What are the Top Horn Speakers in the World Today? Vox Olympian vs Avantgarde Trio vs ???

[bonzo75]

All corner horn designs like JBL Hartsfield, Vitavox CN-191 and Klipschorn use the corner walls to extend the horn and get lower bass cutoff. Back in the days of mono there was no concern about corner placement affecting imaging and soundstage...it was mono. The speakers size was still some concern but you only had to accommodate one of them. None of these are hybrid or have bass boost (like Avantgarde bass horns, which are part horn and part sealed box). Folded horns are how most people who want true horn bass do it and there are other solutions. The Pnoe is long enough but it is huge. The Aries Cerat Symphonia is long enough as well but doesn't get as deep as a big vented box, for example. Pnoe and Symphonia don't need a corner but the gain from a corner or rear wall will help them as well...when they are well out into a room they can sound somewhat lean.

Corner horns obviously need a corner. But we were not discussing corner horns, and even in vintage horns there are many non-corner horns

 

[morricab]

Corner horns obviously need a corner. But we were not discussing corner horns, and even in vintage horns there are many non-corner horns

We are discussing all horns and that includes corner horns.

 

[christoph]

Another big horn loudspeaker system up against the front wall. WHY???

View attachment 127578

(Photo courtesy of Matej Isek)

- Lack of space?
- Family room where the stereo has low importance (to the wife ) ?
- ...

 

[zerostargeneral]

Bonzo,

I find that using boundaries to boost can be a disturbance to listening. Jack D summed it perfectly for me; "no bass is better than bad bass".

Every time I listen to the Contendo online I wonder if I could start a cult big enough to purchase them.

The above is my way of expressing that these speakers have a grip and coherence that I have never heard from any multi-way effort. I would go as far to say "worth the coin" As an added bonus insane bass speed and pressure.

The man must be a master an alchemist of yore, the parts alone are average yet the whole stands absolute, zenith without current peer.

I wager the waiting list is both REAL and lengthy.

Kindest regards,(need a ponzi) G.

 

[Ron Resnick]

If the horn is large enough combined with narrow directivity, it can be placed up against a front wall or in a corner without a detrimental effect. But we're talking much larger horn then.

View attachment 127580

"Without a detrimental effect" is subjective. To my ears and experience and preference having the sound-stage develop behind the plane of the speakers is a very different presentation than a flat presentation with little depth and sound-staging, or than a sensation that the sound is projecting towards me. To me the difference in presentation results in an overall experience with a greater delta than a change of cable or component or even a source. It's just a whole different sonic experience to me.

Again, totally subjective, but speakers against the front wall just don't provide a presentation that I cotton to.

Anytime I see speakers close up against the front wall (other than corner horns, of course, which are designed to be up against the front wall) a voice inside my head says "pull them into the room!"

As Peter wrote, if the set-up is a "lifestyle choice" or substantially for show and decoration, then none of this matters.

PS: My experience at Marty's and Todd's makes me want to pull the Pendragons another 2 feet into the room. It's not a complicated formula: the further into the room the loudspeakers are, the greater the depth and realism of sound-staging I hear.

 

[Bjorn]

"Without a detrimental effect" is subjective. To my ears and experience and preference having the sound-stage develop behind the plane of the speakers is a very different presentation than a flat presentation with little depth and sound-staging, or than a sensation that the sound is projecting towards me. To me the difference in presentation results in an overall experience with a greater delta than a change of cable or component or even a source. It's just a whole different sonic experience to me.

Again, totally subjective, but speakers against the front wall just don't provide a presentation that I cotton to.

Anytime I see speakers close up against the front wall (other than corner horns, of course, which are designed to be up against the front wall) a voice inside my head says "pull them into the room!"

As Peter wrote, if the set-up is a "lifestyle choice" or substantially for show and decoration, then none of this matters.

