Visit to Henk van der Hoeven -- Apogee Acoustics Re-builder/Restorer

[christoph]

Yes but then I wanted the symphony without the loss in purity. The loss of purity is a no go. Flexible is good only if various options presented are good, not if neither option cuts it properly

You are right.
It might not be optimal for you specifically because all-in-mayhem-tutti Symphony is your most important genre but very few people are like you

 

[Zero000]

As a non-classical listener in three months and far greater exposure than Ked ever had to his own amps, I found triode mode had no advantages under any circumstances really.

Even with the stuff you might expect it to do better with. Like acoustic guitars etc.

A high current amp like a Parasound A21 would blow even pentode mode out of the water when it came to dynamics.

Yet in 4 Ohm pentode, there was a kind of nice relaxed ease about the way the amp went about things that I found enjoyable.

I think Ked spent around 2-3 hours listening to the Ayon before he decided he didn't like it.

 

[bonzo75]

You are right.
It might not be optimal for you specifically because all-in-mayhem-tutti Symphony is your most important genre but very few people are like you

It won't do rock either, electronica

 

[spiritofmusic]

Graz's Diva A9 looks like a way easier amp demand? Much closer to Justin's Duettas than Scintillas?

Critically, closer to Alsyvox ease? Am I right on that?

 

[bonzo75]

As a non-classical listener in three months and far greater exposure than Ked ever had to his own amps, I found triode mode had no advantages under any circumstances really.

Even with the stuff you might expect it to do better with. Like acoustic guitars etc.

A high current amp like a Parasound A21 would blow even pentode mode out of the water when it came to dynamics.

Yet in 4 Ohm pentode, there was a kind of nice relaxed ease about the way the amp went about things that I found enjoyable.

I think Ked spent around 2-3 hours listening to the Ayon before he decided he didn't like it.

The parasound was better on dynamics as well as bringing apogees to life but lacked tone. That's why I decided I didn't like both. 2 - 3 hours is sufficient if you have the right listening points and the equipment is run in. Some people go entire lifetime running 211s clipping apogees and not hearing what is obvious in 5 minutes

 

[christoph]

It won't do rock either, electronica

That's a bummer, then.
But if Electronica and Rock would be the main dish, I would probably go Lamm hybrids

 

[christoph]

Graz's Diva A9 looks like a way easier amp demand? Much closer to Justin's Duettas than Scintillas?

All other Apogees (apart from the FullRange maybe) are VERY VERY far away from the Scintillas when it comes to amp requirements

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, why would you buy Scintillas when Divas available? Easier to drive surely swings it?

Ostensibly a better spkr than Scintilla? Other than size ie more manageable height, why is anyone picking Scintilla over Diva?

And w Diva A9 approx same price as Alsyvox Boticelli, how do these two products compare and contrast?

 

[bonzo75]

So, why would you buy Scintillas when Divas available? Easier to drive surely swings it?

Ostensibly a better spkr than Scintilla? Other than size ie more manageable height, why is anyone picking Scintilla over Diva?

And w Diva A9 approx same price as Alsyvox Boticelli, how do these two products compare and contrast?

Diva is not better than scintilla unless you are talking about these special divas they might be

 

[spiritofmusic]

What do "standard Graz modded" Scintillas give you over "standard Graz modded" Divas?

To make the absolute lack of choice of amps for <1 Ohm Scintillas still seal the deal over Divas.

 

[bonzo75]

What do "standard Graz modded" Scintillas give you over "standard Graz modded" Divas?

To make the absolute lack of choice of amps for <1 Ohm Scintillas still seal the deal over Divas.

No you just put on a Krell or something. Choice of amps is very clear for scintilla, while for divas each audiophile is trying to be extremely innovative trying SETs, push pull, biamping, everything possible. Anyway this has been discussed so many times on every apogee thread. By reports the 4 ohm scintilla was never as good as the 1 ohm one, so the logic that easier to drive is better doesn't necessarily hold true. But then I heard one scintilla sound excellent and two not at all. The other two were not properly driven though.

 

[spiritofmusic]

And why would you buy Scintillas and not install them with one of the hugely restricted choice of amps?It's not as if you don't know what you're taking on.

Jon's Scintilla owner is even stressing over levels of Gryphon amps that are suitable.

 

[bonzo75]

And why would you buy Scintillas and not install them with one of the hugely restricted choice of amps?It's not as if you don't know what you're taking on.

Jon's Scintilla owner is even stressing over levels of Gryphon amps that are suitable.

That person hadn't heard a scintilla. There are many people not sure what to run any particular component with, because they have never heard how the component sounds. Like koetsu owners reading on web about the sound and then not having an FR to mount it on. That said theoretically he has done very well to get a mephisto. And his stress levels are being communicated by you, it's the equivalent of saying Keith is buying a YG and stressing what amps to use with it. Audiophiles get excited when they have a speaker coming their way after a two year build, that's not stress, that's excitement, so there is no point using such theory to guess how scintilla sounds

 

[christoph]

So, why would you buy Scintillas when Divas available? Easier to drive surely swings it?

Ostensibly a better spkr than Scintilla? Other than size ie more manageable height, why is anyone picking Scintilla over Diva?

And w Diva A9 approx same price as Alsyvox Boticelli, how do these two products compare and contrast?

I'm yet to hear a Diva that I like, while my ex-Scintillas were absolutely breathtaking!
Many of the Apogee Connaisseurs prefer the Scintilla over the Diva, by far
But that does not include the new Diva A9 that obviously extremely few poeple have heard yet.
I heard the Boticelli several times and loved them each time

 

[Zero000]

The parasound was better on dynamics as well as bringing apogees to life but lacked tone. That's why I decided I didn't like both. 2 - 3 hours is sufficient if you have the right listening points and the equipment is run in. Some people go entire lifetime running 211s clipping apogees and not hearing what is obvious in 5 minutes

Yeah the A21 has no tone. It's a real onslaught of muscle though. Preferred the 211s at the end of the day and sold it.

Christoph uses even less power than my 211s 170 Watt peak capability I believe. He MUST be SUPERDEAF

 

[bonzo75]

Yeah the A21 has no tone. It's a real onslaught of muscle though. Preferred the 211s at the end of the day and sold it.

Christoph uses even less power than my 211s 170 Watt peak capability I believe. He MUST be SUPERDEAF

The lamm hybrids have a lot of drive. Must be the current.

 

[Zero000]

I'm yet to hear a Diva that I like, while my ex-Scintillas were absolutely breathtaking!
Many of the Apogee Connaisseurs prefer the Scintilla over the Diva, by far
But that does not include the new Diva A9 that obviously extremely few poeple have heard yet.
I heard the Boticelli several times and loved them each time

If Graz sends me some A9s I will be his UK Apogee dealer for life.

Hell with Ked's advice I might even find the right amps. In 2316 years time.

 

[cjfrbw]

I have never heard a Diva, but it is by reputation the most difficult to set up and get right. However, when it is right, it is supposed to be magnificent.

I have heard the Scintilla a couple of times. My impression was it sounded very, very good, but that it is also an item of token audiophile mythology in its stature, likely inflated. It blew up a Krell in the day, with transistors popping like overcharged Christmas tree lights, so it has been an object of audiophile awe ever since. I guess audiophiles never forget the fireworks.

 

[spiritofmusic]

If Graz sends me some A9s I will be his UK Apogee dealer for life.

Hell with Ked's advice I might even find the right amps. In 2316 years time.

Easier to find the right wife.

 

[Zero000]

Hell I have had enough of this Apogee banter. I am just going to listen to my woefully inadequate system.

Lemme see... Pixies. Where is my mind?