Visit to Todd (sbnx) Avantgarde Trio G3 in Parker, Texas

[AudioHR]

I agree but many i speak with have little or none live music experience or what they have is in a hockey rink to a PA system.
If one has to experience then to me one’s observations don’t mean much ( to me)
Of course venues and artists vary but if your gear/system/room/set up is excellent you can enjoy and listen to all these various musical
pieces.
They should sound different yet recognizable as what they are.
i.e. A solo violin shouldn’t sound like it’s the size of stand up
bass or the piano sounds should emanate from the proper places of the instrument.
If the basics are wrong IMO it’s all wrong
I personally believe that most issues are in the system set up

True on the arena venues but some artist can even conquer these spaces. Still it is not real and most popular music live recordings are in the mix and not what you might have heard when you attended.

I do agree that if you pay attention to the setup of your system/gear/ room you can enjoy and listen to all musical pieces. You used the word excellent, what does that mean to you, spending the most or carefully purchasing components that compliment each other and then setting them up properly in the room you have (dedicated or otherwise)?

I get your point on the solo violin and the piano but where is the weak spot? Recording, system, room or setup. Perhaps all of the above.

 

[AudioHR]

brands in a room do not = results. systems are systems. and no system meets everyone's expectations. OTOH some pieces do maybe have more likelihood of a more musical result. but the assembler makes a big difference. and the evolution of that assembler. i had all the pieces for a number of years prior to putting things together to where i was satisfied. yet i'm sure where i'm at would not satisfy everyone.

So true on the importance of the assembler and the continuing evolution of that assembler!

 

[KeithR]

Ron and Todd, nice WBF video!

 

[Glide3]

This thread has been great and the video really puts a nice bow on top…nicely done!

 

[bonzo75]

I wonder how close the Mezzo plus spacehorns or plus custom subs would be to the AG Trios + space horns...

at the AG factory you can easily compare the mezzos connected to the same bass horns as the trios.

 

[nirodha]

Interesting...at 107db efficiency, I would have thought 27 watts with Ongaku would fill quite a room. but yes, it depends on whether one is trying to sit front row in front of a 110-piece orchestra playing Mahler's 5th or not...and whether the room is a room or a more like a professional rehearsal room in size.

The Robert Kodas are actually pure Class A Solid State (so 235 watts into 4ohms and 150 into 8)...but the AG Trios are 19 ohms resistance. I have read SS amps tend to reduce power by nearly 40% as they go up by double in impedance from their rated. Whereas many tubes amps maintain or nearly maintain their power rating into higher ohm speakers.

Listen to the iTron version in any G3 model, set up right and then save yourself a heap of money. If you want to flavor the sound (don’t know why but it is a choice), you can do it with your preamp.

 

[nirodha]

my goodness...that demands a very very VERY careful setup

I wonder how close the Mezzo plus spacehorns or plus custom subs would be to the AG Trios + space horns...

you know the Highlander slogan?

 

[tima]

There is so much discussion on realism and hifi. IMO HIFI will never be 100% realistic. We can try but ... Can any HIFI system actually reproduce a live orchestra and a jazz band in a club and a live performance by your favorite female vocalist and stadium rock and heavy metal and ... We can get close on some of it. HIFI has come a very, very long way in 100 years since we first had the beginnings of recoreded music. But we still have a loooong way to go to get to 100% realism.

It is unlikely that stereo will reach a point where we fail to distinquish reproduction from reality. I think of the sound of live acoustic music as more of a reference for gauging realism rather than as a goal.

 

[fbhifi]

Dear Sir,
Which non-itron amps did you hear, if you don't mind? thanks

Octave Jubilee 300B, Pathos Inpol Legacy, darTZeel NHB-468.

 

[LL21]

until you hear more power in direct compare. filling the room, and higher degrees of commanding the music, are different things. different levels of engagement. this is nothing i heard, just feedback from others who have heard it. there are no wrong answers as far as power, w/107db, only how much one expects.

especially considering the differences with the number of Spacehorns. a single Spacehorn and lowish power SET is a different thing musically compared to more power and multiple Spacehorns. both are legit, but go different places. and room size implications.

enough.....is rarely enough. too much is enough. just how i see things for my musical needs.

In my limited experience (certainly compared with Mike L), I agree with this.

- All amps have ups, downs, strengths, weaknesses (even if those weakness are more like they are simply just less strong in certain areas than others)...but one thing I have admired about Boulder is that when they control, I mean they really really REALLY control. And when they want to command a speaker to go bigger, scale higher and not fly off the rails, they really do it.

- Lets set aside personal preference around tonality, harmonics, or anything else (there are fans of Boulder sound and others not so much).

