WADAX Studio Player (Official Topic)
Hi Guys, let's use this space as the "official" topic for the WADAX Studio Player. Here's the main site page for the player - https://landing.wadax.eu/studio-player/
audiophilestyle.com
Wadax Studio Player Review
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Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Thank youWADAX Studio Player (Official Topic)
Hi Guys, let's use this space as the "official" topic for the WADAX Studio Player. Here's the main site page for the player - https://landing.wadax.eu/studio-player/
@Elliot G. - Thanks a lot for your information, this is very helpful. The comparison in your clients home was only with streaming I guess, because with the C1.2 the client had obviously (from his pictures) no other disc player?
Aside from the price and the (ridiculous) box count difference between the Studio Player and my setup with C1.2 Mono version in conjunction with D1.5 connected through HDLink cable and 2xX1 PSUs would you still prefer the Studio Player when playing SACDs and CDs?
@matthias - Yes, I got this too from his comparison, but I thought more about his C1.2 review.
The comparison of the Studio Player against a 6-box setup from CH should have a different outcome, at least I hope so
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
Well we only had one disc player so …@Elliot G. - Thanks a lot for your information, this is very helpful. The comparison in your clients home was only with streaming I guess, because with the C1.2 the client had obviously (from his pictures) no other disc player?
Aside from the price and the (ridiculous) box count difference between the Studio Player and my setup with C1.2 Mono version in conjunction with D1.5 connected through HDLink cable and 2xX1 PSUs would you still prefer the Studio Player when playing SACDs and CDs?
@matthias - Yes, I got this too from his comparison, but I thought more about his C1.2 review.
The comparison of the Studio Player against a 6-box setup from CH should have a different outcome, at least I hope so
However streaming of files and Qobuz was the comparison tools
He does that normally but now he can play discs as well.
Remember there are two upgrade items coming down the road if wanted
This product is 40k and one box one power cord one set of interconects
It’s a steal
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
@matthias - the six boxes are steps in improving what the DAC is capable of doing.It does not make an apple into an orange. I had the big CH set up with the C1, clock , mono and all the X-1's. Then I got my Wadax. Its a different animal. This is not to put down the Ch its that there are times when you find something that is very very different and the power supplies etc bring out more of what the original can do but it cant chage its nature. IMO no matter what you add its not a Wadax.
The Studio player shares so much of the Reference in sound quality that its incredible. I know from my time with it in my system and a few others that this IMO is a new benchmark for what is possible and its one box and under 40K.
Is my reference better? Yes at almost 10x price and if it wasn't on my big system maybe I wouldn't appreciate it at all.
My client didnt have the 6 boxes but these differences were not subtle and not difficult to experience. I doubt, this is my personal opinion , that all the boxes in the world wouldn't have changed that . Maybe they would have shortened the gaps but at an ever increasing price.
The Studio player shares so much of the Reference in sound quality that its incredible. I know from my time with it in my system and a few others that this IMO is a new benchmark for what is possible and its one box and under 40K.
Is my reference better? Yes at almost 10x price and if it wasn't on my big system maybe I wouldn't appreciate it at all.
My client didnt have the 6 boxes but these differences were not subtle and not difficult to experience. I doubt, this is my personal opinion , that all the boxes in the world wouldn't have changed that . Maybe they would have shortened the gaps but at an ever increasing price.
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
A paradigm shift is exactly what the Wadax approach to digital replay represents - and always has, from day one and the Pre 1. That's also what all the 'poetry' is about: trying to characterise exactly how the difference in approach presents musically (as opposed to purely sonically). In my experience, listeners will either 'get' what the Wadax is doing - and get it almost instantly - or they won't. There will always be a customer for CH or dCS, MSB or TotalDAC. They're not wrong, just fundamentally different in approach and result. It all depends on what you want from music and from your system. Interestingly, the C10 from CH is the first DAC I've heard which begins to encroach on the musical territory that has until now been the exclusive preserve of Wadax. It too is a shift away from previous digital replay solutions. It matters not to me where that advance comes from. I'm just happy to hear it. Meanwhile, having just had the opportunity to compare the Studio Player to an Antipodes/MSB combination, in that context the presentational differences and musical distinctions were even more obvious than I've previously reported... and not to my ears alone!
