Having those speakers mounted on the ceiling like that must create a new set of room tuning challenges!
Lee
Lee
Vivid Giya G3
- Thread starter dallasjustice
- Start date
I'm talking about the room set up in general. The Kiis are placed right up against the wall.
That is supposed to be their claim to fame. And at any rate, he doesn't have the option of pulling the loudspeakers further out given the small dimensions of his room.
That might be the case, but I have rarely heard any speaker that doesn't sound better pulled away from the rear wall...
I have heard that claim before ... I haven't heard the Kii but in my experience speakers benefit from careful and precise positioning. Including that purportedly can be placed "anywhere"
I am immensely interested by DallasJustice and Rodney Gold approaches and choice of equipment. I will likely follow similar trail
Speaker positioning is always a tradeoff when dealing with just 2 speakers in the typical rectangular room. The typical tradeoff goes like this:
1. Better bass when the speakers are closer to the frontwall (wall facing the listener)
2. Better 3D imaging as the speakers come off the frontwall and into the room.
If one only has 2 speakers, it's always a compromise of one over the other, IME. However, if one has the ability to bring some subs to the party, one can get the speakers out into the room AND have really great bass. Of course, these are my experiences, in my room. YMMV.
1. Better bass when the speakers are closer to the frontwall (wall facing the listener)
2. Better 3D imaging as the speakers come off the frontwall and into the room.
If one only has 2 speakers, it's always a compromise of one over the other, IME. However, if one has the ability to bring some subs to the party, one can get the speakers out into the room AND have really great bass. Of course, these are my experiences, in my room. YMMV.
I have experimented with numerous setup techniques using monitors and pair of subwoofers. With the monitors at least 5 feet or more away from the front wall the 3D imaging is improved. Integrating the two subwoofers takes a little effort but the net result is great bass with a deep soundstage.
I removed my last two prim acoustics corner traps and hung corner modified 7" thick RPG bad panels. You can see the new traps in the rear corners above the purple lights.
I'm not into toobs. Ive got some other plans. I'll start a new thread about it later on.
I'm not into toobs. Ive got some other plans. I'll start a new thread about it later on.
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Vivid speakers like toe in for sure. I have the tweeters pointed directly at the seated position. I've never been able to toe a speaker in this much without collapsing the soundstage. I previously had them about 1/2" toe in measured from sidewall. That's as much as I could toe in the YG Anat III without losing the big soundstage. I have the G3 at 3.5" toe in now. That's a lot more toe in. All other dimensions are the same.
The soundstage is just as wide as before. The midbass measures a little smoother and the HF is better integrated. Everything sounds much more resolving and sweet.
The soundstage is just as wide as before. The midbass measures a little smoother and the HF is better integrated. Everything sounds much more resolving and sweet.
Are you getting a flatter response at listening position with the extreme toe in?
Can you share any measurement graphs with the mic at listening position comparing different levels of toe in?
What are you using for measurement gear?
Software/mic/mic preamp/ADC?
If you were kind enough to share these results, it may help everyone get a good understanding of why things are the way they are.
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Wow Michael. You sure have a lot of surface material there. Do you have RT60 measurements of the room? I expect it to be on the low side.
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?17952-RPG-Modex-Plates-quot-Free-quot-Bass-Traps
The decay should be similar although those are older measurements and I've changed a few things since then. Most of the bass traps are pressure traps.
Thanks. RT60 of 0.25 is very much on the low side. It is what I expect to see in multi-channel home theater setups. It is a pretty dry setup. But if you like it, you like it 
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Thanks. RT60 of 0.25 is very much on the low side. It is what I expect to see in multi-channel home theater setups. It is a pretty dry setup. But if you like it, you like it
Amir,
RT60 won't tell you very much in small rooms in absolute terms. It is a good point of reference when moving treatments in and out of the room. The midrange is a little over 300ms, which is about where I want it. IME, a room which primarily uses diffusion to reduce mid/hi decay versus a room which only uses bare fiberglass (home theater rooms) to achieve the exact same RT60 will sound VERY different. I've done it both ways.
