Neutral power amp recommendations?

[thedudeabides]

No, not saying they are 'lost', so yes you are mistaken. I merely pointed out a common problem with many solid state amp designs going back to the inception of the transistor. Someone provided a link to an MBL amp measurement which included a distortion vs frequency measurement.

Thanks for your clarification. So because MBL amps are SS, they have this "common problem" (shared by other current hi end SS amps designers) that causes inherent, audible distortion artifacts. And that your amp designs resolve this issue. And, as a result, sound better (less distortion supported by technical data) than MBL and other SS amps.

 

[Atmasphere]

No, 100% wrong,
Read about comparison by contrast method

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one. When Ron asked about transparency he didn't specify anything else. Many low distortion solid state amps are more transparent then many tube amps (owing to being lower distortion), but that isn't the same thing as saying they are musical. But as you know transparency and musicality can be in the same place at the same time. Its not lost on me that a bit of 2nd and 3rd harmonic of the correct phase can allow the ear to make out detail. I''ve mentioned this before- I think that is an area that I'd love to see more research but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[A-Line]

#Sparkle, #Wetness, #Dryness , ect

I think that a urban dictionary for non-audiohiles, like me, would be useful in order to understand terminology used by so many audiophiles and glossy mag reviewers these days...just saying.

 

[Atmasphere]

Thanks for your clarification. So because MBL amps are SS, they have this "common problem" (shared by other current hi end SS amps designers) that causes inherent, audible distortion artifacts. And that your amp designs resolve this issue. And, as a result, sound better (less distortion supported by technical data) than MBL and other SS amps.

I think this needs more clarification. Any SET resolves this issue as well, since any zero feedback amp will not have distortion rise with frequency. So you can see that we're not the ones to have solved this issue. If you read the article by Bruno Putzeys I linked you would know that already. But it is true that none of our amps have distortion rise with frequency so yes they do 'resolve' that issue.

I regard Distortion vs Frequency as far more important than THD. IMO, THD isn't important unless the distortion rise problem is taken care of first, after that the distortion spectra must be right (lower ordered harmonics thus able to mask higher orders, which BTW won't happen if distortion rises with frequency); if those two parameters are satisfied then THD takes on more significance.

The distortion rise with frequency is often less problematic with tube amps since they use much less feedback than most solid state amps. This is one of the things that has kept tubes in business the last 65 years since the inception of the transistor. Usually when a succeeding art appears, the prior art vanishes. That does not happen if the succeeding art isn't actually better. So you don't have to understand the engineering to know that tubes have a darn good reason to still be around. The market is giving that answer.

If you read the Putzeys article, you should know why feedback can have this deleterious effect in solid state amps.

 

[thedudeabides]

I think this needs more clarification.

Perhaps but I don't understand the tech side of the equation and don't want to. Can we get real please. How many people, absent those that design audio amplification circuitry, have the technical backgound to understand the Putzeys article?

Simple question if you wish to respond. Is my last post you cited above accurate, not accurate, depends or none of the above? Best.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I do not know what is this jumper setting but if your comment is correct then only this Ridiculous jumper setting in MBL is enough to believe there is no smart designer in their company.

How can I buy MBL stock and short your stock?

 

[Ron Resnick]

Many low distortion solid state amps are more transparent then many tube amps

This is a very general statement, so it is easy to agree with.

I think the Einstein OTL (in a familiar system) and your Novacron (in an unfamiliar system) may be the most transparent amplifiers I have ever heard. I suspect that I would find OTL amps in general to be at the top of my topology list for the characteristic of transparency.

 

[tima]

#Sparkle, #Wetness, #Dryness , ect

I think that a urban dictionary for non-audiohiles, like me, would be useful in order to understand terminology used by so many audiophiles and glossy mag reviewers these days...just saying.

Heh.

The words you cite are not typical within the standard reviewing vocabulary. I see them as idiosyncratic to their user and are more likely to draw questions or confuse than to explain or describe. Although neither complete nor universally agreed upon, you might find something you're looking for in J.Gordon Holt's The Audio Gossary.

 

[A-Line]

Heh.

