Vishay Z-Foil vs Audio Note Non-Magnetic Resistors

[ayreman]

I ignore trolls.

By the same token I ignore posts by those who don't know what they are talking about.

 

[kach22i]

I looked up Z-Foil and they describe it as something in their Bulk Metal Foil resistor line.

Not tin to dampen out vibrations?

Something heavier?

These metal film resistors (see below) are going to be better than what I have, just have to double check the tolerance.

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Vishay-Dale/CPF211R000JKB14?qs=r9s7qWT5I1UpUeXAc0r4NQ==

This is what a friend wrote to me a few years ago regarding my two SE100's........Quote

if you decide for carbon comp or metal film it should be carbon comp or metal film on all tube board and both amps......

You have to solder both sides to be sure.

Lift the resistors about 3mm of the board (use a shim for consistent job) before soldering.

This way the air circulates around the resistor cooling it better and promoting board longevity.

End Quote.

I've done a little more research and discovered an opinion that tube amp resistors should be rated to take 750v spikes. My first choice/link could tolerate less than half that voltage.

Link:
https://www.aikenamps.com/index.php/technical-q-a

Also some variation on using metal film verses metal oxide in some locations.

It seems like I'm going to be learning about my amp's circuit layout if I want to make use of this information.

One type of resistor everywhere might be tough to do. I have to do an inventory.

 

[kach22i]

If you can find a 3 or 5 watt just use that instead. The wattage is how much they can handle, so bigger is only really a problem if it's out of spec or too large physically.

Thanks, looks like most 3 watt resistors can take a lot more voltage that the 2 watt resistors, this may be important.

 

[Folsom]

Thanks, looks like most 3 watt resistors can take a lot more voltage that the 2 watt resistors, this may be important.

Wattage is voltage x current. More of either means more wattage. Resistor in spec can put out a lot of heat reliably, but what’s around them might not be able to take it.

 

[treitz3]

A few of my friends are very excited about the Path Audio resistors from Poland. They all say they are very neutral and natural sounding...

View attachment 66589

http://www.pathaudio.eu/

I just got some of these for my external speaker crossovers and for that exact reason. Looking forward to listening to them.

Tom

 

[ayreman]

I just got some of these for my external speaker crossovers and for that exact reason. Looking forward to listening to them.

Tom

This thread is not about Path Audio resistors. This thread is about Vishay VAR vs AN.

 

[treitz3]

My apologies, ayreman. My response was about a post on this thread. Since you mod things as I do, I thought you and others may have been interested. I was wrong and for that, I apologize.

Tom

 

[kach22i]

In my opinion a thread like this is destined to embody a general scope of all resistor types. Or at least use in different stages of amp and preamp circuit design.

If I or others have hijacked it, there was no malice or ill intent.

Maybe there is a line between loudspeaker crossovers, and that line could stand clarification where and when introduced.

As I understand from reading in another forum upping the wattage value can alter the sensitivity (at low volume levels?) but should do no harm unless one of several models of Japanese solid state receivers from the 1970's in which the resistors may act as fuses to protect more expensive parts.

And perhaps CAT tube amps where a tube goes bad and the adjacent resistor is sacrificial.

 

[ayreman]

treitz3 and kach22i, your apologies are accepted! Hope you appreciate why I try to keep this thread rather focused. The thing is modding ARC RafAnn is not something that should be undertaken lightly. The idea is to make things better, not worse. Thus, when starting this thread, my goal was to collect as much accurate information as possible from fellow-modders and to do it as quickly as possible so that I could proceed with the project in hand. My speakers were modded 3 years ago - hence my lack of interest in crossover resistors. Just trying to keep this thread uncluttered, focused and as informative on the subject as possible. Hope you understand...

At this stage I've decided to avoid using AN altogether. Want to stick to Vishay throughout. To fill 1 and 1.5W positions will be using Z204 and Z205. My question is did anyone get a chance to compare the sound of Z204/Z205 vs VAR?

 

[kach22i]

Ayreman, not to sidetrack but are you going to be doubling up any of these to get the resistance and wattage you need?

If so, do you know what happens to the peak voltage handling rating?

Just asking because the Z-foil and Vishay Zero TCR resistors I've looked at are in the 200V-300V range, which seems offhand to be way short of 750V advocated in a website I linked to earlier.

For myself, I have to open my unit up and read those color coded resistor stripes again because I do not recall the voltage, only the Ohm and Watt numbers.