Whether my wife works for CH, Wadax, IBM, Cisco or Virgin Media (she's worked for them all over the years) really dosen't impact my opinions. As people who know me will doubtless attest, I know what I think and I'm not shy in explaining why. But hey, don't take my word for it. The evidence is all there. My views have remained remarkably consistent across years of writing/reviewing (irrespective of who my wife, family or friends work for). Unlike pretty much every other reviewer/commentator, I regularly present at audio shows, specifically demonstrating exactly what I've described in my articles. I express (and demonstrate) an opinion in the hope that it helps readers understand a product they might consider purchasing/using - or add to their understanding/appreciation of how and why that product (or the products they already own) might work for them. At the end of the day, it is just that: an opinion. You can and should listen to the product for yourself and decide whether you hear what I describe (or not) and agree with my conclusions (or not). That's the whole point. It's an attempt to aid the reader's understanding so that they can make up their own mind, not provide some definitive 'answer'. At best a review suggests what you might listen to and for. It can never tell you what to buy: it can certainly never tell you which product is 'best'.
Rather than present articles or reviews as some sort of absolutes, devoid of bias, I'm extremely clear about both my own prejudices and the process that has shaped and continues to shape them. I far prefer to offer in-depth coverage and commentary on the limited range of products I find truly worthwhile rather than attempting to cover everything under the sun. If you find what I write useful or thought provoking, that's great. If not, no one is making you read it.
@RoyGregory - thank you for chiming in to this thread. Like Matthias already wrote, thank you for clarification. I had two times the pleasure to attend your workshps at the Munich show. Two of the things I took away from these workshops are that your listening ability and your musical understanding are way above mine, but I'm learning.
And with my own CH C1.2, D15, X1 setup which i really like I can relate to your findings in the reviews about C1.2 and D1.5.
And because I'm not able to listen myself to the Studio Player your review with comparisons to the CH stuff and the experience from Elliot and other users here at WBF are kind of my only anchors for further decisions.
Due different reasons I have to scale down my beloved CH setup and with the anouncement of the Sudio Player I was hoping this could be my solution without loosing too much. But even with your very detailed review it's impossible to find the right decision for me without listening, I get that. Unfortunately my dealer who already offered me a trade in is too far away.
Yesterday I read again your review more attentive to find more insights. There are a couple of things I'd need your and Elliots help.
1. Like you I really like the high resolution and transparency of the D1.5 as a transport in conjunction with the C1.2 Mono and 2x X1. I really enjoy that singers are standing in front of me and hearing additional details like their breath and tiny sounds from their moving mouth. For me that's a step closer to realism.
My fear ist that with the described boldness of the Studio Player these fine details are lost.
But could this special musical quality of the Studio Player make me forget that it's not as detailed and transparent as my CH setup?
2. In my pure digital setup I'm quite happy with my C1.2 in controller mode without a preamp. I'm aware that a preamp is more than a volume control, but for me I can't justify the cost for an adequate device (CH L1 plus X1?) plus another interconnect and power cable. And all the efforts just for one input I'd use. From your review I take away that with the Studio Player an appropriate and capable preamp is mandatory to really enjoy the quality of the Wadax player. Do you maybe have a recommendation for a preamp which isn't at the high price level of CH Precision?
Interestingly in Elliot's experience with C1 and the Studio Player in controller mode is the other way around. But he refers to the older C1 before the upgrade and that's quite different. But at least he thinks that the volume control of the Studio Player is quite capable if someone like me don't want to use an extra preamp. I really was hoping that this could work out. The image of a setup with just the single piece Studio Player, the amps and the speakers is really charming.
