Wadax Reference Dac and Server arrive

[Mike Lavigne]

i think when we look at CD's and any digital, and point fingers at why it took so long to break through to this point, let's give Wadax designers some credit. their music feed-forward error correction process seems to be the 'breaking the code' revelation. their 'cold fusion' like magical trick.

as a non techie, i am vulnerable to techno-babble, and i realize that. but something with Wadax is fundamentally different, and it's not just heroic degrees of execution.....which these products certainly have. or simply the interface wonder that is the Akasa Optical doohickey. i've been listening to the Wadax Ref dac with the Extreme last night and this morning, to all my familiar files. the Wadax Ref dac is in another league past the MSB with the Extreme.

 

[morricab]

This investigation has always blown my mind and definitely is another piece of the thechnical basics to understand how Wadax is able to translate you to another level of musical experience.

From AE forum talking about Atlantis, no Ref, Dac;

“The Wadax Atlantis DAC is the result of a very intense project going on for the last two years. We have been involving in a project with a well known Spanish university (health related), together with other specialists from different knowledge areas. The aim is to dig deeper into the applications of psychoacoustics to cochlear implants and other hearing aid devices. Patients with hearing problems have severe limitations enjoying music in spite of the presence of advanced hearing aid devices designed primarily for recognizing speech.

We like the idea of using our know-how and acquire experiences to help improving life for those that cannot enjoy music the way we do. The idea was to advance on leading researches on cochlear implants, finding alternatives to traditional approach. That is where Wadax contributes the might of mapping technology beginning with a different starting point instead of the standard vocoder (voice coder).

For the project we had access to many costly hardware resources such as the latest generation of functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging equipment (fMRI) and EEG (electro encephalogram) equipment. fMRI (different from classic magnetic resonance machines in Hospitals) is a machine that maps what areas of our brain are activated with what intensity in real time with a time resolution of 1 second. I can talk about this for hours but let's get to the point.

There were many challenges to overcome: (1) the machine is huge and the patient cannot wear any of the most typical metal. It is because the magnetic and RF field generated by the fMRI machine is huge. This took almost 5 months for us to achieve adequate reliability and safety for the patient to begin experimenting our technology using new materials, custom circuitry, and advanced sensor protocols. It was a beautiful team work with rewarding experiences.

This fundamental research work will hopefully translate into better hearing experience of music for many hearing impaired patients. Music is something that is very remote to them as of today. The researches reward Wadax immensely with a new perspective in the physical-neural mechanism of emotion build-up from LIVE music. Now I know what should be preserved during the D/A conversion process in order to recreate musicality. There are many surprises discovered from such fundamental work that will be beneficial to the Atlantis series for many years to come.

One of the most interesting research conclusions has tremendous applications in the design of high end audio electronics design. The hypothesis is the following: Emotion build up is a “target” for a listener. Live music is the “mean” to charge up the emotion. Our conclusion is that a LIVE event triggers emotion to an intensity that no playback device can ever achieved. That is further substantiated by fMRI and later with electrodes alongside EEG equipment in LIVE music events, with blinded eyes.

And there is another very interesting conclusion inferred from our researches. Different subject perceives tonal balance differently but every subject 'locks' onto a LIVE presentation with almost immediate response to emotion build up.

So there is something UNIVERSAL across different listener types. And the mandate of Wadax is to get as close as possible to the emotional intensity of a LIVE event via the Atlantis DAC.”

As I have said many times on this forum, one just KNOWS when one hears a live event...even from far away at low level. A system that can better stimulate that response, despite perhaps certain technical flaws, will be more desirable to listen to as it triggers emotional responses. Suspension of disbelief should be the goal... not a technical checklist...

 

[morricab]

This investigation has always blown my mind and definitely is another piece of the thechnical basics to understand how Wadax is able to translate you to another level of musical experience.

From AE forum talking about Atlantis, no Ref, Dac;

“The Wadax Atlantis DAC is the result of a very intense project going on for the last two years. We have been involving in a project with a well known Spanish university (health related), together with other specialists from different knowledge areas. The aim is to dig deeper into the applications of psychoacoustics to cochlear implants and other hearing aid devices. Patients with hearing problems have severe limitations enjoying music in spite of the presence of advanced hearing aid devices designed primarily for recognizing speech.

We like the idea of using our know-how and acquire experiences to help improving life for those that cannot enjoy music the way we do. The idea was to advance on leading researches on cochlear implants, finding alternatives to traditional approach. That is where Wadax contributes the might of mapping technology beginning with a different starting point instead of the standard vocoder (voice coder).

For the project we had access to many costly hardware resources such as the latest generation of functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging equipment (fMRI) and EEG (electro encephalogram) equipment. fMRI (different from classic magnetic resonance machines in Hospitals) is a machine that maps what areas of our brain are activated with what intensity in real time with a time resolution of 1 second. I can talk about this for hours but let's get to the point.