EDIT:

Found an old thread if yours.

https://www.whatsbestforum.com/thre...anniversary-and-or-reference-10-preamp.24319/

Are you running stock tubes in your preamp?

Does anyone know if this should make a difference in resistor selection?

 

[analogsa]

Thanks, looks like most 3 watt resistors can take a lot more voltage that the 2 watt resistors, this may be important.

Series connection of two resistors effectively doubles the voltage range

 

[ayreman]

All resistors are here and PS unit is already done. Next up - pre unit. All the details and pics are in my thread here:
https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/modding-my-arc-ref-anniversary.27714/page-4

 

[MrMoscode]

Looks like this thread has cooled off.

I just want to point out you can put 200 volt 1/2 watt resistors in series and you will get double the voltage rating AND double the wattage. Of course, halve the final value for each resistor. I.e. 2 100k 1/2 watters rated at 200V each will give you 200k at 1 watt and a 400 volt rating when connected in series. I think this is a better way of achieving higher wattage. I've used the Texas Components Vishay look alikes because TC is a second source supplier for military industry. Same resistor. Price of these last time I looked was around $7.50 each. They are made to order. Very friendly to work with and no minimums.

 

[Cagomat]

Likewise!

By the way, if you’re using Amtrans as gridstoppers you really should try replacing them with Rikens which sound much better. As I am sure you know, Rikens were discontinued a number of years ago but for a long time were still widely available. That changed recently and they are now hard to source in specific values. But the good news is gridstopper values are not critical. You can use anything reasonably close to the specified value so it should still be possible to use Rikens as gridstoppers for a few more years.

Grid stoppers are generally a bad sounding solution, best solution I found are 6 hole ferrite beads from Würth. I use this on D3a plate and grids and they sound better than any resistor Mouser part ? 710-74275143 for example

 

[latheofheaven]

Hello All! I am brand new to this forum and I see that you fellows REALLY know your stuff!

I was researching Audiophile quality resistors, but not for the more intricate ways you guys are wiring circuit boards and such. What I wanted to ask you all, and I'm quite SURE you know about these things is that I have a used Ayon Orion II tube amp. It sounds great in my system and is my very first tube amp in over 40 years of pretending to be an Audiophile.

However, just today I noticed that one of the channels is slightly louder than the other. I ran the auto-bias test and it ran through it all and didn't report any of the tubes as being in trouble or bad. I'm thinking that maybe it is something inside the amp. Now, this thing weighs like 90 pounds, so it would cost me hundreds of dollars to ship it anywhere which I honestly just don't have. I am a very modest, somewhat DIY Audiophile whose system is somewhat unique, but not really expensive. I'll include a link to my Soundroom/System/Collection below.

So, I'm thinking that if there IS something internally wrong, but it only causes a slight, maybe around a 3db difference, MAYBE I thought I could get a high grade Audiophile resistor of the right kind and just throw it on the speaker wire to balance out the volume difference. So, that is what led me to this thread and WOW, I have learned a lot. I do see though that many of your applications are for very low wattage, right? Well, IDK of course exactly, but I would GUESS that since the Ayon puts out 60 w/side of tube power, wouldn't I need a resistor that could handle that? I see too that wiring resistors in series seems to add their wattage and voltage and such. But, I truly don't know enough about this stuff to know really how to do it or how that affects the combined ohmage.

But, if the quality of the resistor and its type is high enough, wouldn't that be a nice, simple, and inexpensive solution? If so, may I ask please what you gentlemen would suggest for the type and value of the resistor(s)? I guess the only information I can give you is the output of the Ayon and what I THINK the volume difference is between channels. Could you also please kindly suggest the ohmage value I should use either with one resistor or combined that I should use to drop the volume approximately 3 db's? What range of values should I be looking at to adjust the volume. I'm thinking that I will likely have to try a least a couple of different values to get the channels balanced since I don't know exactly the difference in volume, I'm just guessing.

Would I have to put like 2 of these together or something like that:
Mills

I really appreciate whatever help and input you can give me. I would LOVE to try simply throwing a nice, high-quality resistor on the speaker line and call it a day (IF I can get away with it! )

Soundroom/System/Collection

Thanks kindly!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Welcome to WBF, latheofheaven!

 

[latheofheaven]

Welcome to WBF, latheofheaven!

Thank you sir!

 

[Salectric]

Hello All! I am brand new to this forum and I see that you fellows REALLY know your stuff!

