Wadax Reference Dac and Server arrive

[spiritofmusic]

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Now Stereophonic, don't go quite as far as Travis...

 

[Lagonda]

Stereophonic aka Travis Bickle lol.

Yes why ask stereophonic about anything Wadax related ? He is obviously only a satisfied customer ! That is his story, and he is sticking to it !

 

[Rhapsody]

That was the phrase Ivor Tiefenbrun of Linn Products used over 40 some years ago now when promoting his LP12 , He also endorsed the single speaker Demo room approach.

Yes, I owned a LP12 40 years ago I was a believer then and now. I thought you were referring to my post only, not IT's revelation, as it was at the time.

 

[Rhapsody]

Could you tell me why i have to know it?
You called me a troll and now you ask me?
Take it easy…. Germany isn’t your area of work.

No, you didn't have to know, it. I thought that you might know it. I was asking a question, nothing more than that. I was not looking for a fight, I was asking if Rainer was a Wadax dealer or a personal user. Was that so threatening? It wasn't meant meant to be.

I have been personally been importing products from Germany for 21 years now. I also have sold many pieces of audio equipment over the years to customers in Germany. Currently I am working with two manufacturers in Germany on quotes for incoming products. I'm very vested in both Germany and many other Euro countries. As well as many Asian countries. It's a very small world at this point.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I have updated my signature. I represent Pilium, Wadax, Taiko, Waycables and Acrolink in Germany

Regarding my findings on the Wadax Ref DAC:

I think sometimes it is quite difficult to find words to describe a sonic perception especially when English is not your native language, However I will try my best.

When I first listen to Wadax (with APL streamer) the impression of much more span in dynamics (Makro to micro dynamics) were so obvious. A field where analog rules very often.
2nd observation was the extreme natural tone and pitch of the Wadax performance. No edginess; superb details and so much more layers in the depth of the soundstage compared to what I was used to.

Also the width of the soundstage is a bit wider and more holographic. More 3 D. I can listen to much higher volume without fatigue - even more now with the Taiko extreme.

3rd observation: Even with 44-16 redbook recordings you do not miss a thing.
4th: on low volumes also no miss of details. The range of volume (loudness) where you think it sound incredible is more than on the frontends I have.

I played also with output volume and prefer 4V for very dynamic pieces, but listen mostly to 2V now. Of course this is a question of your amps involved. I am mostly listening to 0 Ohm output impedance. Higher values make critical recordings rounder. But I usually don´t need it.

That said, my analog is relative pale in the midrange compared to Wadax. But I might not have the best analog out there. Usually analog vs digital is that analog opens up in the treble without beeing on the bright and lean (edgy and hard) side. This is exactly what Wadax does. This openess from top analog without any constrains you might be familiar with digital.

But of course your milage might vary. I can just say give Wadax a try. Best at home because it takes some days that the DAC is at optimum temperature.

Br

Rainer

Hi Rainer,

Nice to have you in the forum and good insights. What was the previous dac that the Wadax easily beat out?

 

[Kawero]

Hi Rainer,

Nice to have you in the forum and good insights. What was the previous dac that the Wadax easily beat out?

Pilium Elektra and APL DSD-MR SE

Both top class DAC.
Br
Rainer

 

[audioarcher]

i want to thank my local friend Sean (WBF member "audioarcher") for visiting yesterday for an enjoyable listening session, and assisting me with the heavy lifting of moving my gear around to get things organized. got the Tripoint Elite moved over to the bottom left, on double Daiza's, then the Wadax dac power supplies one rack left, on double Daiza's, and the Wadax Ref dac moved from on top of the Tana active shelf, to the bottom where the power supplies had been, on double Daiza's. then the NVS tt back in it's place on the Tana. this is likely how it's going to be unless i were to change rack brands (no plans for that right now).

after the 45 minutes or so of our 'workout', we started the session with Sean listening to the Wadax for an hour or so, mostly to cuts of his choosing. obviously we had just moved stuff around and had everything unplugged. so it was not quite at it's best. then another hour of vinyl. mostly very good pressings, with some 45's. no doubt i love what i hear from the Wadax and with good recordings, you are never aware it's digital and not vinyl, but just speaking for myself, the best vinyl is in another league. it does require some top level vinyl gear to do that, of course. YMMV.