PS: My experience at Marty's and Todd's makes me want to pull the Pendragons another 2 feet into the room. It's not a complicated formula: the further into the room the loudspeakers are, the greater the depth and realism of sound-staging I hear.

First of all, it will depend on the directivity of the speaker. If it's sufficiently narrow and broadband uniform there are no audible reflections from nearby boundaries. Typical commerical horns don't meet these requirements though.

However, even with a large horn with the right dispersion pattern, you loose the "visual" depth with placement up agains walls. Which is what you see what your eyes. When we see a great distance behind the speakers, our brain pereceives it as depth and adds it. And it's also gone when you close your eyes.

 

[sbnx]

"Without a detrimental effect" is subjective. To my ears and experience and preference having the sound-stage develop behind the plane of the speakers is a very different presentation than a flat presentation with little depth and sound-staging, or than a sensation that the sound is projecting towards me. To me the difference in presentation results in an overall experience with a greater delta than a change of cable or component or even a source. It's just a whole different sonic experience to me.

Again, totally subjective, but speakers against the front wall just don't provide a presentation that I cotton to.

Anytime I see speakers close up against the front wall (other than corner horns, of course, which are designed to be up against the front wall) a voice inside my head says "pull them into the room!"

As Peter wrote, if the set-up is a "lifestyle choice" or substantially for show and decoration, then none of this matters.

PS: My experience at Marty's and Todd's makes me want to pull the Pendragons another 2 feet into the room. It's not a complicated formula: the further into the room the loudspeakers are, the greater the depth and realism of sound-staging I hear.

Ron, I forgot, what is the length of your listening space?

 

[Ron Resnick]

However, even with a large horn with the right dispersion pattern, you loose the "visual" depth with placement up agains walls. Which is what you see what your eyes. When we see a great distance behind the speakers, our brain pereceives it as depth and adds it. And it's also gone when you close your eyes.

If you are suggesting that the sonic sensation and presentation that the sound-stage develops wholly behind the plane of the speakers is a visually-induced delusion, than I strongly disagree. It doesn't go away when I close my eyes. In fact, sometimes I close my eyes to hear it more clearly without the interference of the visual sense.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Bonzo,

I find that using boundaries to boost can be a disturbance to listening. Jack D summed it perfectly for me; "no bass is better than bad bass".

Every time I listen to the Contendo online I wonder if I could start a cult big enough to purchase them.

The above is my way of expressing that these speakers have a grip and coherence that I have never heard from any multi-way effort. I would go as far to say "worth the coin" As an added bonus insane bass speed and pressure.

The man must be a master an alchemist of yore, the parts alone are average yet the whole stands absolute, zenith without current peer.

I wager the waiting list is both REAL and lengthy.

Kindest regards,(need a ponzi) G.

+1 on the Contendo… beauty in design should not just be done… it should also be seen to be done.

 

[Bjorn]

If you are suggesting that the sonic sensation and presentation that the sound-stage develops wholly behind the plane of the speakers is a visually-induced delusion, than I strongly disagree. It doesn't go away when I close my eyes. In fact, sometimes I close my eyes to hear it more clearly without the interference of the visual sense.

I didn't say that.

To sum up: There are not detrimental effect with a horn with the right dispersion pattern placed in a corner other than the visual depth loss.
But almost no one has heard such horn speakers either. It requires a very large horn with a very uniform directivity. There's a good reason very frew brands show directivity measurements these days.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I didn't say that.

Then what is the meaning of: "When we see a great distance behind the speakers, our brain pereceives it as depth and adds it. And it's also gone when you close your eyes"?

 

[Audiohertz2]

Usually that is to boost bass, as horns are not usually long enough to get well into the bass range and the walls extend this, and not so much due to underpowered amplifiers. A speaker that is well over 100dB sensitivity will do just fine with a 2-3 watt amp in most domestic situations.

That speaker is not a 100Db in the bass region usually and yes you do get gains broadband not just in the bass regions when corner loading ...

