What cables are you using in your system ?????

[treitz3]

When it comes to cables (IC's or PC's)? I look at it like this....

One or more may give you a great and wide sound stage. Cool.

Others may give you that and height and depth. Cool.

Others may still give you a forward image (in the proper place, without being to forward) with crystal clear imaging. Cool.

Others may give you a palpable image of said lead singer (even if slightly off from center, depending on the recording) well enough that you can "see the image". Cool.

Others may give you enough to where (eyes open or closed), you can palpably "see" said image and the lips moving, as they sing. Cool.

Others may give you said center image of the lead singer and ALSO add in the same thing, only this time, with the background singers. Complete palpability, to where you can "see" the lips moving on the background singers as well. Extremely cool.

Now, add all of this together and more (a lot more) and you have a "sound stage" and a musicality that is to die for. The music just sucks you in and envelopes you. Nothing is exaggerated, nothing is enhanced. It's just bliss, listening for hours on end, with zero listening fatigue. Sucked into the music instead of simply listening.



And it is SO not limited to the focused scope described above...



What means you have to get there? Rock on with yo' bad self. I am happy for you. Strive for what you can afford/achieve/listen too. There is no right or wrong in this hobby. But please, do not knock those that push the boundaries of this hobby. That last 5 or 2%?........

Some folks are willing to go there. No matter the cost.

Tom

 

[Tascam]

When it comes to cables (IC's or PC's)? I look at it like this....

One or more may give you a great and wide sound stage. Cool.

Others may give you that and height and depth. Cool.

Others may still give you a forward image (in the proper place, without being to forward) with crystal clear imaging. Cool.

Others may give you a palpable image of said lead singer (even if slightly off from center, depending on the recording) well enough that you can "see the image"

Others may give you enough to where (eyes open or closed), you can palpably "see" said image and the lips moving, as they sing.

Others may give you said center image of the lead singer and ALSO add in the same thing, only this time, with the background singers. Complete palpability, to where you can "see" the lips moving on the background singers.

Now, add all of this together and more (a lot more) and you have a "sound stage" and a musicality that is to die for. The music just sucks you in and envelopes you. Nothing is exaggerated, nothing is enhanced. It's just bliss, listening for hours on end, with zero listening fatigue.



And it is SO not limited to the focused scope described above...



What means you have to get there? Rock on with yo' bad self. I am happy for you. Strive for what you can afford/achieve/listen too. There is no right or wrong in this hobby. But please, do not knock those that push the boundaries of this hobby. That last 5 or 2%?........

Some folks are willing to go there. No matter the cost.

Tokm

True, but some things are just ridiculous like insanely expensive cables. You can get the same sound for a reasonable cost if you shop wisely and stay away from the cable bandits.

 

[treitz3]

@Tascam....I understand you are upset about cost. We all get that.

This thread is NOT about cost. It is about, and I quote, "What cables are you using in your system ????"

Please stick to the topic at hand. Please consider this a formal warning. One more post about cost and you may be enjoying an involuntary vacation. The off topic posts are against the TOS of this forum. Please stop.

Tom

 

[Tascam]

@Tascam....I understand you are upset about cost. We all get that.

This thread is NOT about cost. It is about, and I quote, "What cables are you using in your system ????"

Please stick to the topic at hand. Please consider this a formal warning. One more post about cost and you may be enjoying an involuntary vacation. The off topic posts are against the TOS of this forum. Please stop.

Tom

I am using Madrigal HPC interconnects, Monster 2.4s bi-wire speaker cables and a Transparent phono cable

 

[Charles S]

For my main system as opposed to my subwoofer system I use either balanced AQ WEL Signature IC's or Dragon IC's. The 1 meter Dragon balanced IC between my MCD12000 An and C-12000 An retails for 11,900 but since it was a part of a very large purchase, I don't know what I actually paid for it. I only specified .5 meter but my dealer gave me an extra .5 meter at no extra cost. I have a 25' balanced WEL from my C-12000 to my 3500's. That cost some bucks. I use nothing but Dragon power cords in the main system. My entire system runs through my MCD12000 whose output (either SS or tube) goes to the Balanced 1 input of my C-12000 and from it, too either my 3500's or 1.25KW's. It's very efficient and elegant. I agree that this is total excess but then again I will never ever remotely consider upgrades, etc. I have zero hum and the clarity of the silver cable is wonderful.

