Visit to Henk van der Hoeven -- Apogee Acoustics Re-builder/Restorer

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

Scintillas power requirement is stability into 0.82 ohms, and 1225w at that on peaks. Several have commented on the Lamm amps, but personally I not heard them on Scintillas.

 

[christoph]

Scintillas power requirement is stability into 0.82 ohms, and 1225w at that on peaks. Several have commented on the Lamm amps, but personally I not heard them on Scintillas.

You should give them a try
Sounds excellent

 

[BruceD]

I am right on the edge of release of a new serious Diva, the first pair is going to a client with 400w tube power amps actually...

Sounds like he's using Ayons?--they should get them motoring!

BruceD

 

[martin778]

I wonder how my Emitter II E would do with Scintillas, it's rated as 1400W/1Ohm but the manual states a minimum of 1.5 Ohms to be used.

 

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

Sounds like he's using Ayons?--they should get them motoring!

BruceD

astute The new Apogee Diva A9 is a nice tube friendly load, nominal 4, absolute lowest 2.64, highest 6.8, and sounds like a single driver. I have yet to hear the Ayons but in theory they will be a perfect match...

Graz

 

[Zero000]

astute The new Apogee Diva A9 is a nice tube friendly load, nominal 4, absolute lowest 2.64, highest 6.8, and sounds like a single driver. I have yet to hear the Ayons but in theory they will be a perfect match...

Graz

Hm.

I had the Ayons on my Duettas. They kept shutting down on bass transients.

Jon had the same pair on Divas. They kept shutting down.

I spoke to the Ayon tech about it at Munich. He basically had nothing to say.

On the 4 Ohm tap in pentode mode they just might survive. But it is marginal.

Unless of course the amps were faulty. Which isn't impossible. But they self test on each boot up and they didn't ever fail that.

 

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

What Ayons did you have, the 400w ones?

 

[bonzo75]

What Ayons did you have, the 400w ones?

Yes. Or 300. They are the Ayon Orthos XS. They shut down in triode mode, not pentode. They were mine, I wanted to try them on duettas so bought them as shipped to Justin. I didn't like what they did so sold them. SS is the only way to go with apogees, and hybrids like lamm, no matter how many times brad posts otherwise. I also heard the AR 250 on the divas, hopeless

 

[Zero000]

They were 400W in pentode, 250W in triode.

Well that's the claim but I have difficulty believing it.

I don't know whether they survived Divas in pentode ask Jon Graz.

 

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

I believe this is the amp my client has https://6moons.com/audioreviews/ayon8/2.html

 

[bonzo75]

I believe this is the amp my client has https://6moons.com/audioreviews/ayon8/2.html

I have visited Joel, who wrote that review and is a member of this forum. He was the one who suggested the Ayon so I bought it. His compares apart from vivid were done on Maggie 20.7

 

[Zero000]

I had it for around three months Graz.

It is a nice sounding amp. I didn't feel compelled enough to buy it though on SQ terms and especially with the usability issue in triode mode.

Bob Marley's Natural Mystic was a real torture test for it.

 

[Zero000]

Sorry in the interests of accuracy they would shutdown in pentode mode on the 8 Ohm taps.

The only mode that didn't shutdown was pentode 4 Ohm.

 

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

That is a big thing - and it's good that you have mentioned this. The taps are there for good reason, and the 4 ohm tap with the generally benign Duetta Sig load and efficiency would have produced better results for certain in a happy range where the amp would be sounding it's best and still able to drive the speaker to full power with headroom to spare. On a Duetta Signature with standard xover parts, and an incorrect 8 ohm tap setting on most valve amps, the amp would see less than 1.5 ohms in places, not what the designers would want!

4 ohms is the ideal tap for the Duetta Signatures, Divas (classic) also.

The new Diva A9's are as flat an impedance plot as I have seen on a 3-way panel, near perfect 4 ohms for most of the range, and all of the high current sections. With the first client's amp being a high powered valve design absolute crossover refinement pas paramount. The crossover for this has had a considerable amount of time and simulation followed up with real world testing especially to work on the load/efficiency aspect of design, enjoyable. Final design was #215

 

[Zero000]

Well as the owner should discover, the Ayon sounds best running in pentode mode anyway, at least it did driving Duettas.

