Wadax Reference Dac and Server arrive

[K3RMIT]

Mike knows what better sound is
he will take his time to play with this. after all he has a world class setup
and now and all new digital system
I have little doubt it’s better in how he feels. but over time he will tweak
reg output voltage .
higher gain can be better at source or more gain at the preamp
it’s all making adjustments over time his time.
every preamp has a sweet spot
and I’m sure mike knows it
keep making observation posts mike
I can’t afford it but do live through your posts.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Your speakers are high sensitive (96db).
I encourage you to do this simply test.
1V Dac output and +6db internal preamp xlr input.
It is better to work with higher preamp gain than Dac one.
I’m sure you will find this setting much better.

but if my pre is mostly showing from -10db to the 0db range, occasionally into the +5db range, that is the sweet spot.

 

[Stereophonic]

For a max of +12dbs displayed?
I remember i had to turn up until 0 dbs displayed in my CTH-8550 to get pressure level i like.
Last volume’s steps have more gain than first ones in the “pleasure control”…
It seems Dartzeel preamp has even less gain, so 2V from dac seems logical…

 

[microstrip]

i think when we look at CD's and any digital, and point fingers at why it took so long to break through to this point, let's give Wadax designers some credit. their music feed-forward error correction process seems to be the 'breaking the code' revelation. their 'cold fusion' like magical trick.

As far as we can read the Wadax music feed-forward error correction process is a nice name for an hardware implementation of an algorithm that compensates non linearity and errors in the DAC acting on the data stream. I can easily imagine that the real magic trick is a lot more than that - nowhere just an ASIC chip can can justify such high price!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

For a max of +12dbs displayed?
I remember i had to turn up until 0 dbs displayed in my CTH-8550 to get pressure level i like.
Last volume’s steps have more gain than first ones in the “pleasure control”…
It seems Dartzeel preamp has even less gain, so 2V from dac seems logical…
View attachment 88002

max gain on the 18NS is +11db.

if i can stay in the +5db to the -15db range then i'm happy. always need headroom for those moments when i go Warp 9 (11). recordings have a wide range of ideal gain and i have tape and vinyl with multiple phono's too.

later on i do plan on trying various approaches on this issue. i love the choices Wadax allows.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

As far as we can read the Wadax music feed-forward error correction process is a nice name for an hardware implementation of an algorithm that compensates non linearity and errors in the DAC acting on the data stream. I can easily imagine that the real magic trick is a lot more than that - nowhere just an ASIC chip can can justify such high price!

you did not include my 'techno-babble' comment. 'why' and 'how' is your arena, not mine. i'm focused on 'what it does'.

 

[microstrip]

but if my pre is mostly showing from -10db to the 0db range, occasionally into the +5db range, that is the sweet spot.

Bizarre. Your amplifier has 26 dB gain, your loudness peaks could be higher than 120 dB if the DAC setting is 2V!

Are you sure of these settings?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Bizarre. Your amplifier has 26 dB gain, your loudness peaks could be higher than 120 dB if the DAC setting is 2V!

Are you sure of these settings?

my amps have a choice between 26db or 32db of gain. i use 32db of gain on my 468's. also consider i'm using the 50 ohm zeel between the pre and amps. not XLR. not sure how that works.

again; i'm about what is going on, not why or how.

read Atkinson's 18NS technical write-up in Stereophile this month for details.

darTZeel NHB-18NS preamplifier Mk.2 Measurements

darTZeel NHB-18NS Mk.2 Measurements, from February 2022 (Vol.45 No.2): After Michael Fremer reviewed the darTZeel NHB-18NS full-function preamplifier in the June 2006 issue of Stereophile, he bought the review sample. He subsequently replaced it with the NHB-18NS Mk.2, which he wrote about in...

www.stereophile.com

 

[microstrip]

my amps have a choice between 26db or 32db of gain. i use 32db of gain on my 468's.

Well, I can't understand, I am probably missing something. 0dB (unity gain) attenuation at the preamplier and 96dB speakers with 32 dB gain is crazy loud!