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You are welcome Mike. I enjoyed my visit. It had been a while since my last visit, and there was a lot of new gear to listen to.

The Wadax sounded very good. If memory serves, it was the best digital I have heard at Mikes. I'm sure it sounds even better with more time for the clock temperature to stabilize. I remember really liking the Aqua Formula when he had it, but that was some time ago.

We also listened to the Saskia, and the CS Port turntables. The NVS was not ready for action yet. They both have an Etsuro Gold cartridge, but the one on the Saskia is a SE model. The Etsuro Gold on the CS Port was an even higher model than one on the Saskia. This was my first time listening to these, and they sounded great. They were both hooked up to the CS Port phono stage. Overall I prefered the sound of the CS port turntable. It was clearer sounding and more detailed to my ears. Not sure how much of that was due to the cartridges being different, and or different tonearms as well. The Saskia did a little better in the bass department, but the CS Port is no slouch in this department.

Thanks again for the visit Mike.

 

[Stereophonic]

No, you didn't have to know, it. I thought that you might know it. I was asking a question, nothing more than that. I was not looking for a fight, I was asking if Rainer was a Wadax dealer or a personal user. Was that so threatening? It wasn't meant meant to be.

Yes. You have asked Rainer directly. He is a new member and your welcome words have been, stop, identify !!!!
That is threatening and no most elegant form of new member welcome…
You haven’t be able to wait his answer and only thing you do is to ask the same to me?
We have already Ron as moderator member.
Yes, the same one you were asking to delete me because i’m a troll and all things you accused to me….
Don’t take me as a fool being so cynical by your side…
But i’m sorry, i wasn’t looking for a fight, because the sky is pink and candies grows in my garden….
I don’t know what’s happening with dealers…
To much sensitive lately…
I’m still waiting an apologize….

I am very surprised that the moderators are letting this troll/Wadax fan boy to come into this thread with his nonsensical attacks and have ruined a stunningly great announcement that was made by Emile today.

Moderators, please wake up and at least ban this troll from this thread. He has never once contributed one positive comment in this thread. Although if you go back over the last two years, he has tried to disrupt the Extreme synergy that exists by the Extreme/Taiko community on many different occasions.

You don't see any of the happy Extreme users going into the Wadax thread and trolling just for the fun of it.

It's disappointing that this meaningless trolling is allowed to happen in this thread and definitely brings the Wadax name down several notches in the type of company that many people would choose to be associated with, regardless of how good the product might be, with representation from Wadax being presented in this manner.

 

[Rhapsody]

Nothing more to say here. I asked if Rainer was a Wadax dealer or end-user? Nothing more than that. I received the answer.

Regarding my post in the Extreme thread regarding your posts in that thread. It is what it is. You said what you wanted to say in that thread and I said what I wanted to say. It's over. Let it go.

Just gaze up into that pink sky and eat some of those candies that you are growing. Be well.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Hi Mike,

Have really been enjoying your Wadax updates…I continue to believe that competition is great for our hobby, and even though some of us who no longer own the absolute SOTA or can’t afford it might be disappointed in the near term, in the long run we’ll all be better off for it as Wadax’s advancements should spur greater innovation by the other industry players.

When you have a free moment, would you kindly summarize the differential between the total cost of ownership (in retail $s) between what you’ve invested in your Wadax stack (preamplifier, cables, cords, isolation, rack space, tweaks, etc) vs your former MSB stack including the Taiko? Since it’s debatable that one gains much sonic improvement by utilizing a preamp with the MSB Select, let’s assume that cost is not reflected in the MSB cost of ownership.

Understanding this *total* cost of ownership differential would very helpful for many of us, as even if the Wadax is the indisputable sonic champion, I suspect many of us would be fine owning the second best (Porsche Turbo vs the Turbo S) to the extent the cost differential is overwhelming.

Thanks,
Blake

hi Blake,

i did try a few times to attempt to answer your cost of ownership questions, but no way to do it without getting more personal than i'm comfortable doing on the forum. in a face to face conversation over an adult beverage i'd be ok getting into it. hard to ever un-ring the posting bell.

i've explained my process as far as i can; it's up to others to judge whether it makes sense for them.

best,

Mike

 

[Stereophonic]

Just gaze up into that pink sky and eat some of those candies that you are growing. Be well.