And with my own CH C1.2, D15, X1 setup which i really like I can relate to your findings in the reviews about C1.2 and D1.5.
And because I'm not able to listen myself to the Studio Player your review with comparisons to the CH stuff and the experience from Elliot and other users here at WBF are kind of my only anchors for further decisions.
Due different reasons I have to scale down my beloved CH setup and with the anouncement of the Sudio Player I was hoping this could be my solution without loosing too much. But even with your very detailed review it's impossible to find the right decision for me without listening, I get that. Unfortunately my dealer who already offered me a trade in is too far away.
Yesterday I read again your review more attentive to find more insights. There are a couple of things I'd need your and Elliots help.
1. Like you I really like the high resolution and transparency of the D1.5 as a transport in conjunction with the C1.2 Mono and 2x X1. I really enjoy that singers are standing in front of me and hearing additional details like their breath and tiny sounds from their moving mouth. For me that's a step closer to realism.
My fear ist that with the described boldness of the Studio Player these fine details are lost.
But could this special musical quality of the Studio Player make me forget that it's not as detailed and transparent as my CH setup?
2. In my pure digital setup I'm quite happy with my C1.2 in controller mode without a preamp. I'm aware that a preamp is more than a volume control, but for me I can't justify the cost for an adequate device (CH L1 plus X1?) plus another interconnect and power cable. And all the efforts just for one input I'd use. From your review I take away that with the Studio Player an appropriate and capable preamp is mandatory to really enjoy the quality of the Wadax player. Do you maybe have a recommendation for a preamp which isn't at the high price level of CH Precision?
Interestingly in Elliot's experience with C1 and the Studio Player in controller mode is the other way around. But he refers to the older C1 before the upgrade and that's quite different. But at least he thinks that the volume control of the Studio Player is quite capable if someone like me don't want to use an extra preamp. I really was hoping that this could work out. The image of a setup with just the single piece Studio Player, the amps and the speakers is really charming.
I don't find better scale down number of boxes than Studio Player.
I don't use CD Transport so i'm waiting other solution.
If i don't find it, my Atlantis Server/Dac still has years of enjoy to bring me.....
I don't use CD Transport so i'm waiting other solution.
If i don't find it, my Atlantis Server/Dac still has years of enjoy to bring me.....
Elliot G.
Industry Expert
I have tried the 1.2 direct into an amp as well
Im not a fan I much preferred a preamp. The wadax directly is far better a solution with much better results however I still prefer it through my Riviera Preamp
This is one of those great, unanswerable questions. It attempts to compare not only apples with oranges, but pears with bananas too! There are too many unknowns here for any kind of definitive judgement:
The C1.2 Mono is a very different animal to the C1.2. Adding the X1 power supply to the equation further muddies the waters. In a six-box set-up, there are various ways of configuring the power supplies: do they have single or dual outputs; do they drive just the transport and head unit, just the DACs or all four? Each option delivers a none too subtle difference in performance. So, for example, in a twin or dual single supply situation, I would choose to feed the transport and head-unit - but that's because I have the temporal and dynamic authority from a line-stage to back up the digital front-end. If I was driving a power amp (or amps) direct, I'd use the X1 outputs on the DACs...
Then there's the question of the power amp itself (and how comfortable the DAC's output stage is driving it) and the speakers, their bandwidth and their interaction with the room. Finally, there's the question of the listener, their preferences, biases and expectations. All of these factors impact the decision to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the circumstances.
So - what do we know?
The Studio Player is certainly equipped to drive a power amp directly, with its variable output impedance helping significantly. That’s clearly one of its major attractions. But I’m neither buying nor selling here: I’m only interested in the musical considerations. In direct listening comparisons between the Wadax and the C1.2 (no X1 to keep relative price parity), using the A1.5 amplifier and Trilogy 995R mono-blocs, using Peak Consult Sinfonia speakers and locally stored files, the C1.2 consistently delivered greater clarity, transparency and control.