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Well, I can't understand, I am probably missing something. 0dB (unity gain) attenuation at the preamplier and 96dB speakers with 32 dB gain is crazy loud!

it's absolutely perfect to my ears.

 

[Stereophonic]

@microstrip is right…
My TAD C600 pre has a gain of 12db. Only one more of your Dartzeel, my mono amps 29dbs and my Tads CR1 has a sensitive of 86 dbs.

my amps have a choice between 26db or 32db of gain. i use 32db of gain on my 468's. also consider i'm using the 50 ohm zeel between the pre and amps. not XLR. not sure how that works.

With this power to a 96db speakers? It is crazyness… 1V from Dac is what i consider better as a lot of Atlantis users…

 

[microstrip]

it's absolutely perfect to my ears.

Do you have the the switchable 6dB input attenuation at the NHB18 ON?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Do you have the the switchable 6dB input attenuation at the NHB18 ON?

XLR input only; yes. the other inputs don't have it.

 

[Stereophonic]

I would put it in pro mode…
“Looking first at the line inputs, the maximum gain without the switchable 6dB input attenuation was 11.63dB for balanced inputs”.
You are playing with 5,86 dB from pre… You can get double gain in Pro Mode and use 1V Dac output…
More gain in pre and less one in Dac..

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I would put it in pro mode…

ok, now you guys have me questioning my memory.

i am a senior citizen after all. so let me check tonight. i hate to cause you guys undue stress. i can tell you i'm doing fine.

 

[Stereophonic]

XLR input only; yes. the other inputs don't have it.

Hervé Deletraz is a true believer of RCA connection….so the attenuation is to balance XLR to RCA same db’s level…
Not this case…

 

[K3RMIT]

Mike are the dart amps bal or se topology ? And I’m not say uf one is better either just asking ? Sorry no glasses

 

[ctydwn]

Mike are the fart amps bal or se topology ? And I’m not say uf one is better either just asking ?

Now that would be new marketing strategy or technology. I know what you meant @K3RMIT!

 

[K3RMIT]

I know
i just seen this. Really kills me being kind.
sorry people.

 

[divertiti]

This thread has frustrated me. Mike has listened to a lot of DAC. I have owned 4 or 5. My Mojo Audio was quite a step above others. My Mojo was almost indistinguishable from the MSB I had at my house for a week. The Mojo was better so I kept it. They both voiced almost exactly the same. And therein lies the rub. I was going to upgrade my DAC, but now that I have listed to the Wadax, I know I wont ever get that sort of playback. I will get a little more meat on the bones. A little more flesh in the overall sound. But I won't move to a more natural and real sound.

It would be nice to know if any other manufacturer is getting close to the Wadax voice at more real world prices. Even understanding what the Atlantis is capable of would be interesting. It would be nice if a distributor could make a statement to the Wadax family sound and performance between Atlantis and Ref.

I can definitely relate to the frustration of not being able to unhear amazing sound. Which MSB did you compare the Mojo to? I have owned the Mojo Mystique Evo with upgrades and now own a MSB Reference, in my system there is quite a large gap. I replaced the Mojo Mystique Evo with a Holo Audio May KTE (2 box R2R) and the Holo was better in almost every way (for my taste in my system). Of course the MSB is another significant jump up.

I think it's all down to personal taste and music preference. For me, although I like the analog sound, I also value speed, visceral impact, tangibility and transparency. But for someone else, those things could be much further down the priority list.

For DACs at mortal prices, there is the Pilium Elektra that's getting a lot of rave feedback, as well as Aries Cerat Helene and Kassandra. Though I think none of those will be 100% neutral.

Lastly, I can't help but reflect back to Capital Audio Fest, where the best sounding room to me had the cheapest digital source. It was the Kharma Exquisite Midi, powered by CJ Art 300 monos and Gat 2 pre, all fed by a 10+ yr old $300 CD player, Cambridge Audio 740c. It had the most natural yet polished sound, literally like performers in the room. This is the same show with $1M+ VAC, Esoteric and VS system as well as the Bending Wave room with Wadax Ref DAC and server feeding Gobel speakers. Seems like there is more than one path to get to audio nirvana.