I was researching Audiophile quality resistors, but not for the more intricate ways you guys are wiring circuit boards and such. What I wanted to ask you all, and I'm quite SURE you know about these things is that I have a used Ayon Orion II tube amp. It sounds great in my system and is my very first tube amp in over 40 years of pretending to be an Audiophile.

However, just today I noticed that one of the channels is slightly louder than the other. I ran the auto-bias test and it ran through it all and didn't report any of the tubes as being in trouble or bad. I'm thinking that maybe it is something inside the amp. Now, this thing weighs like 90 pounds, so it would cost me hundreds of dollars to ship it anywhere which I honestly just don't have. I am a very modest, somewhat DIY Audiophile whose system is somewhat unique, but not really expensive. I'll include a link to my Soundroom/System/Collection below.

So, I'm thinking that if there IS something internally wrong, but it only causes a slight, maybe around a 3db difference, MAYBE I thought I could get a high grade Audiophile resistor of the right kind and just throw it on the speaker wire to balance out the volume difference. So, that is what led me to this thread and WOW, I have learned a lot. I do see though that many of your applications are for very low wattage, right? Well, IDK of course exactly, but I would GUESS that since the Ayon puts out 60 w/side of tube power, wouldn't I need a resistor that could handle that? I see too that wiring resistors in series seems to add their wattage and voltage and such. But, I truly don't know enough about this stuff to know really how to do it or how that affects the combined ohmage.

But, if the quality of the resistor and its type is high enough, wouldn't that be a nice, simple, and inexpensive solution? If so, may I ask please what you gentlemen would suggest for the type and value of the resistor(s)? I guess the only information I can give you is the output of the Ayon and what I THINK the volume difference is between channels. Could you also please kindly suggest the ohmage value I should use either with one resistor or combined that I should use to drop the volume approximately 3 db's? What range of values should I be looking at to adjust the volume. I'm thinking that I will likely have to try a least a couple of different values to get the channels balanced since I don't know exactly the difference in volume, I'm just guessing.

Would I have to put like 2 of these together or something like that:
Mills

I really appreciate whatever help and input you can give me. I would LOVE to try simply throwing a nice, high-quality resistor on the speaker line and call it a day (IF I can get away with it! )

Soundroom/System/Collection

Thanks kindly!

It’s very unlikely your volume difference has anything to do with resistor tolerances. Far more likely is that one or more tubes is wearing out. Or perhaps a tube in one channel was replaced with a different brand from its counterpart in the other channel. The very first step is to swap the tubes between channels; in other words, move each Left channel tube to the Right channel in the same place and see if the channel balance problem changes. If the balance problem changes channels, you have a bad tube or a mismatched tube somewhere.. You can then determine which tube is responsible by swapping just one tube at a time to isolate the balance problem to the particular tube or tubes.

If the balance problem persists and you want to correct it with a circuitry change, you would use an attenuation resistor network on the inputs of your amps, not on the outputs, so you would not need high-wattage resistors for that. In any case, any such circuitry alterations would require a knowledgeable tech.

 

[bazelio]

It’s very unlikely your volume difference has anything to do with resistor tolerances. Far more likely is that one or more tubes is wearing out. Or perhaps a tube in one channel was replaced with a different brand from its counterpart in the other channel. The very first step is to swap the tubes between channels; in other words, move each Left channel tube to the Right channel in the same place and see if the channel balance problem changes. If the balance problem changes channels, you have a bad tube or a mismatched tube somewhere.. You can then determine which tube is responsible by swapping just one tube at a time to isolate the balance problem to the particular tube or tubes.

If the balance problem persists and you want to correct it with a circuitry change, you would use an attenuation resistor network on the inputs of your amps, not on the outputs, so you would not need high-wattage resistors for that. In any case, any such circuitry alterations would require a knowledgeable tech.

+1 to this

 

[latheofheaven]

Thank you gentlemen! I just thought that IF the situation was not a tube, perhaps a simple fix would be to lower the output on one channel that way, by putting a resistor inline with the speaker wire. I KNOW that with your knowledge that probably seems really a clumsy way, but wouldn't it work though since that is all I really need to do, to balance the volume on both sides. That would preclude me from having to drag that 90 pound behemoth around Whada-U-Think, a crude but viable fix, IF it isn't a tube...?

***EDIT

I mean, IF it is the amp, are there any serious negatives why I shouldn't do that, just to help me understand the mechanics, thanks!