The Wadax and the C1.2 are significantly different in presentation. The Studio Player offers a more holistic vision of the music, with a natural sense of shape to phrases and rhythmic flow, a genuinely inviolving and expressive sound. The CH offers excellent resolution and note-to-note detail, a more precisely defined view of the recording/event - qualities that are significantly extended, along with a greater sense of temporal grip as you go Mono and add the external power supplies. That transparency, musical organisation and low-level detail are clearly things that you value and the six-box CH does them really, really well - which is what persuaded you to spend all that money in the first place.
By my rough calculation, the CH rig costs at least four-times the price of the Wadax, as well as having the advantage of separate enclosures and additional power supplies. Should you expect a single box solution to match the big rig, blow-for-blow. No, I don't think you should. But it is entirely possible for the one-box to offer something very different and possibly just as rewarding - and that is the situation here.
De-scaling from the six-box CH back to a two-box would be seriously disappointing. As Stereophonic points out, I don’t think that there’s a one-box solution that comes close to the all-round musical integrity and coherence of the Studio Player. Although at first blush, you might consider it less detailed and intimate than the C1.2 Mono, I believe that is a presentational difference. The CH majors on clarity and separation. The Wadax integrates its detail more closely and coherently – hence the sense of musical flow and human agency it brings to the performance. Make the change and at first you may well miss those micro-dynamic shifts and tiny details that stand out on the CH – but you’ll get a greater sense of human input, of bowing, note-weight and diction to compensate, a little like moving three or four rows back in a concert hall. If you have to down-size from six boxes to one, I don’t believe there’s a better solution than the Studio Player, but given your declared preference for detail and intimacy I would suggest that a line-stage really is the way to go.
Options? The L1 really is an excellent choice and hard to argue against, especially given your requirements. More affordable alternatives are few and far between (there are fewer great line-stages than any other product category). The Ayre K1xe was a fantastic, if slightly bulky unit, if you can find one. Rarer still, the Connoisseur 4.2LE (although that is two-box). The Tom Evans Vibe/Pulse or DNM 3Twin are hair-shirt choices, both with smaller footprints, although these last three are non-remoteunits. The VTL TL-6.5 II might also do the job in a one-box format. Finally, the SJS Model 7 is a superbly lucid (also non-remote) tube unit that doesn’t stray too far into warmth and wooliness.
It's also worth remembering that the Studio Player will have an as-yet un-auditioned external power supply option of its own. From past experience with the Pre 1 and Atlantis products, I would certainly anticipate this offering greater clarity, dynamics and apparent separation. Incidentally – there will also be a separate transport and streamer/DAC units in the Studio series, both superior in performance to the Player. They may not work for you, on space grounds, but as an Atlantis DAC/Server replacement, the new DAC plus power supply could be very interesting indeed…
I'm sorry to be less than emphatic in response, but as I hope I've explained, there are simply too many variables for a definitive judgement - which also helps explain how Elliot and I can have such different experiences and reach such different conclusions. Audio systems and upgrade choices are rarely black and white. This one slips well into shades of gray!
Roy,
You forgot to mention the upcoming Wadax Studio Clock, which can be incorporated into a Studio separates system.
You forgot to mention the upcoming Wadax Studio Clock, which can be incorporated into a Studio separates system.
Indeed, and it's definitely a consideration in terms of replacing the atlantis components, but in the context of replacing the six-box CH, part of the brief is to keep the box-count down. Generally speaking, I'd take the external PSU over the clock if two boxes is the limit, but ultimately, it's a premise that needs to be tested.
May I please ask you if it indeed certain by now that a stand alone (sa)cd-transport will be launched in the Studio series? I am asking because so far I have not received official confirmation of this by Wadax but of course I might have missed it.
