Where did you get 15%? Cables are the biggest ripoff in audio. Most are at least a 50 point line.you can buy used, buy recording studio cable at a fraction of the price, or buy closeout cables like I did at 20 cents on the dollar. I got excellent Madrigal cables that way
What cables are you using in your system ?????
- Thread starter MrAcoustat
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Can you please share your specific data that shows what their NET profit is (not gross profit) on a yearly operating basis for cable companies that you used to come to this conclusion?
I'm sure it is much more detailed than the normal keyboard-commando who only looks at cost of materials.
Thank you.
Robert Harley said in his book that cables are not related to the cost of manufacturing, but rather, what the market will bear. I bought Madrigal HPC cables for 20% of list from a dealer going out of business. Top quality studio cable with Mogami cable with switchcraft connectors are a fraction of the price of so called high end cables. You can also buy used.
I would never pay retail or anywhere near it for most of these insanely priced cables like transparent or MIT with act like tone controls with those useless network boxes.
They are. But, according to John Atkinson, that’s not what you want
A lot IC's & speaker cables act as tone controls more so than most will admit. If that's what a individual wants then so be it, they're paying for it.
Some individuals have tone controls on their preamps/integrated amps/receivers as well and some use them also, it's simply what they like.
I've got bass & treble controls on my receiver & integrated amp but don't use them. I only use the loudness switch and mono switch because it's part of my analog setup. My digital system does not have tone controls, mono switch, loudness switch, or even a balance knob.
Everyone will have to find the sound that's right for them through careful audition of components unless you like to buy & sell hifi equipment on a regular basis as a hobby.
Just my opinions.
Some individuals have tone controls on their preamps/integrated amps/receivers as well and some use them also, it's simply what they like.
I've got bass & treble controls on my receiver & integrated amp but don't use them. I only use the loudness switch and mono switch because it's part of my analog setup. My digital system does not have tone controls, mono switch, loudness switch, or even a balance knob.
Everyone will have to find the sound that's right for them through careful audition of components unless you like to buy & sell hifi equipment on a regular basis as a hobby.
Just my opinions.
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It is also not what I want, but some of the network filters also address the impedance in the RF range, so they could be useful even if they are not doing a tone control.
A lot of people make a significant fuss about cable, but I usually try and just focus on the major stuff.
I am very disturbed by the absurd pricing on many cables. This is wire with connectors. I am using Monster 2.4s bi-wire speaker cables I bought in 1999. They work great. The msrp was $600 and I paid $450 for them in a beautiful hard shell case. Very reasonable.
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Unfortunately, cables do have an impact on the sound, especially power cables. I think they set a "threshold" for the overall sound, in particular the basic properties like silence and resolution. Other cables in the system can be limiting, if not constructed properly. Cables and anti-vibration measures make the system "sing" in my opinion.
Im not on the market for extreme cables, and my choice is mayby unusual. Most of my cables are from Bibacord, a small company with a very down-to-earth philosophy on cables. The cables are performing very well, but are a bit toned-down visually. They remind me of form-to-function, as opposed to the juvellery we can get from others.
The main reason why I bought Bibacord is their detailed and still timbre-full sound. I like that a lot. I heard it at a show and started to buy after that experience. I dont know of any special feature with these cables, like exotic metals etc. The metal is copper and silver, single crystal and cryo treated with cotton as isolation. Bibacord does not use metal shieldning except for the DAC power cable. The shilding is instead by some kind of carbon material and can be attached to a grounding system.
The full sound combined with good dynamics is what attracted me to Bibacord. And I like the utilitarianistic approach.
Im not on the market for extreme cables, and my choice is mayby unusual. Most of my cables are from Bibacord, a small company with a very down-to-earth philosophy on cables. The cables are performing very well, but are a bit toned-down visually. They remind me of form-to-function, as opposed to the juvellery we can get from others.
The main reason why I bought Bibacord is their detailed and still timbre-full sound. I like that a lot. I heard it at a show and started to buy after that experience. I dont know of any special feature with these cables, like exotic metals etc. The metal is copper and silver, single crystal and cryo treated with cotton as isolation. Bibacord does not use metal shieldning except for the DAC power cable. The shilding is instead by some kind of carbon material and can be attached to a grounding system.
The full sound combined with good dynamics is what attracted me to Bibacord. And I like the utilitarianistic approach.
As you can see by my thumbnail photo I have served aboard a starship as Chief Engineer. I traveled several light years to various planets seeing and hearing amazing audio systems that were quite literally, out of this world.
