Hi! First time poster. I have two Revel M-106 stand mounted speakers, a Hegel80 amp (75 watts per channel) and an ancient Rotel CD player from 1999. I only use it as a transport - I use the DAC in the Hegel amp. On many recordings, the sound is overly bright and harsh. Very brittle highs. How can I warm it up? I was thinking of new speakers, such as Harbeth or Dynaudio. I know that's not cheap. Would a more current CD player with a better DAC make a difference? I'm open to suggestions.
Warmer Sound
- Thread starter jdkleinman
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I don’t know about those speakers, but there is a testing review and they came out as ok/good.
Revel M106 Bookshelf Speaker Review
This is a review and detailed measurements of the Revel M106 bookshelf speaker. It was kindly purchased and drop shipped to me. It is not a new sample but came to me with full packaging and protective wrapper. The M106 costs US $1,000 each or $2,000 for a pair. It is only sold through dealer...
www.audiosciencereview.com
You could try to rotate them so they are point more straight into the room, or even towed out a bit.
They’re book shelf speakers, so I am assuming that you do not want something big.
Maybe a picture of the room as well?
And how loud to you listen to the music?
The 106’s start trailing off below 100Hz, and maybe 50-60 Hz is 3dB down.
Are you also yearning for more deep base? Or is it solely just too harsh/bright?
I doubt it, but a DAC with some EQ would allow one to soften up the high frequencies.
If you were looking to compare, then dragging your Rotel CD player and some music you know around, would allow you to compare things at a brick and mortar store.
Alternatively, if you used an 1/8” to RCA to jack from an iPhone into an input on the Hegel, then you could compare the Rotel CD player to the iPhone using say Spotify.
That would give you point of comparison… if that is also bright, then it is more likely the speakers, room, or the amp.
I would not discount the room as being potentially involved.
I use a tubes for digital. Smooths the sound out nicely. I'm also a believer in garbage in equals garbage out so having good recordings for playback & good up to date playback source components to start with is very important, at least to me.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion.
^True^… but we do not know that the old CD used as a transport is garage?
(Hence the suggesting of using the iPhone as a comparison point.)
It could be DAC and transport… But The room, speakers, and amp could be mechanisms.
Figuring out which one, can eliminate some unnecessary trails and expense.
Potentially it could be many things. If it were me I would start with the recording followed by the playback components.
Some recordings are just garbage but people still buy them for their own reasons. I mostly have CD's that were manufactured from the year 2000 forward. Prior to that the digital recordings aren't so good, at least to my ears.
Just my opinions.
Firstly welcome to the forum
Hmmm … as respondents have mentioned already the problem might be anywhere along the audio chain up to and incluing your room ( reflective surfaces etc ) primarily I would suspect source media , Does the effect you mention occur with every CD , or a select few ? Keep a record of which CD’s cause the issue . Secondly I would suspect the DAC if *All* CD’s are playing brightly.
I've been down this road a couple times before, as I'm someone with delicate ears and cannot handle harsh sounding treble.
A couple quick tips that worked for me:
Speakers with soft-dome tweeters. Your Revel's got an aluminum driver and although metal is generally considered more "accurate" than fabric tweeters, I always found them to be unlistenable. Dynaudio uses fabric tweeters, but you may also want to consider an older Spendor model.
Tubed DAC: you can usually find a secondhand MHDT DAC on USAM. The Havana model is very smooth.
Cables: You don't mention which ones you're using or how you hook up your components to the mains. Cabling, especially power, has a lot to do with harsh sounding treble. Vintage Cardas cables are quite good at rolling off the highs.
A couple quick tips that worked for me:
Speakers with soft-dome tweeters. Your Revel's got an aluminum driver and although metal is generally considered more "accurate" than fabric tweeters, I always found them to be unlistenable. Dynaudio uses fabric tweeters, but you may also want to consider an older Spendor model.
Tubed DAC: you can usually find a secondhand MHDT DAC on USAM. The Havana model is very smooth.
Cables: You don't mention which ones you're using or how you hook up your components to the mains. Cabling, especially power, has a lot to do with harsh sounding treble. Vintage Cardas cables are quite good at rolling off the highs.