The words you cite are not typical within the standard reviewing vocabulary. I see them as idiosyncratic to their user and are more likely to draw questions or confuse than to explain or describe. Although neither complete nor universally agreed upon, you might find something you're looking for in J.Gordon Holt's The Audio Gossary.

Thanks.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

I do not know what is this jumper setting but if your comment is correct then only this Ridiculous jumper setting in MBL is enough to believe there is no smart designer in their company.

MBL speakers are incredibly innovative and unique. I admire how various manufacturers are creating speakers that break away from conventional, mundane designs, opting for something more exciting and unconventional.

It all comes down to personal preference when deciding if one enjoys that type of presentation. Personally, it's not my cup of tea, but I can understand how others might appreciate it. I fail to see how your criticism of this company adds any value to the conversation

 

[metei]

Hi everyone,

I’m back after my DAC journey post and I’m now looking for a power amp recommendation.

In short, I’m looking for something more neutral without being cold or analytical. Important to have a low noise floor and to sound good at low volumes (in my experience some amps need to be cranked up to hear what they’re capable of).

About me: I have aggressive tinnitus and it is triggered pretty easily by harsh highs. I do all my listening in quiet at low volumes (~50db). Want to stay away from anything hyper detailed, dry, analytical, etc. I originally architected my system around a ‘warmer’ sound but have come more recently to appreciate neutrality and transparency.

Edit: Also forgot to mention, looking for solid state, not tubes. And price would be under $30k.

Current setup
Source: Innuos Pulsar
DAC + volume control: Playback Designs MPD-8
Speakers: Vienna Acoustics Beethoven Concert Grand Reference (90db, 4ohm)
Power: Transparent Powerwave
Cabling: Various, no single loom (yet). Have Raven Audio, Transparent, Wireworld, FTA, Inakustik, Acoustic Revive

Thanks in advance!

Hello V,
Chatting with a friend, Pilium popped up. With all the above, I guess Pilium would be a perfect match for Your needs. They were the star of High End Munich 2024. Not only they were in many rooms, they were always in the rooms that sounded right, natural and beautiful for me..

 

[Atmasphere]

Perhaps but I don't understand the tech side of the equation and don't want to. Can we get real please. How many people, absent those that design audio amplification circuitry, have the technical backgound to understand the Putzeys article?

Simple question if you wish to respond. Is my last post you cited above accurate, not accurate, depends or none of the above? Best.

I think few will understand Putzeys article, but there are some on this thread that will.

I don't regard this post by you:

Thanks for your clarification. So because MBL amps are SS, they have this "common problem" (shared by other current hi end SS amps designers) that causes inherent, audible distortion artifacts. And that your amp designs resolve this issue. And, as a result, sound better (less distortion supported by technical data) than MBL and other SS amps.

-as accurate. Its not because MBL amps are solid state- any amp with feedback that also lacks Gain Bandwidth Product to support the feedback used (per Bruno's article) will have this problem. Our amps do resolve this issue but so do SETs or any amp that lacks feedback. The trick is to have the feedback but also not have the rise of distortion. A cake and eat it too sort of thing.

But here's the important bit: I don't regard MBL designers as incompetent! Instead the real issue has nothing to do with the technology so much as it has to do with the understanding of the ear's hearing rules and so how important it is that distortion must not rise with frequency- IOW, how the ear hears rather than anything else. That bit is widely misunderstood by some very talented designers! So we have 65 years of solid state amps that sound bright and harsh- again, its why tubes are still around.

The tech side, FWIW, is as real as it gets. You don't have to read or understand the formulae presented; that won't be like not reading and just looking at the pictures. Again, I was not attacking MBL in any way; since there was a link to the measurements I used that as an example. Distortion rise with frequency is such a common and audible problem with solid state A or AB amps any article with measurements showing distortion vs frequency could have been used.

Putzeys article explains why. I included it to be thorough in my explanation.

 

[thedudeabides]

So we have 65 years of solid state amps that sound bright and harsh

Thanks for the response. Like all generalizations, the one above is simply not true. However, given that you design tube audio equipment, I understand and respect your opinion. Best.