What Brands of Cables to Fans of High-Efficiency Speakers Use? (Not Hi-fi Sounding!)

[Cellcbern]

Agreed for the most part with Dave's analysis.

Although I also find the actual performance in a given system not entirely predictable from one to another, I generally tend to prefer the Duelund 12 GA's ME (Musical Engagement) factor overall, but I have very little recent experience with the older/vintage cables.

Just my opinion and personal taste - not stated in any way as some absolute fact...

Analysis?

 

[Hear Here]

Thanks!

I have also the Duelands - been using for a while now. Got 16GA and 12GA. Also some older vintage WE tinned copper wire in 10GA.

I might try the shielded Mogami or Gotham just out of curiosity and also cos I am using field coils so can’t harm having that extra shield on it I guess.

Bill - not sure where in UK you live, but you'd be welcome to borrow my Goltham cables (4m) or the Cableyne ones (3.5m). I'm in Portsmouth.

In fact I'd be very interested to hear your comments on how they sound with your horns. I had thought of using the 16 Gauge Duelund, but advised by Jim Smith to go for the 12 gauge. Peter

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Bill - not sure where in UK you live, but you'd be welcome to borrow my Goltham cables (4m) or the Cableyne ones (3.5m). In fact I'd be very interested to hear your comments on how they sound on your horns. I'm in Portsmouth. Peter

Hi Peter,

I am in Hampshire albeit North of the county. It is a very kind offer - I will just order some and tell you how they are versus my existing stuff - no problem.

Best.

 

[Cellcbern]

If you are testing/comparing the Duelund tinned copper wire be aware of the following:

From Jeff Day:

".....For some reason, tinned-copper cables are discombobulated by taking them in and out of a system more than other conductors within the realm of my experience, and then they also take quite a while to settle back down again, making their sound for comparison purposes a frustrating moving target. This can make you second guess the results you're getting with them, and you'll end up chasing your tail in a rather unproductive circle until you figure out what's going on, and then you'll feel silly for having done it. Don't ask me how I know....".

 

[Audiophile Bill]

If you are testing/comparing the Duelund tinned copper wire be aware of the following:

From Jeff Day:

".....For some reason, tinned-copper cables are discombobulated by taking them in and out of a system more than other conductors within the realm of my experience, and then they also take quite a while to settle back down again, making their sound for comparison purposes a frustrating moving target. This can make you second guess the results you're getting with them, and you'll end up chasing your tail in a rather unproductive circle until you figure out what's going on, and then you'll feel silly for having done it. Don't ask me how I know....".

Thanks. I have been running Duelands constant for at least 4 years so feel relatively confident nowadays with their sound in several of my systems.

 

[Hear Here]

Thanks. I have been running Duelands constant for at least 4 years so feel relatively confident nowadays with their sound in several of my systems.

From what Jeff Day seems to be saying, Duelund cables will sound different if returned to one's system after a period out of it. This sounds absurd unless he also suggests that they will sound different on the day you get back from holiday compared with the day you left home! Any logic or physics in this extraordinary assertion I wonder?

Bill - Do you hear different sound one day to the next, or after a period of non-use? It's only simple wire after all! After 4 years of using Duelund, do you consider it "as good as any speaker cable" or "other cables costing x-times as much are better sounding"? Did they take long to bed in before delivering their best sound? Thanks

Peter

 

[Audiophile Bill]

From what Jeff Day seems to be saying, Duelund cables will sound different if returned to one's system after a period out of it. This sounds absurd unless he also suggests that they will sound different on the day you get back from holiday compared with the day you left home! Any logic or physics in this extraordinary assertion I wonder?

Bill - Do you hear different sound one day to the next, or after a period of non-use? It's only simple wire after all! After 4 years of using Duelund, do you consider it "as good as any speaker cable" or "other cables costing x-times as much are better sounding"? Did they take long to bed in before delivering their best sound? Thanks

Peter

I haven’t noticed this day to day variation he speaks of - personally I don’t believe that and just think that often we listen to our system in different moods from day to day and that has an impact on how much we enjoy it in that moment.