Now some of you may choose not to believe me- and I am ok with that, just as I choose not to believe a word that Tascam says. That is only because opinions have little basis in fact. Experience and knowledge are to be treasured. A lot of us on this forum have experience that contradicts many of his opinions.
Markets determine pricing, not cost. If the market will not bear the cost to produce a product, it goes away. Some artist’s painting just sold for $400 million, I read. Technically, it’s maybe a few hundred dollars for the paint and canvas and so many hours of painting time. It’s worth $400M because someone was willing to pay that.
The value of a cable or any component in my system is up to me to decide. If the performance warrants the price and if I have the means, then I will buy it. Used is often a thrifty way to go, when possible for sure.
Btw- just kidding about serving on a starship. (I was likely coerced to state that.)
Now some of you may choose not to believe me- and I am ok with that, just as I choose not to believe a word that Tascam says. That is only because opinions have little basis in fact. Experience and knowledge are to be treasured. A lot of us on this forum have experience that contradicts many of his opinions.
Markets determine pricing, not cost. If the market will not bear the cost to produce a product, it goes away. Some artist’s painting just sold for $400 million, I read. Technically, it’s maybe a few hundred dollars for the paint and canvas and so many hours of painting time. It’s worth $400M because someone was willing to pay that.
The value of a cable or any component in my system is up to me to decide. If the performance warrants the price and if I have the means, then I will buy it. Used is often a thrifty way to go, when possible for sure.
Btw- just kidding about serving on a starship. (I was likely coerced to state that.)
Gentlemen, it is a well known fact that cables are usually marked up....."very well". This is not news.
If you have an issue paying the price for admission, please create another thread. For those that would appreciate reading about what others are using (price aside)?
Let them speak without the unnecessary noise. Price doesn't neccesarily equate to quality or even the end result of sound, and in many cases, it is system dependant but let's get back to the thread topic and keep price out of it.
The thread is not about price, or the justification thereof. It's about what cables you are using. Let's stay on point moving forward. Thank you.
Tom
If you have an issue paying the price for admission, please create another thread. For those that would appreciate reading about what others are using (price aside)?
Let them speak without the unnecessary noise. Price doesn't neccesarily equate to quality or even the end result of sound, and in many cases, it is system dependant but let's get back to the thread topic and keep price out of it.
The thread is not about price, or the justification thereof. It's about what cables you are using. Let's stay on point moving forward. Thank you.
Tom
^ok^
Usually I “roll my own” ICs, and then I have something to use.
I guess if I think that they are not up to snuff, then I can ‘lash out’ and try something else.
Maybe I have just been lucky with power cables, and speaker cables?
When it comes to cables (IC's or PC's)? I look at it like this....
One or more may give you a great and wide sound stage. Cool.
Others may give you that and height and depth. Cool.
Others may still give you a forward image (in the proper place, without being to forward) with crystal clear imaging. Cool.
Others may give you a palpable image of said lead singer (even if slightly off from center, depending on the recording) well enough that you can "see the image". Cool.
Others may give you enough to where (eyes open or closed), you can palpably "see" said image and the lips moving, as they sing. Cool.
Others may give you said center image of the lead singer and ALSO add in the same thing, only this time, with the background singers. Complete palpability, to where you can "see" the lips moving on the background singers as well. Extremely cool.
Now, add all of this together and more (a lot more) and you have a "sound stage" and a musicality that is to die for. The music just sucks you in and envelopes you. Nothing is exaggerated, nothing is enhanced. It's just bliss, listening for hours on end, with zero listening fatigue. Sucked into the music instead of simply listening.
And it is SO not limited to the focused scope described above...
What means you have to get there? Rock on with yo' bad self. I am happy for you. Strive for what you can afford/achieve/listen too. There is no right or wrong in this hobby. But please, do not knock those that push the boundaries of this hobby. That last 5 or 2%?........
Some folks are willing to go there. No matter the cost.
Tom
One or more may give you a great and wide sound stage. Cool.
Others may give you that and height and depth. Cool.
Others may still give you a forward image (in the proper place, without being to forward) with crystal clear imaging. Cool.
Others may give you a palpable image of said lead singer (even if slightly off from center, depending on the recording) well enough that you can "see the image". Cool.
Others may give you enough to where (eyes open or closed), you can palpably "see" said image and the lips moving, as they sing. Cool.
Others may give you said center image of the lead singer and ALSO add in the same thing, only this time, with the background singers. Complete palpability, to where you can "see" the lips moving on the background singers as well. Extremely cool.
Now, add all of this together and more (a lot more) and you have a "sound stage" and a musicality that is to die for. The music just sucks you in and envelopes you. Nothing is exaggerated, nothing is enhanced. It's just bliss, listening for hours on end, with zero listening fatigue. Sucked into the music instead of simply listening.
