Visit to Todd (sbnx) Avantgarde Trio G3 in Parker, Texas

[LL21]

You sum up my thoughts exactly , i think the AG G3 horns could benefit from some sort of dampening compound in the horn.
Its the only slight downside of the G3 , i heard it also in Holland wheni listened to them
I also seem to hear this harshness in the video ron made (vocals .)

wow...thank you for weighing here. I know you design and produce, so helpful. I heard the same and (pure guesswork) seem to hear the same in videos. The one exception is Ultimate Audio's set of videos.

1. Is there anyway you could put an elastomer 'ring' around the OUTSIDE of the middle of the mouth of the horn? Would that even make sense?
2. I have read that people say the paint job of the horns matters and the matte finish sounds much better than the beautiful polished gloss. Does that make sense to you?

 

[andromedaaudio]

First of all if i understand correctly Todd has a CH DAC in his system and not the Wadax dac like in the Ultimate audio vid .
Wadax takes all hardness out of digital
Kondo always sweetens things but lacks on overall neutrality with other music being played imv.

Ps First you need to know what the avantgarde horns are made off before you could get an idea of what might produce the hardness or possible improvements

 

[fbhifi]

You sum up my thoughts exactly , i think the AG G3 horns could benefit from some sort of dampening compound in the horn.

Throw that can of worms down the rabbit hole and have fun!

 

[LL21]

First of all if i understand correctly Todd has a CH DAC in his system and not the Wadax dac like in the Ultimate audio vid .
Wadax takes all hardness out of digital
Kondo always sweetens things but lacks on overall neutrality with other music being played imv.

Ps First you need to know what the avantgarde horns are made off before you could get an idea of what might produce the hardness or possible improvements

Earlier AG horns were made of ABS plastic.

https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/287/index.html

"...The horn is made of ABS, a material chosen for its neutral resonance behavior, resistance to temperature- and humidity-induced changes, and because it can be manufactured to close tolerances—all factors that are critical to performance. The only downside is that the manufacturing process is quite expensive...."

 

[andromedaaudio]

Earlier AG horns were made of ABS plastic.

https://www.stereophile.com/floorloudspeakers/287/index.html

"...The horn is made of ABS, a material chosen for its neutral resonance behavior, resistance to temperature- and humidity-induced changes, and because it can be manufactured to close tolerances—all factors that are critical to performance. The only downside is that the manufacturing process is quite expensive...."

This is from sept 2000 lloyd im sure AG have not sit still since then and todays material might be completely different.
You could experiment with removable elastomers on the outside of the horn in a way they would not be permanent / do damage to the paint

 

[bonzo75]

How many times have you heard them? Where did you hear the new Mezzo?

not the new one. but I did not find any difference between the various duos, they were all equally bad and no similarity to the trios.

 

[LL21]

This is from sept 2000 lloyd im sure AG haver not sity still since then and todays material might be ccompletely different.
You could experiment with removable elastomers on the outside of the horn in a way they would not be permanent / do damage to the paint

Yes, I know...i am still trying to find any more current descriptions of the materials they are now using. nothing so far. And yes, could certainly do. I feel like an HRS-like material would be really good here.

 

[LL21]

not the new one. but I did not find any difference between the various duos, they were all equally bad and no similarity to the trios.

Fair enough. IOW, you're not particularly convinced their application of a horn design to the 2 bass cones will go go far enough to create a more consistent sound (ie, horn loaded bass) across the whole spectrum? (I think you found discontinuity with the smaller AG designs if I recall correctly?)

 

[bonzo75]

Fair enough. IOW, you're not particularly convinced their application of a horn design to the 2 bass cones will go go far enough to create a more consistent sound (ie, horn loaded bass) across the whole spectrum? (I think you found discontinuity with the smaller AG designs if I recall correctly?)

discontinuity, and they don’t really do the dynamics, immediacy, and midbass effect like the trios. Just don’t feel anything. Their midrange and highs also isn’t good either, with the trios I could really listen to vocal performances while with the duos I could barely sit.

with the lack of integration that whole effect collapses, of having proper weight to a performance and tonal body Vs the top driver shrieking and another producing disparate sounds

 

[LL21]

discontinuity, and they don’t really do the dynamics, immediacy, and midbass effect like the trios. Just don’t feel anything. Their midrange and highs also isn’t good either, with the trios I could really listen to vocal performances while with the duos I could barely sit.

with the lack of integration that whole effect collapses, of having proper weight to a performance and tonal body Vs the top driver shrieking and another producing disparate sounds

Clear. Thanks. The Trio G3s are the first horns to make me think hard. They were extremely impressive that one time I heard them, and in a way that elevated them possibly a category class above the Arrakis and either in or just below the Genesis Ones...in terms of scale, that is. And then from there, the extraordinary alacrity, coherence of sound, and innate ability to reveal extreme musical nuance and inflection were all very impressive. The footprint of them of course is also 5 times bigger than most flagship speakers.