Regards

 

[Audiohertz2]

All corner horn designs like JBL Hartsfield, Vitavox CN-191 and Klipschorn use the corner walls to extend the horn and get lower bass cutoff. Back in the days of mono there was no concern about corner placement affecting imaging and soundstage...it was mono. The speakers size was still some concern but you only had to accommodate one of them. None of these are hybrid or have bass boost (like Avantgarde bass horns, which are part horn and part sealed box). Folded horns are how most people who want true horn bass do it and there are other solutions. The Pnoe is long enough but it is huge. The Aries Cerat Symphonia is long enough as well but doesn't get as deep as a big vented box, for example. Pnoe and Symphonia don't need a corner but the gain from a corner or rear wall will help them as well...when they are well out into a room they can sound somewhat lean.

These designs were specific to add bass gains by using room gain from the corners , once power was discovered and imaging became important they disappeared..

BTW all speakers gain from being closed to the wall ..!

 

[Audiohertz2]

Bonzo,

I find that using boundaries to boost can be a disturbance to listening. Jack D summed it perfectly for me; "no bass is better than bad bass".

Every time I listen to the Contendo online I wonder if I could start a cult big enough to purchase them.

The above is my way of expressing that these speakers have a grip and coherence that I have never heard from any multi-way effort. I would go as far to say "worth the coin" As an added bonus insane bass speed and pressure.

The man must be a master an alchemist of yore, the parts alone are average yet the whole stands absolute, zenith without current peer.

I wager the waiting list is both REAL and lengthy.

Kindest regards,(need a ponzi) G.

Is there a link to this Contendo line never heard of it ..?

 

[Audiohertz2]

+1 on the Contendo… beauty in design should not just be done… it should also be seen to be done.

So Contendo is the top Contender ..

 

[jeff1225]

All corner horn designs like JBL Hartsfield, Vitavox CN-191 and Klipschorn use the corner walls to extend the horn and get lower bass cutoff. Back in the days of mono there was no concern about corner placement affecting imaging and soundstage...it was mono. The speakers size was still some concern but you only had to accommodate one of them. None of these are hybrid or have bass boost (like Avantgarde bass horns, which are part horn and part sealed box). Folded horns are how most people who want true horn bass do it and there are other solutions. The Pnoe is long enough but it is huge. The Aries Cerat Symphonia is long enough as well but doesn't get as deep as a big vented box, for example. Pnoe and Symphonia don't need a corner but the gain from a corner or rear wall will help them as well...when they are well out into a room they can sound somewhat lean.

Actually not true regarding the Hartsfields. The Hartsfields have a completely sealed back and do not require a corner to extend bass. The Hartsfield is a unique patented design and is similar to the Tannoy Westminster's or Autographs. The Klipschorn and the Vitavox (Vitavox licensed the design from Klipsch) are identical, open back designs that require a corner to seal the back and produce bass.

 

[Audiohertz2]

Ok found the Contendo Mk2 , an AC design , masterpiece looking speakers for sure..!

Uses a Raal tweeter it seems ...!

 

[morricab]

Actually not true regarding the Hartsfields. The Hartsfields have a completely sealed back and do not require a corner to extend bass. The Hartsfield is a unique patented design and is similar to the Tannoy Westminster's or Autographs. The Klipschorn and the Vitavox (Vitavox licensed the design from Klipsch) are identical, open back designs that require a corner to seal the back and produce bass.

Ok, got that wrong. I guess they made it corner friendly for other reasons.

 

[morricab]

Ok found the Contendo Mk2 , an AC design , masterpiece looking speakers for sure..!

Uses a Raal tweeter it seems ...!

He uses a Raal tweeter on all his speakers.

 

[jeff1225]

Ok, got that wrong. I guess they made it corner friendly for other reasons.

From what I've read, the Klipschorn was wildly successful and the JBL dealers were clamoring for a competitive offering.