I found the signature to be quite consistent from the get go. I would say that they are on the warmer side of neutral, that they have a little recessing on the brilliance region but that can well be very useful. They have an almost golden glow to them in some ways. I have used them in both interconnects, speaker cables, and I even made a usb cable with their solid core conductors around 5 years back for my Lampi GG.

They didn’t take long to bed into my system tbh. In terms of their overall quality - I think they will help many systems that are more spotly lit or need a helping hand with sounding a little more tonally full - that is if your system is a little dry or analytical they could well help you get some balance if you don’t solve it elsewhere. In absolute terms versus audiophile cables and using audiophile terminology, they don’t have the black backgrounds / quietest noise floor of the “best” nor do they have the bass depth, power or texture of the “best” nor do they have absolute extension in air of the treble of the “best” but they do have an ability to make things more palatable. If your system is tip top balanced beautifully everywhere my gut says they will hold you back in absolute terms but for 95% of audiophiles living the “struggle” they will likely be worthy tonic. If you are an audiophile wanting audiophile type sounds then these are definitely not for you. If you just want to listen to music and not worry, they are worth a punt.

Imho ymmv etc

 

[Hear Here]

I haven’t noticed this day to day variation he speaks of - personally I don’t believe that and just think that often we listen to our system in different moods from day to day and that has an impact on how much we enjoy it in that moment.

I found the signature to be quite consistent from the get go. I would say that they are on the warmer side of neutral, that they have a little recessing on the brilliance region but that can well be very useful. They have an almost golden glow to them in some ways. I have used them in both interconnects, speaker cables, and I even made a usb cable with their solid core conductors around 5 years back for my Lampi GG.

They didn’t take long to bed into my system tbh. In terms of their overall quality - I think they will help many systems that are more spotly lit or need a helping hand with sounding a little more tonally full - that is if your system is a little dry or analytical they could well help you get some balance if you don’t solve it elsewhere. In absolute terms versus audiophile cables and using audiophile terminology, they don’t have the black backgrounds / quietest noise floor of the “best” nor do they have the bass depth, power or texture of the “best” nor do they have absolute extension in air of the treble of the “best” but they do have an ability to make things more palatable. If your system is tip top balanced beautifully everywhere my gut says they will hold you back in absolute terms but for 95% of audiophiles living the “struggle” they will likely be worthy tonic. If you are an audiophile wanting audiophile type sounds then these are definitely not for you. If you just want to listen to music and not worry, they are worth a punt.

Imho ymmv etc

Thanks Bill - that's most useful. I've had my 12 gauge Duelunds for a week now and find them very acceptable with my Avantgarde Duo XD horns. I had earlier been using the slightly aggressive Cabledyne Reference Silver cables, but their matching jumpers (bought for my earlier Duos) were not quite long enough, so I've been using 16 gauge Duelund jumpers between the main terminals (bass and top) and the mid-horn ones. I think the slightly warmer / softer delivery of these new 12 gauge cables is slightly preferable. I'm more a listener than an analyst of music so I guess these cables will suit me and the Duos well.

 

[Cellcbern]

From what Jeff Day seems to be saying, Duelund cables will sound different if returned to one's system after a period out of it. This sounds absurd unless he also suggests that they will sound different on the day you get back from holiday compared with the day you left home! Any logic or physics in this extraordinary assertion I wonder?

