Visit to Zerostargeneral’s Pnoe/Thomas Mayer/VYGER System

[the sound of Tao]

If you played Beethoven's Erotica back then, you two friends would have gotten a boner instead.

Tang

Ron,
I believe the b word Tang is referring to above is actually an obscure musical term denoting the length of a note somewhere between a quaver and a semi-quaver. But I will also now follow Tang’s lead and go out and walk the dog.
BTW loved the report on your visit with the general, great read thank you.

 

[the sound of Tao]

I heard there was fur Elise

That is genuinely funny... now best out to walk the dog.

 

[spiritofmusic]

You guys should walk the plank. The dog deserves better. As do we all.

 

[DaveC]

Well, isn't this awkward?

 

[HughP3]

Of topic, I used to have that dd album, sad that I let it go. Had a friend that had klipschorns way back when, the instrumental was/is Awsome.

 

[NorthStar]

Not of topic, it's one of the reference album music selections Ron used in its first OP to evaluate the General's hi-fi stereo sound system.

 

[HughP3]

Not of topic, it's one of the reference album music selections Ron used in it's first OP to evaluate the General's hi-fi stereo sound system.

I tried the Cd it’s awful compared to the album, very disappointing but still good music

 

[NorthStar]

This, is an all analog rig (General's LP record devotion). Ron's is on that wavelength too...no CDs.

 

[bonzo75]

Ron,
I believe the b word Tang is referring to above is actually an obscure musical term denoting the length of a note somewhere between a quaver and a semi-quaver. But I will also now follow Tang’s lead and go out and walk the dog.
BTW loved the report on your visit with the general, great read thank you.

Have you not heard the sonata in B major

 

[bonzo75]

Have you not heard the sonata in B major

Only a high sensitivity single driver can produce that rise time

 

[shakti]

Mike, you are spot on. The exit from the back loaded horn works similar to being a second driver and has to be managed properly. In fact the biggest issues when driving with the wrong amp is that the bass goes out of sync. And not all backloaded horns can pull it off too

I have used the AER BD3B driver in a RD Acoustic Evolution speaker for a long time.

https://www.rdacoustic.cz/en/high-end-audio/hifi-audio-high-end-speakers-evolution/

For sure , this is not the Pnoe level of music reproduction, but it is a good start to learn "working" with a single driver system and a back loaded bass. Room Integration, listening distance and damping factor of the Amplifier are vital to be considered as important in a much more effecting way to the overall performance than with standard multi driver speakers.

AER does use very often DSP in their Demo Systems to overcome this "problem". Even not preferring DSP usage at all, I liked to use a DSP on my system to get a first impression, how the back loaded bass could sound "integrated".

With the DSP performance as reference it was (at least for me) more easy to challenge myself to find the best position for the speakers and myself.

Very helpful was, that for the RD-Acoustic Evolution a small front loaded horn exists as option, so you can fine-tune the long distance capability of the AER driver. Over 6m listening distance I prefer a front loaded support , at least for the BD3 driver.

AER has done it similar to the Pnoe. The original Arcadia version comes without any front loading or front "reflection" .

The AER version of the Pnoe has a so called "Excenterhorn" on the front (optional), which will help to further fine-tune this parameter.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Have you not heard the sonata in B major

Ked, you know how dangerous seemingly harmless stuff said like that is... next thing I’m combing through for the best B Hammerklavier... had a listen to Levit, the Paul Lewis and Richard Goode, was tempted by the Pollini but ultimately found the great man Sviatoslav Richter himself going hammer and tongs at the Hammerklavier... absolutely amazing performance (but fairly rubbish recording) and so then swang across sideways into some more Richter for Schubert instead. Starts in laughter... ends in music!

 

[bonzo75]

Paul Lewis is playing here this Tuesday.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Wow, Paul Lewis is magic. Levit’s fairly awesome as well. You’ve always got the most amazing choice over there. Enjoy.

