Visit to Zerostargeneral’s Pnoe/Thomas Mayer/VYGER System

[Ron Resnick]

I want to repeat/rephrase this question to Ron.

Ron, I asked if hearing his stereo is going to change your stereo choices. But perhaps I should ask that less from what you will change, to more do you now have to think about making changes?

No, I do not have to think about making changes to my plan because my musical genre preferences remain vocals and pop/rock with just specific jazz and classical pieces I focus on.

If my primary musical genre preferences were jazz or jazz plus classical, then I would ditch my current plan and copy zerostargeneral’s system — but then I would not have gone down the lower sensitivity loudspeaker/high power amp road in the first place.

 

[microstrip]

Respectfully, I think this is misunderstanding what I tried to convey and what I believe Kedar has tried to convey. I don’t think zerostargeneral’s system is “extremely tuned” and “very sensitive.”

The associated components were laboriously and meticulously selected for synergy and to achieve the desired sonic results based on vast empirical experience, but I saw nothing finicky or high-strung or sensitive about the resulting system. The components all seem very robust to me.

Ron,

Well, tuned for me means exactly what you convey. I expressily meant "tuned" not " tweaked" . Such system is robust. The extreme sensitivity is shown toward recordings - unless it is the unique proper pressing and performance the system sounds poor - we had many descriptions of such behavior and the dedication of owners to feed such demanding system.

It seems to me that your enthusiasm for the system has been reducing since the original post - did you get the visit of the hyperbole police? BTW, I would appreciate to know the tittles of the jazz recordings you listened in this session. IMHO its fundamental to debate reports.

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .
It seems to me that your enthusiasm for the system has been reducing since the original post

. . .

You are entirely incorrect.

 

[microstrip]

You are entirely incorrect.

Sorry, I feel so.

No, I do not have to think about making changes to my plan because my musical genre preferences remain vocals and pop/rock with just specific jazz and classical pieces I focus on.

If my primary musical genre preferences were jazz or jazz plus classical, then I would ditch my current plan and copy zerostargeneral’s system — but then I would not have gone down the lower sensitivity loudspeaker/high power amp road in the first place.

It is what confuses me - you clearly referred in the OP that

"On zerostargeneral’s system for the first time I heard zero diminution of transparency and of in-the-room presence on vocals compared to electrostatic and ribbon loudspeakers. Bill Henderson sounded as transparent and as in-the-room real as I have ever heard him on any electrostatic or ribbon system. "

Why not getting it ?

 

[spiritofmusic]

Marc, none taken. I think you missed my point completely, but I may not have made it clearly.

I still don't understand what you mean by Mike and the General having equal priorities. That to me implies a form of intent. I don't know their respective intentions with regard to their systems other than to guess what it might be based on what I have read. You seem to be more aware of this, so I asked you to explain it. That's all. I don't think it has anything to do with system make up or rooms. I guess I just don't understand what you meant by your statement.

Peter, I guess I'm not getting yr assertion that Mike and The General listen w different purposes in mind. Yes, The General has the hobby as his job, and needs maximum neutrality and maximum transparency. But my contention would be that he would choose this system if he was a mere audiophile too ie listening purely as a hobby.

And I'm sure Mike views his rig/room as a microscope on recordings too.

In terms of choice, they may have totally different gear, but each piece is at the very top of it's game. It's just that Mike is a SS amps/box spkrs man, The General is tubes/horns.

Different ways to nirvana, not for any fundamental reason other than there are many different ways.

 

[PeterA]

No, I do not have to think about making changes to my plan because my musical genre preferences remain vocals and pop/rock with just specific jazz and classical pieces I focus on.

If my primary musical genre preferences were jazz or jazz plus classical, then I would ditch my current plan and copy zerostargeneral’s system — but then I would not have gone down the lower sensitivity loudspeaker/high power amp road in the first place.

I don't understand this Ron. How can you conclude that the VYGER plus arm and cartridge combination is better/worse than what you are planning with the AS2000, 3012R and whatever other arm and cartridge combinations you are planning to get. Do you not think that your vinyl source would sound as good in the General's system as his vinyl source?

BTW, did you take your own LPs or did you listen to those three favorite reference titles on the G's LPs?

 

[PeterA]

Peter, I guess I'm not getting yr assertion that Mike and The General listen w different purposes in mind. Yes, The General has the hobby as his job, and needs maximum neutrality and maximum transparency. But my contention would be that he would choose this system if he was a mere audiophile too ie listening purely as a hobby.

And I'm sure Mike views his rig/room as a microscope on recordings too.

In terms of choice, they may have totally different gear, but each piece is at the very top of it's game. It's just that Mike is a SS amps/box spkrs man, The General is tubes/horns.

Different ways to nirvana, not for any fundamental reason other than there are many different ways.

Marc, we are getting off track here. You made the claim that they have "equal priority". I simply asked you to explain what you meant and to define it. I am guessing as to what it is, so I am hardly making any assertion. We seem to be failing to communicate with each other. No problem, let's forget it and move on.

 

[Al M.]

Sorry, I feel so.



It is what confuses me - you clearly referred in the OP that



Why not getting it ?

Yes, i am slightly confused too.

 

[PeterA]

The way I read it in the OP is that this system is the best Ron has ever heard for Jazz. But for his preference of "girl with guitar", this system sounded the same as, or nearly identical to, his presumed reference of electrostatic speakers. So, given his personal preference of genre, he sees no reason to ditch his plans, because this system is just as good (or enjoyable to him) as the one he is planning to assemble.

I still don't get the vinyl source part of the equation, as they both seem pretty SOTA. It is the amps/speakers typology that seems to be at issue here.

If Ron had felt that the G's system was also clearly better at "girl with guitar", then Ron is saying would would consider ditching his four tower Pendragons and high powered tube amps.

