks for the tip on the AN silver, I'll have to give them a shot in the next project. I'm sure I'll like them as my amps and preamps also use Riken (or Amtrans) carbon film gridstoppers, and Mills wirewound in PS and plate. You obviously have great tastes!

 

[ayreman]

The naked Vishays... are slightly cool sounding. On the other hand all of the AN Tantalums even the 2w Silvers are on the warm side.

Can you define "cool" and "warm"?

 

[Sablon Audio]

As well as the different wattages of Silver tants, Audio Note have recently launched a new Niobium model though I don’t have any feedback on how it sounds.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/audionote-niobium-resistors.html

 

[Salectric]

As well as the different wattages of Silver tants, Audio Note have recently launched a new Niobium model though I don’t have any feedback on how it sounds.

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/components/audionote-niobium-resistors.html

Release of the new niobium resistors was delayed due to the COVID pandemic. Peter Q posted this on the Steve Hoffman forum in May. He said development will require a $200,000 capital investment, and that will have to wait until things are more normal. Frankly I think it’s amazing that Audio Note invests so much in developing their own component parts. They use their own proprietary resistors, capacitors, wire and transformers as opposed to just buying off-the-shelf products. Even though I don’t own any AN electronics, I use their cables exclusively and all of my electronics use AN Silver tantalum resistors.

 

[Salectric]

Thanks for the tip on the AN silver, I'll have to give them a shot in the next project. I'm sure I'll like them as my amps and preamps also use Riken (or Amtrans) carbon film gridstoppers, and Mills wirewound in PS and plate. You obviously have great tastes!

Likewise!

By the way, if you’re using Amtrans as gridstoppers you really should try replacing them with Rikens which sound much better. As I am sure you know, Rikens were discontinued a number of years ago but for a long time were still widely available. That changed recently and they are now hard to source in specific values. But the good news is gridstopper values are not critical. You can use anything reasonably close to the specified value so it should still be possible to use Rikens as gridstoppers for a few more years.

 

[ayreman]

So, Salectric, will you define "cool" and "warm" or not? Or am I asking too much?

 

[Salectric]

So, Salectric, will you define "cool" and "warm" or not? Or am I asking too much?

I ignore trolls.