Certain? Not sure anything's certain - but it is certainly the best information I have, as of the completion of the Studio Player review. Wadax says that, "the DAC/Server will be a similar price to the Studio Player, but offer superior performance, while the standalone CD/SACD player will also improve on the disc replay of the one-box unit." As yet, I'm not sure what the disc-to-DAC interface will be...
Thanks. In the Netherlands - but I suppose it is the same in the UK - there is a saying that two things are certain in our lifes: death and taxation. The Wadax Studio (sa)cd-player has not made it to this list yet … but apparently we might hope for it to do so.
@RoyGregory - I can't thank you enough for sharing with me your time, your knowledge and experience, I'm extremely grateful. Especially with all the variables your input is priceless.
Let me try to put things into more perspective and remove some variables.
It's not finally decided yet, but the chances are that I have to move my system from a dedicated room to the living room. That means less space for the system and WAF will come into play. That means further the less boxes the better, at least for my wife
. Yet we didn't even speak about the amps and the speakers And here's a short overview of my system:
1. One dedicated line goes directly into a 10x power distributor from S.I.N Audio.
Another dedicated line goes directly into a Synergistic Research Galileo SX ground block. The complete CH setup is connected to the ground block, only the C1.2 head unit is connected with signal and chassis ground.
Both lines are terminated with a Gigawatt circuit breaker.
2. D1.5 is connected to the C1.2 via HDLink connection and a clock cable over the Sync I/O boards, the C1.2 as clock master.
3. The C1.2 Mono was originally a C1 Mono which was fully upgraded around a year ago.
4. The 2x X1 have both dual outputs. One X1 feeds D1.5 and the C1.2 head unit, the other X1 accordingly the two DACs.
The DACs and the X1s have underneath Symposium Rollerblocks (double stack) and are placed on Symposium ISIS racks
5. D1.5, C1.2 head unit and the ground block reside on an Artesania Exotery rack with Carbon Fiber Linear Arms. The D1.5 is placed on an extra Symposium Quantum platform, the C1.2 head unit on a Symposium Ultra platform. Both CH units are equipped with CH titanium spikes from the 10 series on copper spike shoes.
6. 2x M1.1 in Mono mode with 10% Global Feedback and -3 Gain. Both amps are placed with their composite spikes on copper spike shoes onto Symposium Ultra platforms which sits on Artesania Aire floor platforms with Carbon Fiber Linear Arms.
7. Speakers were originally YG Sonja 2.2 and were fully upgraded to the new 3.2 version last year. This new 3-series is a completely different beast and needs a lot more care with room-setup because of the stronger and deeper bass.
Attached are two pictures of my system to get a better impression.
The complete system is placed between the speakers and I'm aware that it's not ideal.
The music I like goes from early music interpretations with Accordone, Christina Pluhar, Jordi Savall, etc, also classical and baroque music from Beethoven (btw thanks for the recommendation for the 9 symphonies with Jordi Savall), Mozart, Stravinsky, Bach, Vivaldi, etc. up to 70ies japanese Jazz with Tsuyoshi Yamamoto, Isao Suzuki, etc. and also 80ies and 90ies music from my youth with Eurythmics, Depeche Mode, Yello, Art Of Noise, Laurie Anderson, Kraftwerk, Portishead, Massive Attack. And there's also PJ Harvey, Lamb, Soap & Skin, Roisin Murphy, Ryuichi Sakamoto, etc.
Of course as you wrote I can't and don't expect that a single box solution will match the 6-box rig. But if the Studio Player can bring other rewarding elements then it's worth to really take it into consideration. And hopefully there's even room for a preamp, let's see. If I understand you correctly, a capable preamp could bring more detail and intimacy into play in conjunction with the Studio Player?
And also the external power supply could change the balance considerably.
It's really very tempting to go this route and 3 boxes are still better than 6 boxes
And thanks a lot for your preamp recommendations. I'm aware that a L1 would be a great choice, especially in conjunction with the M1.1 and X1. With X1, it's getting big again with 4 boxes. I'll look into your other recommmendations which some I don't even heard about.
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