There were many challenges to overcome: (1) the machine is huge and the patient cannot wear any of the most typical metal. It is because the magnetic and RF field generated by the fMRI machine is huge. This took almost 5 months for us to achieve adequate reliability and safety for the patient to begin experimenting our technology using new materials, custom circuitry, and advanced sensor protocols. It was a beautiful team work with rewarding experiences.

This fundamental research work will hopefully translate into better hearing experience of music for many hearing impaired patients. Music is something that is very remote to them as of today. The researches reward Wadax immensely with a new perspective in the physical-neural mechanism of emotion build-up from LIVE music. Now I know what should be preserved during the D/A conversion process in order to recreate musicality. There are many surprises discovered from such fundamental work that will be beneficial to the Atlantis series for many years to come.

One of the most interesting research conclusions has tremendous applications in the design of high end audio electronics design. The hypothesis is the following: Emotion build up is a “target” for a listener. Live music is the “mean” to charge up the emotion. Our conclusion is that a LIVE event triggers emotion to an intensity that no playback device can ever achieved. That is further substantiated by fMRI and later with electrodes alongside EEG equipment in LIVE music events, with blinded eyes.

And there is another very interesting conclusion inferred from our researches. Different subject perceives tonal balance differently but every subject 'locks' onto a LIVE presentation with almost immediate response to emotion build up.

So there is something UNIVERSAL across different listener types. And the mandate of Wadax is to get as close as possible to the emotional intensity of a LIVE event via the Atlantis DAC.”

If the WADAX does this better (as measured with fMRI when using it) better than other digital OR analog sources, then I would say it is a true step forward in realistic playback.

 

[K3RMIT]

A very true comment
now do we like live music played at near field , a typical seat at 8 feet
or 25 feet back to allow a complete venue experience

 

[morricab]

i think when we look at CD's and any digital, and point fingers at why it took so long to break through to this point, let's give Wadax designers some credit. their music feed-forward error correction process seems to be the 'breaking the code' revelation. their 'cold fusion' like magical trick.

as a non techie, i am vulnerable to techno-babble, and i realize that. but something with Wadax is fundamentally different, and it's not just heroic degrees of execution.....which these products certainly have. or simply the interface wonder that is the Akasa Optical doohickey. i've been listening to the Wadax Ref dac with the Extreme last night and this morning, to all my familiar files. the Wadax Ref dac is in another league past the MSB with the Extreme.

Would you say that the WADAX is more emotionally satisfying than the MSB was? I personally found the MSB to sound quite "technical" at the shows where I heard it and somewhat low on the emotion generation...

 

[morricab]

A very true comment
now do we like live music played at near field , a typical seat at 8 feet
or 25 feet back to allow a complete venue experience

That SHOULD be recording dependent...

 

[andromedaaudio]

A system that can better stimulate that response, despite perhaps certain technical flaws, will be more desirable to listen to as it triggers emotional responses. Suspension of disbelief should be the goal... not a technical checklist..

If it doesnt trigger an emotional response , what s the point of listening to gear

 

[morricab]

If it doesnt trigger an emotional response , what s the point of listening to gear

I am sure you have heard a fair amount of gear that doesn't do it, no?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Would you say that the WADAX is more emotionally satisfying than the MSB was? I personally found the MSB to sound quite "technical" at the shows where I heard it and somewhat low on the emotion generation...

in my mind the MSB was the model for 'more real' digital for me; by degrees compared to other digital i had heard. the MSB had that continuousness and ease along with decay and overtones. so it was able to get me close to and immersed in the music. very satisfying listening.

that said, the Wadax experience is next level for those things; i am getting vinyl type emotional connection now. a paradigm shift.

 

[andromedaaudio]

I am sure you have heard a fair amount of gear that doesn't do it, no?

Sure , but haven t we all

 

[justubes]

Hi Mike,

Congrats getting to the next level, I hope to be able to hear the Wada dac sometime when it finally gets setup in the showroom on static display currently.

Would like your view on whether you found hirez digital files consistently sounding closer to tape or even further away than good rebook files.

 

[Stereophonic]

in my mind the MSB was the model for 'more real' digital for me; by degrees compared to other digital i had heard. the MSB had that continuousness and ease along with decay and overtones. so it was able to get me close to and immersed in the music. very satisfying listening.

that said, the Wadax experience is next level for those things; i am getting vinyl type emotional connection now. a paradigm shift.

Hi Mike.
Impressive affirmation.
What voltage and impedance output are you using?
My Atlantis sounds better with 1V output voltage. Preamps tends to sound better with low input voltages.
4V has being always discarded by me. Too much gain that results in too much sound energy.
Haven't the option to change impedance output in my DAC, it is very interesting to me this feature. I find it a great one.
Have you experimented with these options?