Even you haven’t understand my cynical example…
You can cry to Ron again or come here with well-argued criticism.
Cheers…

 

[Rhapsody]

Even you haven’t understand my cynical example…
You can cry to Ron again or come here with well-argued criticism.
Cheers…

I don't have any criticism nor am I looking for an argument. What is there to argue about? I asked a question, and received the answer. Nothing more than that.

If you would like to continue this back and forth please pm me. I will be happy to engage you until the cows come home, but I do not think it is productive to waste other members time reading our interchange.

I won't answer back on this thread, it's been de-railed enough. I apologize to the others reading the thread. ST- please PM me if you wish to continue.

 

[Stereophonic]

hi Blake,

i did try a few times to attempt to answer your cost of ownership questions, but no way to do it without getting more personal than i'm comfortable doing on the forum. in a face to face conversation over an adult beverage i'd be ok getting into it. hard to ever un-ring the posting bell.

i've explained my process as far as i can; it's up to others to judge whether it makes sense for them.

best,

Mike

At this level, i don’t see money is the key…
You have explained it very well. It was your goal and you can reach it.
I never will be able to access to a Ref. setup or MSB Select II…. It is so simple as there are people like me that has a roof in this hobby and MSB Select ii owners aren’t fortunately in this club.
Listen by yourself and search your goal…
It can be MSB, Wadax, CH,…. Are you happy with it? Buy it and enjoy….
Just my 2+

 

[microstrip]

i want to thank my local friend Sean (WBF member "audioarcher") for visiting yesterday for an enjoyable listening session, and assisting me with the heavy lifting of moving my gear around to get things organized. got the Tripoint Elite moved over to the bottom left, on double Daiza's, then the Wadax dac power supplies one rack left, on double Daiza's, and the Wadax Ref dac moved from on top of the Tana active shelf, to the bottom where the power supplies had been, on double Daiza's. then the NVS tt back in it's place on the Tana. this is likely how it's going to be unless i were to change rack brands (no plans for that right now).

after the 45 minutes or so of our 'workout', we started the session with Sean listening to the Wadax for an hour or so, mostly to cuts of his choosing. obviously we had just moved stuff around and had everything unplugged. so it was not quite at it's best. then another hour of vinyl. mostly very good pressings, with some 45's. no doubt i love what i hear from the Wadax and with good recordings, you are never aware it's digital and not vinyl, but just speaking for myself, the best vinyl is in another league. it does require some top level vinyl gear to do that, of course. YMMV.

Am I alone finding that such narrative would be much more interesting with the proper recordings identification?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Am I alone finding that such narrative would be much more interesting with the proper recordings identification?

this was no compare, just a fun listening session. but i will try to recall the cuts we played.

from my memory, here are the Lp's.

"Voodoo", Sonny Clark Memorial Quartet, 33 rpm OP--CS Port
"Monk's Music", 'Abide With Me', 'Well You Needn't', Thelonius Monk, 45 rpm pressing---Saskia
"MASSEDUCTION", St. Vincent, "Slow Disco", Savior", 33 rpm--CS Port
"Paris Berlin", Joscho Stephan Trio, "Train to Paris", "Are You In The Mood?", dtd pressing.---CS Port
"Smack Up", Art Pepper, 45rpm pressing.---both tt's.
"Temptation", Holly Cole, "Falling Down", 45 rpm box set.---CS Port
"LZ 1", Led Zep, "Babe I'm Gonna Leave You", 45 rpm LZ big box.---CS Port

as far as digital cuts; Sean choose his own and i don't recall many. here is what i recall. maybe he can add some.

"88 Basie Street", not sure the cut---redbook

we played a number of pieces of cuts from my playlist (i can list some if you like). two of them were one's i've mentioned numerous times.

Wadax Reference Dac and Server arrive

I think if you are talking about Taiko TAS/XDMS for changing the data stream, it is more reasonable. What do you think about other chips? You think CDPs don't have error correction technical or interpolate signal? All of companies have their own technicals, please remember that. It’s all a...

whatsbestforum.com

 

[HiFim3]

To hear the Wadax REF system at it’s best you need to install RevOPods under it.