Bill - Do you hear different sound one day to the next, or after a period of non-use? It's only simple wire after all! After 4 years of using Duelund, do you consider it "as good as any speaker cable" or "other cables costing x-times as much are better sounding"? Did they take long to bed in before delivering their best sound? Thanks

Peter

What I understood Jeff Day to say is that when Duelund cables are disturbed, e.g, removed and reattached as in a comparison test with other cables, it can affect their sound and require them to settle again. This is not a new concept and I have experienced it with a number of different cable brands and models over the years. An explanation of the "logic and physics" is provided at the Cardas Website:

Insights - Cable Break-in

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Thanks Bill - that's most useful. I've had my 12 gauge Duelunds for a week now and find them very acceptable with my Avantgarde Duo XD horns. I had earlier been using the slightly aggressive Cabledyne Reference Silver cables, but their matching jumpers (bought for my earlier Duos) were not quite long enough, so I've been using 16 gauge Duelund jumpers between the main terminals (bass and top) and the mid-horn ones. I think the slightly warmer / softer delivery of these new 12 gauge cables is slightly preferable. I'm more a listener than an analyst of music so I guess these cables will suit me and the Duos well.

Hi Peter,

I am not surprised you are getting on well with the 12GA as a good match to the duo. I would have said that made a lot of sense. 12GA is even more full than 16GA so that is a good choice imho. If you like the sound of these, it is worth also hunting down some nos WE or Siemens cloth cables - they can go even further than the Duelands in absolute terms ime.

Have you made up a pair of interconnects with the 16GA? If not, I would recommend doing so for cheap investment. Use it from the dac to start.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Enamelled copper wire is cheap, good general purpose wiring. thin 0.1 mm internal wiring of the tonearm. 0.5 - 0.6 mm twisted for RCA (cinch) 1m =65-75pf with plug. Take 1.2mm for speakers twice or more for big power. I don't think it has any abnormalities in tonality. a cotton tube over it then looks something like this for exsample

KUPFERLACKDRAHT

 

[Walter66]

I would echo the comment about Auditorium A23. Great speaker cables for small price. I use it with tube amps and very sensitive speakers (Avantgarde) for many years by now.
Nothing comes close. Many friends followed my choice over the years and dropped expensive cables.
I am not a dealer or industry representative and have no connection to Auditorium.

Don't think that nearly 2K€/6m stereo is that kind of a small price. But they sound great, no discussion about that.

 

[acg]

My speakers are active 109dB/w/m and are currently 5-way horns but moving to six ways to better integrate bass into the room. All speaker wires are Duelund 16GA one end soldered directly to the output transformer of the amplifier driving them and crushed into the binding posts of each transducer.

Amplifiers are 6-way SET monoblocs and preamp is a hybrid DHT/SS design. Interconnects between preamp and amplifiers are Sablon EVO RCA, which are the best sounding in that position even though I directly compared quite a few interconnects in this position at several multiples of the price of the the Sablon, along with some less expensive ones also. I love what this cable does in that position in my system.

Long interconnects from sources to preamp are all Phasure Blaxius^2.5 (75 ohm BNC terminated) and are about 7m in length. This is a heavily shielded coaxial design that I feel absolutely no compulsion to change...I think they are entirely transparent...but are quite inflexible and need a bit of room to turn. Plus they are very reasonably priced.

Vertere HB ethernet cables, Argento AES (what a cable!) and stock power cords everywhere.

 

[Zeotrope]

My speakers are active 109dB/w/m and are currently 5-way horns but moving to six ways to better integrate bass into the room. All speaker wires are Duelund 16GA one end soldered directly to the output transformer of the amplifier driving them and crushed into the binding posts of each transducer.

Amplifiers are 6-way SET monoblocs and preamp is a hybrid DHT/SS design. Interconnects between preamp and amplifiers are Sablon EVO RCA, which are the best sounding in that position even though I directly compared quite a few interconnects in this position at several multiples of the price of the the Sablon, along with some less expensive ones also. I love what this cable does in that position in my system.

Long interconnects from sources to preamp are all Phasure Blaxius^2.5 (75 ohm BNC terminated) and are about 7m in length. This is a heavily shielded coaxial design that I feel absolutely no compulsion to change...I think they are entirely transparent...but are quite inflexible and need a bit of room to turn. Plus they are very reasonably priced.