I fired it up a lot whilst I had it and enjoyed it.

I just hope he isn't too disappointed about not being able to really enjoy triode mode.

Those A9s. Would love to hear them without the expense of a flight to Brisbane!

 

[Graz - APOGEE ACOUSTICS]

A trip to the Sunshine Coast doesn't need ulterior motives of audio believe me!! And is comparable to the shipping cost of speakers, backed up with several resorts close by!! I have met many clients this way, enjoyable. Making speakers for a person is better than for stock to be sold.

Apogee Diva A9. Like all our metal chassis speakers, a lot goes into them. Strictly for Apogee experienced connoisseurs who know what they like and want more or most of it. Following typical industry markup they would cost 3x their price, and that is not fair for the clients. Being a metal chassis they are very heavy (500+kg per pair), and they require a large room, not something to swap in and out for the odd demo. The likelihood of dealers in the UK having these on hand for the odd pair per year sale is near zero, an Installer demo possible but not negotiated at present.

Such speakers would never be med/mass production, so few will hear them, fewer will own them. Perfect for our clients, at that stage of client they are way past the dealer-library game, and understand there is no room full of boxes for sale for a low-ball. Commissioned art, built to order. They don't want something bought off of a review-de-jour. They trust their ears, and have confidence in our work and their ears. Speakers we make have an exceptionally high retention rate, they have an effect of ending the owners past upgrade habit - as intended : )

 

[bonzo75]

On the Ayon the difference in purity of tone for classical instruments between triode and pentode was quite large, the pentode was nowhere as good in that respect and made it less enjoyable despite the ability to drive more than the triode. This was not the case when I compared the absolare integrated in triode and pentode mode on another speaker. While the pentode mode did not have the same purity, the difference was not that high and the greater drive made it more enjoyable.

 

[christoph]

On the Ayon the difference in purity of tone for classical instruments between triode and pentode was quite large, the pentode was nowhere as good in that respect and made it less enjoyable despite the ability to drive more than the triode. This was not the case when I compared the absolare integrated in triode and pentode mode on another speaker. While the pentode mode did not have the same purity, the difference was not that high and the greater drive made it more enjoyable.

So this amp would be suitable for people with very versatile music tastes:
You have the finesse for singer-songwriter, "girl with guitar", small classic ensembles and stuff like that in Triode mode
and you have the heft for electronic music and full throttle all in big Symphony in Pentode mode.

 

[bonzo75]

So this amp would be suitable for people with very versatile music tastes:
You have the finesse for singer-songwriter, "girl with guitar", small classic ensembles and stuff like that in Triode mode
and you have the heft for electronic music and full throttle all in big Symphony in Pentode mode.

Yes but then I wanted the symphony without the loss in purity. The loss of purity is a no go. Flexible is good only if various options presented are good, not if neither option cuts it properly

 

[christoph]

A trip to the Sunshine Coast doesn't need ulterior motives of audio believe me!! And is comparable to the shipping cost of speakers, backed up with several resorts close by!! I have met many clients this way, enjoyable. Making speakers for a person is better than for stock to be sold.

Apogee Diva A9. Like all our metal chassis speakers, a lot goes into them. Strictly for Apogee experienced connoisseurs who know what they like and want more or most of it. Following typical industry markup they would cost 3x their price, and that is not fair for the clients. Being a metal chassis they are very heavy (500+kg per pair), and they require a large room, not something to swap in and out for the odd demo. The likelihood of dealers in the UK having these on hand for the odd pair per year sale is near zero, an Installer demo possible but not negotiated at present.

Such speakers would never be med/mass production, so few will hear them, fewer will own them. Perfect for our clients, at that stage of client they are way past the dealer-library game, and understand there is no room full of boxes for sale for a low-ball. Commissioned art, built to order. They don't want something bought off of a review-de-jour. They trust their ears, and have confidence in our work and their ears. Speakers we make have an exceptionally high retention rate, they have an effect of ending the owners past upgrade habit - as intended : )

Hi Graz

Those speakers sound extremely interesting, congrats!

I have one naive question, though:
Will the delicate ribbons and panels be even better protected from being touched than the later orignal ones with that "bugscreen"?

I'm still a huge Apogee fan