- I have to say Boulder gives a MASTERCLASS in GRIP...and scaling up the speaker to its nth degree without the speaker starting to 'shudder/shake' like speakers often do as they lose control at higher scales/volumes/dynamics. When any speaker I have ever heard with them gets switched on, there is an effortlessness that brings to life a new dynamic in the music that usually is just missing with amps that cannot deliver that level of masterful control and grip. And that effortless continues further in my experience volume-wise with Boulder than many many other amps. It is impressive.

- Again, I set aside all the comments [others] may have about Boulder's harmonic or tonal qualities or anything else.

- I refer simply to the commanding power, grip and sheer untapped reserves of the Boulders and what they can do for systems at room filling levels. And if you are looking for THAT, then I could imagine an SET with 107db efficiency horns not quite commanding a big room this way (40' x 30' x 15' like the one I heard the AG Trio G3s in). Loud? Yes. Commanding the room and the orchestra to super-scale/effortless dynamics? Not quite.

 

[LL21]

at the AG factory you can easily compare the mezzos connected to the same bass horns as the trios.

Thanks. Have you made the comparison by any chance? You travel quite a lot, so curious if you've been to AG.

 

[LL21]

Listen to the iTron version in any G3 model, set up right and then save yourself a heap of money. If you want to flavor the sound (don’t know why but it is a choice), you can do it with your preamp.

Thank you. Certainly makes the Robert Koda K15EX an easy keeper. The question is K160 v iTron. (BTW, a very very long-term fun bit of imagining, not a serious consideration today.)

I keep reading about, and have heard myself personally (the one and only time I heard them) a general hardness to the sound. All the detail, balance, and remarkable nuance and life-like air and space...but overall this touch of hardness to the sound which in life seems in 3D to be even more present than any system, but does not have that artifice of hardness.

It almost makes me wonder about the material of the horn and whether materials science would suggest the identical AG Trio G3 made of several different materials might find a solution that gives the soundwave or whatever an equally disciplined pathway that materials-wise is somehow just that bit more supple on the wave as it travels. (Interestingly, I have heard the paintjob on the AG horns makes a difference to the sound...polished gloss vs the matt finishes or something).

The alternative would be to consider the Robert Kodas or Dartzeel 468s and compare to iTron (which I learned from Ron's most excellent video is also pure Class A SS.)

 

[LL21]

Please enjoy my interview with Todd and his amazing system!

And please subscribe to the WhatsBestForum YouTube channel!

This was really excellent Ron. A great overview with some very specific insights into a truly unique system with exceptional attention to detail.

Off the recording, did Todd ever explain WHY he wanted Torus subs below 30hz or so and what it adds? I know he has written about it, but I wanted to ask in case he provided more 'color' about that element in his overall setup with the AG Trio G3s.

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks. Have you made the comparison by any chance? You travel quite a lot, so curious if you've been to AG.

yes I was there with Ron a few years back and before that in my own where I made the compare. I think there AG line below the trios is nothing like them. You will find a lot of negative comments from me on duos over the years, they all sun it up, with or without the bass horns

 

[LL21]

yes I was there with Ron a few years back and before that in my own where I made the compare. I think there AG line below the trios is nothing like them. You will find a lot of negative comments from me on duos over the years, they all sun it up, with or without the bass horns

Thanks...so presume you also mean the Mezzos (not Duo GT or whatever) is not comparable to the Trio either?

 

[bonzo75]

Thanks...so presume you also mean the Mezzos (not Duo GT or whatever) is not comparable to the Trio either?

no it’s not.

 

[LL21]

no it’s not.

Thanks and as Stan Lee used to say, " 'Nuff said."

 

[andromedaaudio]

Thank you. Certainly makes the Robert Koda K15EX an easy keeper. The question is K160 v iTron. (BTW, a very very long-term fun bit of imagining, not a serious consideration today.)

I keep reading about, and have heard myself personally (the one and only time I heard them) a general hardness to the sound. All the detail, balance, and remarkable nuance and life-like air and space...but overall this touch of hardness to the sound which in life seems in 3D to be even more present than any system, but does not have that artifice of hardness.

It almost makes me wonder about the material of the horn and whether materials science would suggest the identical AG Trio G3 made of several different materials might find a solution that gives the soundwave or whatever an equally disciplined pathway that materials-wise is somehow just that bit more supple on the wave as it travels. (Interestingly, I have heard the paintjob on the AG horns makes a difference to the sound...polished gloss vs the matt finishes or something).

The alternative would be to consider the Robert Kodas or Dartzeel 468s and compare to iTron (which I learned from Ron's most excellent video is also pure Class A SS.)

You sum up my thoughts exactly , i think the AG G3 horns could benefit from some sort of dampening compound in the horn.
Its the only slight downside of the G3 , i heard it also in Holland wheni listened to them
I also seem to hear this harshness in the video ron made (vocals .)

 

[andromedaaudio]

By the way Todds room / set up is fantastic .
I d indeed love to hear AC/DC reproduced by the system .

 

[nirodha]

no it’s not.

How many times have you heard them? Where did you hear the new Mezzo?