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Thanks for all the replies! I listen to a lot of blues. I review music for Living Blues. The treble issue varies a lot by recording. Most Alligator recordings (ie Toronzo Canon, Chris Kingfish) sound great. A lot of material from Little Village, such as DK Harrell and Alabama Mike, sounds too bright. On the rock side, The Goat's Head Soup reissue sounds perfect. The Southern Rock Opera reissue from DBT sounds brittle.
My living room is pretty live. Hardwood floors and plaster walls with just one small rug. I'll post a picture when I get home tonight. I am planning to listen to Harbeth and Dynaudio this month. Thanks for all the responses!
My living room is pretty live. Hardwood floors and plaster walls with just one small rug. I'll post a picture when I get home tonight. I am planning to listen to Harbeth and Dynaudio this month. Thanks for all the responses!
I suspect that with a little experimentation with a few , as discreet or otherwise as you / yours are comfortabe with , soft furnishings , aimed at the usual suspect areas , rear and front wall , floor , first reflection points etc would be a good place to start , if effective then you know that you are on the right track , there are also physical room treatments that you might consider. The trick being to take the edge off your room with out choking the life out of the music .
@Agent86 makes a good point regarding tweeter material , and yes Harbeth would be a decent place to start however there are several options that utilise soft dome tweeters that you might look into .
Awaiting the picture… but some ideas for now…
To me plaster has a way better sound than drywall.
I suspect that the room is the main focus point.
If you were a green thumb, then a couple of ficus plants would be dandy to place in the corners.
If you‘re a Buddhist, then use some prayer flags.
If you’re into S/W art, then use some Navajo rugs work well.
Hello, I am also a big fan of the Blues. I attend shows a couple of times a month. If you are open to auditioning new speakers, I would also consider a Zu Audio loudspeaker with something like a Yamamoto amp.
As you well know, Blues music is all about conveying emotion, and Zu loudspeakers with a warm SET would be hard to beat to bring every ounce of that emotion to your home. (Zu does offer a home trial period.)
Can't wait to turn mine on, as I type this.... But that's for my tastes. Good luck in your journey!
As you well know, Blues music is all about conveying emotion, and Zu loudspeakers with a warm SET would be hard to beat to bring every ounce of that emotion to your home. (Zu does offer a home trial period.)
Can't wait to turn mine on, as I type this.... But that's for my tastes. Good luck in your journey!
Glad to meet another blues fan! I've got three reviews in the new issue of Living Blues. I love live recordings, and I like artists who make keys and horns a part of their sound. Indianola Mississippi Seeds by BB King is one of my desert island discs. I'll Play the Blues for You by Albert King is another. I will research Zu.
It is very difficult to pinpoint a specific complaint about sound to a specific piece of equipment. You don’t mention what cables you are using or the rack and platforms on which your equipment sits. Line conditioners and even wall outlets all have a profound individual and collective effect on audio reproduction. I know this after 35 years in high end audio. I really don’t want to recommend equipment purchases. Find a good audio store and borrow equipment for a few days and see what differences it makes in your audio chain.
Sometimes, but not always…
However the OP said that the room is very live, and that the sound is harsh, bright and brittle.
So looking at the room and some easy treatments to quell that, as well as some work with the speaker placement can potentially get the OP a ways towards it being better.
Power cords, and power filtering will not do a lot towards addressIng the live room.
But demoing some gear to evaluate in situ is a great recommendation.
try a different CD player and don't use spdif as that has its own issues all together.
You don't have a subwoofer? That would certainly help as well as experimenting with toe-in.
Rob
It’s hot right now even near the coast.Check out the recent post on Woofer & Tweet. That may help
Thanks for recommendations! I tremendously enjoyed re-listening to those albums. I believe both BB King and Albert King have always used a horn section, instead of harmonica - definitely a more sophisticated sound. (But I love harmonica also!) I also enjoyed Luther Allison Bad News is Coming from roughly the same time period as part of the same listening session. No horns, but it's definitely a very under-rated album. And also some Otis Rush: I Wonder Why on the TOPS album is sublime and the album is supported by horns. Interestingly, Otis Rush's wife selected that song to be played as the finale at his memorial when his whole family was on stage....
Anyways, back to Zu... the speaker is a chameleon: if you power it with a lean amp, it will be the opposite of what you're looking for. But with a warm amplifier, such as the SET I mentioned above, it will deliver the emotional goods that no "audiophile speakers" can. If you pursue it, the guys at Zu can make some additional amplifier recommendations that will hit the sweet spot. Good luck with whatever direction you go
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