Vertere HB ethernet cables, Argento AES (what a cable!) and stock power cords everywhere.

Very impressive system! Post some photos.
I must admit that you lost me at the end: "stock power cords everywhere". AC power makes a Significant difference, especially in a system like yours. Try out a Shunyata Denali or Everest and some of their power cords and prepare to be impressed.

 

[Zeotrope]

If you are testing/comparing the Duelund tinned copper wire be aware of the following:

From Jeff Day:

".....For some reason, tinned-copper cables are discombobulated by taking them in and out of a system more than other conductors within the realm of my experience, and then they also take quite a while to settle back down again, making their sound for comparison purposes a frustrating moving target. This can make you second guess the results you're getting with them, and you'll end up chasing your tail in a rather unproductive circle until you figure out what's going on, and then you'll feel silly for having done it. Don't ask me how I know....".

I just replaced the connections from crossover to drivers from Duelund 16GA to 12GA. Sounds brutal! Terrible. I hope it's the break-in time. Will give it 100 hours and then decide.

 

[Zeotrope]

It has a heavy coloration ie identifiable character ie not natural sound. Specifically it homogenized the signal and made the speakers sound bland and soulless. Are your new speakers wired with the Duelund?

david

This sounds like you didn't wait until they were broken in. Unfortunately, it can take 200 hours.

 

[Atmasphere]

My Classic Audio Loudspeakers are not only high efficiency but also 16 Ohms and so are not critical of speaker cables. I've tried a bunch of cables but really not heard significant differences whether using tube amps with a high output impedance or a class D with nearly 0 Ohms output impedance. When I had lower impedance speakers they made a greater difference.

 

[Hear Here]

My Classic Audio Loudspeakers are not only high efficiency but also 16 Ohms and so are not critical of speaker cables. I've tried a bunch of cables but really not heard significant differences whether using tube amps with a high output impedance or a class D with nearly 0 Ohms output impedance. When I had lower impedance speakers they made a greater difference.

My horn speakers are 18 ohms but I've never really considered the point you mention - being less fussy of cable choice. I recently moved from costly solid silver cables to Duelund 12 gauge. Certainly no loss in sound quality, much thinner and black covering, so a less conspicuous installation. No complaints and (judging by others' comments) may now sound better than when first installed. I haven't noticed any "burn-in" improvement though! Peter

 

[acg]

Very impressive system! Post some photos.
I must admit that you lost me at the end: "stock power cords everywhere". AC power makes a Significant difference, especially in a system like yours. Try out a Shunyata Denali or Everest and some of their power cords and prepare to be impressed.

My amplifiers, preamp and phonostage were all built with captive power leads so I have complete control over shielding and do away with an IEC connection. I also make my own powerboards with high quality industrial sockets and reasonable wiring practices (no daisy chaining sockets).. The only audio components that have an IEC socket are the Antipodes Oladra server and the Kassandra dac, and recently I trialled a high priced power cord for both of those and the sound was worse, for both. And not even close...smoothed over and soft rather than dynamic and highly detailed.

Talking to the dealer afterwards I should not have plugged the fancy power cords into the (DIY) powerstrip rather straight into the wall...I'm an amateur audiophile apparently!

The power cord was trialled just to see what happened. It was an incidental demo and not something that I had planned. Usually, for me to make a change in the system, I need to first understand what it is about my sound that I want to change and think about contenders and methods for providing that change. Trouble here is, that currently I do not want to change anything about my sound, so the power cord was always going to fail regardless of how good it is, unless it actually did the same things that the $2 power cord is doing.

 

[ddk]

This sounds like you didn't wait until they were broken in. Unfortunately, it can take 200 hours.

No, just didn’t like the Dueland cables. Their nature didn’t change after break-in and remained bland and boring.

david