 

[DasguteOhr]

wow...thank you for weighing here. I know you design and produce, so helpful. I heard the same and (pure guesswork) seem to hear the same in videos. The one exception is Ultimate Audio's set of videos.

1. Is there anyway you could put an elastomer 'ring' around the OUTSIDE of the middle of the mouth of the horn? Would that even make sense?
2. I have read that people say the paint job of the horns matters and the matte finish sounds much better than the beautiful polished gloss. Does that make sense to you?

Nice setup

 

[bonzo75]

, the extraordinary alacrity, coherence of sound, and innate ability to reveal extreme musical nuance and inflection

You will find this very difficult to beat commercially.

 

[LL21]

You will find this very difficult to beat commercially.

Thanks. Without the benefit of your expansive level of listening, within my own sphere of listening, I 100% agree. That is why I have found it so compelling in a way I have yet to come across in many many years.

 

[bonzo75]

Lloyd’s Kondo trios video captures well the weight of the trios that integrates with accompanies the vocals and the piano

 

[LL21]

Lloyd’s Kondo trios video captures well the weight of the trios that integrates with accompanies the vocals and the piano

Thanks! Very helpful.

 

[bonzo75]

Nice setup

not really because no bass horns

 

[LL21]

not really because no bass horns

Interesting...I noticed that (no spacehorns which are set up for 120hz downwards in the AG Trio G3 design). Believe it or not, I had a fleeting but similar thought recently due to the enormous space requirement (pardon the pun) of the AG bass units:

- AG Trio G3 main horns only + dual Funk 18.2s from 120hz down
- Yes, Funks are some of the lowest distortion, flatest subwoofer performers from 200hz down
- I have spoken with someone/designer who tested the Funks (his favorite bass is FLH and considers FLH without peer in true bass quality)...and he said he considers the dual 18.2 the closest he has ever heard to FLH in performance and character
- Even then, the 'exact qualities' of that bass have to be super-super-coherent with the main AG horns
- And then the footprint of the speaker setup (AG main horns plus Funks) is probably not that much different anyway
- And at 120hz downwards...it is nowhere near the same as starting from 30hz down...where I DO believe the Funks would be a good addition to the Trio G3 setup

Lloyd

 

[DasguteOhr]

not really because no bass horns

I bet you have never heard such bass in your life as the tyrexx produces. My recommendation, listen to it judge then

 

[bonzo75]

I bet you have never heard such bass in your life as the tyrexx produces. My recommendation, listen to it judge then

so it automatically integrates with the trios at the right level?

 

[DasguteOhr]

View attachment 127446

Interesting...I noticed that (no spacehorns which are set up for 120hz downwards in the AG Trio G3 design). Believe it or not, I had a fleeting but similar thought recently due to the enormous space requirement (pardon the pun) of the AG bass units:

- AG Trio G3 main horns only + dual Funk 18.2s from 120hz down
- Yes, Funks are some of the lowest distortion, flatest subwoofer performers from 200hz down
- I have spoken with someone/designer who tested the Funks (his favorite bass is FLH and considers FLH without peer in true bass quality)...and he said he considers the dual 18.2 the closest he has ever heard to FLH in performance and character
- Even then, the 'exact qualities' of that bass have to be super-super-coherent with the main AG horns
- And then the footprint of the speaker setup (AG main horns plus Funks) is probably not that much different anyway
- And at 120hz downwards...it is nowhere near the same as starting from 30hz down...where I DO believe the Funks would be a good addition to the Trio G3 setup

Lloyd

Beton art audio tyrexx.
Housing carbon concrete~ 600lbs 2x21"woofer from 14 - 140hz
closed housing no ports very good no flow noise at high volume agile fast response never heard anything before.the company offers a measuring service at your home ~500€