 

[bryans]

To hear the Wadax REF system at it’s best you need to install RevOPods under it.

Funny when I was listening to some of the Wadax gear, my dealer told me the same thing. My response was I guess when you are spending this kind of money, what's another few thousands.

 

[battles]

hi Blake,

i did try a few times to attempt to answer your cost of ownership questions, but no way to do it without getting more personal than i'm comfortable doing on the forum. in a face to face conversation over an adult beverage i'd be ok getting into it. hard to ever un-ring the posting bell.

i've explained my process as far as i can; it's up to others to judge whether it makes sense for them.

best,

Mike

Thanks Mike. That’s understandable and I apologize if I missed your prior attempts to explain the cost differential. With all due respect to everyone’s opinions on this thread, it feels like we’re comparing apples to oranges here with the Wadax stack + a preamp + additional cables and isolation likely costing 3x that of the MSB Select. For goodness sake, the Wadax should sound better. If it didn’t, Wadax would have squandered significant development cost. Certainly, I’m sure MSB could improve upon the Select if they had an additional $100K+\- of margin per unit to enhance design, hardware, etc. Saying that, I sure hope MSB’s answer to this is not a $250K Select III stack!

 

[Audiocrack]

Thanks Mike. That’s understandable and I apologize if I missed your prior attempts to explain the cost differential. With all due respect to everyone’s opinions on this thread, it feels like we’re comparing apples to oranges here with the Wadax stack + a preamp + additional cables and isolation likely costing 3x that of the MSB Select. For goodness sake, the Wadax should sound better. If it didn’t, Wadax would have squandered significant development cost. Certainly, I’m sure MSB could improve upon the Select if they had an additional $100K+\- of margin per unit to enhance design, hardware, etc. Saying that, I sure hope MSB’s answer to this is not a $250K Select III stack!

May I ask why we should not compare the retailprices of the Wadax reference dac and MSB select ii dac in your view? I am asking because most audiophiles - when they are spending money at this audio level - are going to use a preamp of their (own) choice / liking anyway. I do not know the exact price of the MSB select ii dac but if I am not mistaken it is around 110-120k usd (if you go all the way) while the Wadax reference dac costs 145k usd. I do not believe we are comparing apples to oranges if we take the prices of both dacs into account. And only looking at these prices the Wadax reference dac is indeed more expensive but is it really a night and day difference in your view?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Thanks Mike. That’s understandable and I apologize if I missed your prior attempts to explain the cost differential. With all due respect to everyone’s opinions on this thread, it feels like we’re comparing apples to oranges here with the Wadax stack + a preamp + additional cables and isolation likely costing 3x that of the MSB Select. For goodness sake, the Wadax should sound better. If it didn’t, Wadax would have squandered significant development cost. Certainly, I’m sure MSB could improve upon the Select if they had an additional $100K+\- of margin per unit to enhance design, hardware, etc. Saying that, I sure hope MSB’s answer to this is not a $250K Select III stack!

no need to apologize. prices can be the unsaid 800 pound gorilla in the room.

over dozens of threads here and on other forums over decades when we get to rationalizing performance and ROI at the bleeding edge of hifi performance the law of diminishing returns reigns. and even we mostly can't agree about what better performance actually means. so no, no way can i explain any cost differential in the written word. we let the manufacturers have a go at it. it's not our problem.

i fully agree with your apples and oranges analogy. i wish that MSB or Extreme owners would just observe the price difference and relax, the world is still on it's axis, but i know that will never happen. especially in the digital realm (with analog it's the opposite, the benefit of the doubt is more likely with new products....a greater expectation of the possibility of something better), there is a strong degree of skepticism with something new. and it's just how it is. so calmly expecting that some new 40-50% more expensive digital product is better is not how it's ever going to go. i've chased the ultimate digital playback for two decades. i can only say that i am satisfied with the answer to the question personally.

is the Wadax combo worth $100k more than the MSB/Extreme? is it even actually better? do you prefer red or blue? it is unanswerable factually.

we will find a degree of truth over time. will the Wadax have the staying power of the MSB Select? i know that is not 100% a performance question, but it's a big part of it. we will see how the marketplace reacts to the Wadax. that's where the truth will be with the product investment it will take.