 

[Folsom]

No, I do not have to think about making changes to my plan because my musical genre preferences remain vocals and pop/rock with just specific jazz and classical pieces I focus on.

If my primary musical genre preferences were jazz or jazz plus classical, then I would ditch my current plan and copy zerostargeneral’s system — but then I would not have gone down the lower sensitivity loudspeaker/high power amp road in the first place.

Maybe just a secondary system with the most minimal of TM and maybe a Decware speaker? A cutesy little stereo for elsewhere in the home? I'm half joking.

But your reply tells all, no matter how impressive something is, you don't have to own it if it isn't what you need. I'm sure others that are in love with classical will have to more seriously think about a stereo such as the Generals, after your OP.

 

[microstrip]

The way I read it in the OP is that this system is the best Ron has ever heard for Jazz. But for his preference of "girl with guitar", this system sounded the same as, or nearly identical to, his presumed reference of electrostatic speakers. So, given his personal preference of genre, he sees no reason to ditch his plans, because this system is just as good as the one he is planning to assemble.

I still don't get the vinyl source part of the equation, as they both seem pretty SOTA. It is the amps/speakers typology that seems to be at issue here.

If Ron had felt that the G's system was also clearly better at "girl with guitar", then Ron is saying would would consider ditching his four tower Pendragons and high powered tube amps.

Surely Peter, each of us buys what his ears, heart and wallet want. However as far as I see it there is a very large difference in price in those systems, the Vigger is distributed it the US by Rhapsody Audio, all else is simple equipment. Although we should respect people privacy, Ron brought the subject to debate and we can't restrain from asking questions and use this space to understand other people systems.

If I did have a reasonable suspicion that the Zerostargeneral system would fulfill my very personnel music and sound preferences I would be the first one to duplicate it. However all I have read shows me it is not my dream system.

 

[morricab]

Mike starts his system room down. Think of other people with a lot of experience and gear on this forum... David, Mik, G, Gian, Pietro, etc... None of them tried to work on their room, Mike had a specialized one 15 years ago and he works hard on it daily basis and everything flows from there, noise floor, linearity down to 7 Hz.

Now look at it the other way, none of them have worked 1% of G in terms of recordings and performances and he works many hours a day curating and selecting recordings and also the way he cleans the LP. If you watch him take out the LP and put it back into its cover, it is quite an art, done without touching the cover to preserve the value. Likewise, Mike actually puts on gloves and there is not a speck of dust in there. Both are obsessive..

Both have done component matching

At the end both systems will accurately play back recordings and show transparency to recordings through entirely different channels.

And yes, I have heard the MM3 with the same amps as Mike in another room so I can guess how much distance has been covered by room set up and the Mike factor alone..

And yet I am pretty sure the sounds of the two systems don’t even remotely converge, meaning they can’t really be equal either...what they could be though is better at capturing different aspects of musical realism from each other, since no system captures it all perfectly.

I hAve a pretty good guess at which one I would find more realistic...but I have been surprised before...

 

[morricab]

Peter, no disrespect, but this sounds like a false dichotomy. Their choices of tt, amps and spkrs are different modalities, but top eschelon within their categories. The only meaningful difference is Mike has spent big on the room, grounding, active isolation etc, whereas The General has plonked his system in a purely domestic setting w minimal atrention to acoustics, cbls etc, no "black box" magic other than some Mooks.

It may well be The General has chosen vinyl/triodes/uber high eff single driver for purity of evaluation, but his system is one of the most musical I've heard, and I'm sure Mike's is too.

The only meaningful difference money spent on room, grounding etc.??? You can’t be serious with such a statement. Everything meaningful between the two systems is different! Everything in a system matters.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Attempting to get this back on track. The music heard.

I spoke to General this morning and understand he played Ron all sorts of stuff from varied genres. I know he played some Bill Withers - please find a link to a particularly beautiful track from a performance I don’t think is unfortunately available on vinyl.

That said, the album with the track (different performance) is on Sussex / Just as I am. Am sure many will own it.

Nice choice guys. Am sure the general’s playlist was a big part of the experience.

There is also a different live performance of Hope she’ll be happier on Bill Withers Live At Carnegie Hall as well. FYI Tidal link below.

Bill Withers Live at Carnegie Hall

 

[Tango]

i know i'd rather hear more about some of the General's recordings that were played, and what was heard, or maybe some of the set-up nuances/details that the General or Lucas used, than more about my room.

It just shows how highly regarded your room is for people in this forum Mike.

What I want to know is if the General was wearing a bathrobe and shorts walking with socks in the room.

Tang

 

[Al M.]

Maybe just a secondary system with the most minimal of TM and maybe a Decware speaker? A cutesy little stereo for elsewhere in the home? I'm half joking.

But your reply tells all, no matter how impressive something is, you don't have to own it if it isn't what you need. I'm sure others that are in love with classical will have to more seriously think about a stereo such as the Generals, after your OP.

If you have a large enough the room for it. I don't. I would like to hear such a system though, at some point.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Sorry, I feel so.



It is what confuses me - you clearly referred in the OP that



Why not getting it ?

Sorry, Francisco, why not getting what?

 

[Ron Resnick]

. . .what they could be though is better at capturing different aspects of musical realism . . . since no system captures it all perfectly.

. . .

well stated

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Ron,

Thank you very much from us all here in blighty.

Kona coffee is now in my top three and the Chateau Rouge tea only bested by white tip.

Your a very refined and tasteful individual,it was truly a pleasure to meet in person.

We are enriched to know you.

Kindest regards,G and family.

Thank you very much for those very kind words! I very much enjoyed meeting each of you!

 

[DaveC]

Ron, still curious as to what SPLs you listened at?

Did you listen to symphonic music at realistic levels?