 

[bonzo75]

I have used the AER BD3B driver in a RD Acoustic Evolution speaker for a long time.

https://www.rdacoustic.cz/en/high-end-audio/hifi-audio-high-end-speakers-evolution/

For sure , this is not the Pnoe level of music reproduction, but it is a good start to learn "working" with a single driver system and a back loaded bass. Room Integration, listening distance and damping factor of the Amplifier are vital to be considered as important in a much more effecting way to the overall performance than with standard multi driver speakers.

AER does use very often DSP in their Demo Systems to overcome this "problem". Even not preferring DSP usage at all, I liked to use a DSP on my system to get a first impression, how the back loaded bass could sound "integrated".

With the DSP performance as reference it was (at least for me) more easy to challenge myself to find the best position for the speakers and myself.

Very helpful was, that for the RD-Acoustic Evolution a small front loaded horn exists as option, so you can fine-tune the long distance capability of the AER driver. Over 6m listening distance I prefer a front loaded support , at least for the BD3 driver.

AER has done it similar to the Pnoe. The original Arcadia version comes without any front loading or front "reflection" .

The AER version of the Pnoe has a so called "Excenterhorn" on the front (optional), which will help to further fine-tune this parameter.

I have found their Munich stuff really poor. I didn't visit the General for a while because Munich 2016 and 2017 biased me against the pnoe.

Those Riviera amps used this year are really good on cones like Wilson but they were choking this speaker really badly. I have also done compares with the Riviera and silvercore on horns Universum and then with NAF 2a3 on devore. It is quite apparent that the easier to drive the speaker, the good lower powered amp is preferred. The NAF was easily the best on the devore. I would like to try that Riviera on tannoy

 

[bonzo75]

You’ve always got the most amazing choice over there. Enjoy.

That's why more people over here prefer SETs horns.

 

[bonzo75]

Also, nevermind the fact that the way a lot of classical and jazz recordings are made is rather up close...this gives a "they are here" type presentation and it should feel that way. I can imagine General's system does that rather well when the recording is that way (my two single driver systems do this nicely).

No recordings of that quality are made from various perspectives. He has both they are here and we are there. Simple systems, including devore orangutans, have a lot of transparency to where the soundstage and perspectives change from record to record. Tang's and universums also do that very well.

 

[Al M.]

No recordings of that quality are made from various perspectives. He has both they are here and we are there. Simple systems, including devore orangutans, have a lot of transparency to where the soundstage and perspectives change from record to record.

I guess my system is simple too, then .

 

[morricab]

No recordings of that quality are made from various perspectives. He has both they are here and we are there. Simple systems, including devore orangutans, have a lot of transparency to where the soundstage and perspectives change from record to record. Tang's and universums also do that very well.

I am not convinced by the Devore narrative. Heard the Refs in Munich and while not bad also not inspired. Something like the Live Act Audio speakers sound far more realistic, particularly in dynamics, in a room that for their size was less suitable. The normal O96 might be wonderful but in that price range I can think of some tough competition.

I had a similar response to the Axjet this year, which is a BD4 with DSP. It was truly horrible. The Pnoe in past years was mediocre but not horrible and I can imagine it working well in a tweaked setup like the General’s.

The RD Acoustic speaker was a real sleeper and sounded best in the demo room with the Fostex driver over the quite expensive Voxativ. Close up, the “salad bowl” front horn attachment was too “direct” but in a big room would help probably.

 

[Zero000]

I am not convinced by the Devore narrative. Heard the Refs in Munich and while not bad also not inspired. Something like the Live Act Audio speakers sound far more realistic, particularly in dynamics, in a room that for their size was less suitable. The normal O96 might be wonderful but in that price range I can think of some tough competition.

I had a similar response to the Axjet this year, which is a BD4 with DSP. It was truly horrible. The Pnoe in past years was mediocre but not horrible and I can imagine it working well in a tweaked setup like the General’s.

Agreed on both counts.

The Axjet shows what a fine balancing act the BD drivers must be. It must be super easy to go dreadfully wrong with them. The Axjet was a total disaster.

But when the BD4 driver is accommodated well it is stunning.