 

[Kingrex]

This thread has frustrated me. Mike has listened to a lot of DAC. I have owned 4 or 5. My Mojo Audio was quite a step above others. My Mojo was almost indistinguishable from the MSB I had at my house for a week. The Mojo was better so I kept it. They both voiced almost exactly the same. And therein lies the rub. I was going to upgrade my DAC, but now that I have listed to the Wadax, I know I wont ever get that sort of playback. I will get a little more meat on the bones. A little more flesh in the overall sound. But I won't move to a more natural and real sound.

It would be nice to know if any other manufacturer is getting close to the Wadax voice at more real world prices. Even understanding what the Atlantis is capable of would be interesting. It would be nice if a distributor could make a statement to the Wadax family sound and performance between Atlantis and Ref.

 

[dminches]

This thread has frustrated me. Mike has listened to a lot of DAC. I have owned 4 or 5. My Mojo Audio was quite a step above others. My Mojo was almost indistinguishable from the MSB I had at my house for a week. The Mojo was better so I kept it. They both voiced almost exactly the same. And therein lies the rub. I was going to upgrade my DAC, but now that I have listed to the Wadax, I know I wont ever get that sort of playback. I will get a little more meat on the bones. A little more flesh in the overall sound. But I won't move to a more natural and real sound.

It would be nice to know if any other manufacturer is getting close to the Wadax voice at more real world prices. Even understanding what the Atlantis is capable of would be interesting. It would be nice if a distributor could make a statement to the Wadax family sound and performance between Atlantis and Ref.

How do which part of the sound was a result of the server and which was the DAC?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike.
Impressive affirmation.
What voltage and impedance output are you using?
My Atlantis sounds better with 1V output voltage. Preamps tends to sound better with low input voltages.
4V has being always discarded by me. Too much gain that results in too much sound energy.
Haven't the option to change impedance output in my DAC, it is very interesting to me this feature. I find it a great one.
Have you experimented with these options?

View attachment 87999

i have done a 'down and dirty' adjustment to these parameters. this was with Elliot last Thursday night, we tried 1v 2v and settled on 2v keeping my preamp volume attenuation below 0.0db unity gain for the most part. did not try 4v.

i am using the 600 ohm impedance setting, and using the XLR input on the dart pre with 600 ohm +6db setting toggle (not legible from this picture).

obviously impedance and gain are related. so maybe there is a better combination.

once i'm in a more settled situation; i will take my time to explore and fine tune things. i don't expect to change anything then, but want to understand how it changes. there is also fine tuning the data stream from the server too. but these type things are for a quieter time.

 

[Elliot G.]

i have done a 'down and dirty' adjustment to these parameters. this was with Elliot last Thursday night, we tried 1v 2v and settled on 2v keeping my preamp volume attenuation below 0.0db unity gain for the most part. did not try 4v.

i am using the 600 ohm impedance setting, and using the XLR input on the dart pre with 600 ohm +6db setting toggle (not legible from this picture).

obviously impedance and gain are related. so maybe there is a better combination.

once i'm in a more settled situation; i will take my time to explore and fine tune things. i don't expect to change anything then, but want to understand how it changes. there is also fine tuning the data stream from the server too. but these type things are for a quieter time.

Mike I think we changed the impedance setting to zero unless you moved it back. We originally had it at 600 ohm.

 

[Elliot G.]

This thread has frustrated me. Mike has listened to a lot of DAC. I have owned 4 or 5. My Mojo Audio was quite a step above others. My Mojo was almost indistinguishable from the MSB I had at my house for a week. The Mojo was better so I kept it. They both voiced almost exactly the same. And therein lies the rub. I was going to upgrade my DAC, but now that I have listed to the Wadax, I know I wont ever get that sort of playback. I will get a little more meat on the bones. A little more flesh in the overall sound. But I won't move to a more natural and real sound.

It would be nice to know if any other manufacturer is getting close to the Wadax voice at more real world prices. Even understanding what the Atlantis is capable of would be interesting. It would be nice if a distributor could make a statement to the Wadax family sound and performance between Atlantis and Ref.

Rex, I am sure if you wrote an email to Javier he would do his best to answer your questions. You can send me a DM and I will be happy to try to get you the answers you need. Elliot

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike I think we changed the impedance setting to zero unless you moved it back. We originally had it at 600 ohm.

i'll have to look, doing this from my memory here at work.

 

[Stereophonic]

obviously impedance and gain are related. so maybe there is a better combination.

Your speakers are high sensitive (96db).
I encourage you to do this simply test.
1V Dac output and +6db internal preamp xlr input.
It is better to work with higher preamp gain than Dac one.
I’m sure you will find this setting much better.

 

[K3RMIT]

Mike if I’m understanding you are you saying dac output imp is set 600 ohms
and pre amp also 600 ohms ?