And it is SO not limited to the focused scope described above...
What means you have to get there? Rock on with yo' bad self. I am happy for you. Strive for what you can afford/achieve/listen too. There is no right or wrong in this hobby. But please, do not knock those that push the boundaries of this hobby. That last 5 or 2%?........
Some folks are willing to go there. No matter the cost.
Tom
True, but some things are just ridiculous like insanely expensive cables. You can get the same sound for a reasonable cost if you shop wisely and stay away from the cable bandits.
@Tascam....I understand you are upset about cost. We all get that.
This thread is NOT about cost. It is about, and I quote, "What cables are you using in your system ????"
Please stick to the topic at hand. Please consider this a formal warning. One more post about cost and you may be enjoying an involuntary vacation. The off topic posts are against the TOS of this forum. Please stop.
Tom
This thread is NOT about cost. It is about, and I quote, "What cables are you using in your system ????"
Please stick to the topic at hand. Please consider this a formal warning. One more post about cost and you may be enjoying an involuntary vacation. The off topic posts are against the TOS of this forum. Please stop.
Tom
For my main system as opposed to my subwoofer system I use either balanced AQ WEL Signature IC's or Dragon IC's. The 1 meter Dragon balanced IC between my MCD12000 An and C-12000 An retails for 11,900 but since it was a part of a very large purchase, I don't know what I actually paid for it. I only specified .5 meter but my dealer gave me an extra .5 meter at no extra cost. I have a 25' balanced WEL from my C-12000 to my 3500's. That cost some bucks. I use nothing but Dragon power cords in the main system. My entire system runs through my MCD12000 whose output (either SS or tube) goes to the Balanced 1 input of my C-12000 and from it, too either my 3500's or 1.25KW's. It's very efficient and elegant. I agree that this is total excess but then again I will never ever remotely consider upgrades, etc. I have zero hum and the clarity of the silver cable is wonderful.
Years ago I had ordered a Kimber Cable Copper Select 21' balanced IC in order to make the same connection that my WEL Signature makes in my current system, but of course my gear then wasn't remotely close to what it is now. While waiting for its arrival I was loaned a Cardas balanced IC of the same length. When my KK cable arrived I was surprised how different the two cables sounded. I wasn't expecting this. It caught me by surprise. I liked the Cardas IC significantly better than my new KK. I mentioned this to my dealer and he said the Cardas cable was a better cable. It was easy to hear. I never forgot this. I like silver cables and power cords, but it's all a matter of personal taste and experience. I use nothing but AQ in my system.
Years ago I had ordered a Kimber Cable Copper Select 21' balanced IC in order to make the same connection that my WEL Signature makes in my current system, but of course my gear then wasn't remotely close to what it is now. While waiting for its arrival I was loaned a Cardas balanced IC of the same length. When my KK cable arrived I was surprised how different the two cables sounded. I wasn't expecting this. It caught me by surprise. I liked the Cardas IC significantly better than my new KK. I mentioned this to my dealer and he said the Cardas cable was a better cable. It was easy to hear. I never forgot this. I like silver cables and power cords, but it's all a matter of personal taste and experience. I use nothing but AQ in my system.
Not quite what I mean. There are good reasons to spend some serious money on cables, especially on power cords. They set "the bar" for the system as the sound from the loudspeakers is more or less just modulated upon the electricity from the power grid.
Why electrical cord make such a big difference is not well understood (as far as I know). My guess is that a number of factors contribute, and that some cords have been able to fight those negatives. Filtering is also appropriate, but introduces other issues.
I have avoided inline filtering and have tried to find well designed power cords, sometimes at rather high costs, if they give results. Separating digital and analog power cables and distributers is just as important as using good cables.
What I avoid and dislike is embellished juvellery in hifi cableing. Its OK to sell an expensive cable if it really represents something new and important. A break-through in sound delivery. Not just a show-off that is meant to flatter the customer as a rich guy. Some of the really expensive stuff is also quite good. But the package from some firms... I cant stand it. This also goes for other hifi equipment. The absolute worse I have seen was a Dutch loudspeaker manufacturer with dimonds set in the speakers. They also happens to make really good speakers, but I couldnt buy any of them, even without dimonds. The same with the limited edition bullshit. Im not looking for a lasting investment in hifi -- it doesnt exist -- and I dont want to worship my hifi.... I have other Gods.
Sorry for this. I think there are important lessons and discoveries in this area, and it is the hifi entusiasts task to find them.
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