Also, music preferences factor into the equation too. I listen to a fair amount of rock, pop, punk, dance and even some metal. Those genres don't sound great in a room with long decay, IME. I think all kinds of music sound great.
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I just finished reading the entire thread; I feel much better now. :b
I also read few reviews of both the G1 and the G3; impressive.
Here's one from Stereophile on your speakers Michael: http://www.stereophile.com/content/vivid-audio-giya-g3-loudspeaker#cczGyW2bY6O5Oe5J.97
* Regarding x-overs and subwoofers: From my readings, if a speaker plays flat down to 30Hz, cross it @ 60Hz (twice higher). ...20 -> 40, 40 -> 80.
But it is more complex; the slope (1st order, 6dB per octave), and exact crossover point (fraction, like 38.5Hz for example), the type, made, application, etc.
Is there one recipe that applies to everyone?
Cool thread, and I also checked your previous setup Michael...the other thread.
I think your setup is the most extreme when it comes to how far the speakers are from the front wall, your listening position in the room, and how far the speakers are to your ears.
Only the separation between them is good...for best imaging. The rest? It's even better.
<> Oh Michael, that portrait of that young attractive blonde was positioned that way so that the viewers, us, can all see her.
If she would have face the listener we wouldn't have seen her. :b /// Maybe?
I also read few reviews of both the G1 and the G3; impressive.
Here's one from Stereophile on your speakers Michael: http://www.stereophile.com/content/vivid-audio-giya-g3-loudspeaker#cczGyW2bY6O5Oe5J.97
* Regarding x-overs and subwoofers: From my readings, if a speaker plays flat down to 30Hz, cross it @ 60Hz (twice higher). ...20 -> 40, 40 -> 80.
But it is more complex; the slope (1st order, 6dB per octave), and exact crossover point (fraction, like 38.5Hz for example), the type, made, application, etc.
Is there one recipe that applies to everyone?
Cool thread, and I also checked your previous setup Michael...the other thread.
I think your setup is the most extreme when it comes to how far the speakers are from the front wall, your listening position in the room, and how far the speakers are to your ears.
Only the separation between them is good...for best imaging. The rest? It's even better.
<> Oh Michael, that portrait of that young attractive blonde was positioned that way so that the viewers, us, can all see her.
If she would have face the listener we wouldn't have seen her. :b /// Maybe?
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If by "small" you mean RT60 is not valid, that is folklore that is created on the web. It is not correct. See this rather long series of posts/articles I have written on the topic: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...nt-thereof-to-quot-small-acoustic-spaces-quot
That said, yes, in large performance spaces RT60 holds more value than in our listening room. Our use here is limited to quick assessment of whether a room is too live or too dead. Acceptable ranges are between 0.2 and 0.6 when measured @500 Hz. For music I like to see 0.5 to 0.6 and in the case of classical music and large performances, even slightly higher. For multichannel when the other speakers provide the ambiance, then lower values can be tolerated.
Also, one can visually determine RT60 as I did by looking at your room. In this case with fully carpeted room you are already quite a bit there with respect to total space that can be covered. Another way is by simply talking as human speech resembles the directivity of most loudspeakers at those frequencies.
As I said, as long as you are happy, that is fine. Just wanted to note it as chasing low frequency absorption often results in rooms that are overly dead.Also, music preferences factor into the equation too. I listen to a fair amount of rock, pop, punk, dance and even some metal. Those genres don't sound great in a room with long decay, IME. I think all kinds of music sound great.
That's not a very in depth review. I'm curious how the speaker handles the range of 100-350 hz in room at the listening position. It's quite rare to run side firing woofers up that high.
However the KEF blade runs them up to 350hz:
http://www.stereophile.com/content/kef-blade-two-loudspeaker#Ugr2yJlJlfEdUAei.97
I only posted it for the few measurements. But you are right; there are several. Do you know of another one with extensive "objectivity" Mike?
I did not take the time to look at them all, but four-six on the G1 ($60,000-65,000/pair).
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