Years ago I had ordered a Kimber Cable Copper Select 21' balanced IC in order to make the same connection that my WEL Signature makes in my current system, but of course my gear then wasn't remotely close to what it is now. While waiting for its arrival I was loaned a Cardas balanced IC of the same length. When my KK cable arrived I was surprised how different the two cables sounded. I wasn't expecting this. It caught me by surprise. I liked the Cardas IC significantly better than my new KK. I mentioned this to my dealer and he said the Cardas cable was a better cable. It was easy to hear. I never forgot this. I like silver cables and power cords, but it's all a matter of personal taste and experience. I use nothing but AQ in my system.

 

[treitz3]

AQ held my system back in spades. TBT.

Tom

 

[Gotland]

Why spend huge money on a power cord when the wiring in your walls is so basic.

Not quite what I mean. There are good reasons to spend some serious money on cables, especially on power cords. They set "the bar" for the system as the sound from the loudspeakers is more or less just modulated upon the electricity from the power grid.
Why electrical cord make such a big difference is not well understood (as far as I know). My guess is that a number of factors contribute, and that some cords have been able to fight those negatives. Filtering is also appropriate, but introduces other issues.
I have avoided inline filtering and have tried to find well designed power cords, sometimes at rather high costs, if they give results. Separating digital and analog power cables and distributers is just as important as using good cables.
What I avoid and dislike is embellished juvellery in hifi cableing. Its OK to sell an expensive cable if it really represents something new and important. A break-through in sound delivery. Not just a show-off that is meant to flatter the customer as a rich guy. Some of the really expensive stuff is also quite good. But the package from some firms... I cant stand it. This also goes for other hifi equipment. The absolute worse I have seen was a Dutch loudspeaker manufacturer with dimonds set in the speakers. They also happens to make really good speakers, but I couldnt buy any of them, even without dimonds. The same with the limited edition bullshit. Im not looking for a lasting investment in hifi -- it doesnt exist -- and I dont want to worship my hifi.... I have other Gods.
Sorry for this. I think there are important lessons and discoveries in this area, and it is the hifi entusiasts task to find them.

 

[TonyW]

When it comes to cables (IC's or PC's)? I look at it like this....

One or more may give you a great and wide sound stage. Cool.

Others may give you that and height and depth. Cool.

Others may still give you a forward image (in the proper place, without being to forward) with crystal clear imaging. Cool.

Others may give you a palpable image of said lead singer (even if slightly off from center, depending on the recording) well enough that you can "see the image". Cool.

Others may give you enough to where (eyes open or closed), you can palpably "see" said image and the lips moving, as they sing. Cool.

Others may give you said center image of the lead singer and ALSO add in the same thing, only this time, with the background singers. Complete palpability, to where you can "see" the lips moving on the background singers. Extremely cool.

Now, add all of this together and more (a lot more) and you have a "sound stage" and a musicality that is to die for. The music just sucks you in and envelopes you. Nothing is exaggerated, nothing is enhanced. It's just bliss, listening for hours on end, with zero listening fatigue. Sucked into the music.



And it is SO not limited to the focused scope described above...



What means you have to get there? Rock on with yo' bad self. I am happy for you. Strive for what you can afford/achieve/listen too. There is no right or wrong in this hobby. But please, do not knock those that push the boundaries of this hobby. That last 5 or 2%?........

Some folks are willing to go there. No matter the cost.

Tokm

What Tom wrote puts into words exactly my experience.

I am using Purist Audio Design cables throughout my system. The exception is AQ Ethernet cables from the router to my Music Server. But from the 30th Anniversary USB cable between the Music Server/Player and my DAC to all of the IC's, PC's and Speaker wires they are all upper level PAD cables. I even put a Purist Audio Design phono cable on my tonearm. I don't have experience with a lot of brands of cables. I auditioned some of the PAD cables in my home and decided to throw my hat in the ring with them based upon what I was hearing in my system. Very satisfying for me. Make that intensely satisfying for me.

In 2020 I auditioned the midline of PAD cables and found they sounded better than the more expensive cables that I had been using at the time for 12 years. So I switched everything to the midline of PAD. Once I got my new speakers in 2022 I felt I needed more in terms of cabling. So I auditioned some upper level PAD speaker wires and power cords (Corvus) for my amps in my home. It was quite an improvement in the sound and I had to have them. That lead to upgrading the PC's on my DAC and preamps and finally upgrading the IC's.

The thing I find is that mid grade hifi power cords have some affect on the sound but higher grade power cords is where things get interesting. I remember back around 2004 trying a $200 PC on my amp and didn't really hear a difference so I returned it. Didn't think much about Power Cords until 2020 when I tried some of PAD's middle line PC's. They made a noticeable improvement but nothing like their upper level line of Power Cords. The change for me was astonishing. First, I noticed the background got much blacker. My system was already dead quiet. When I changed the power cords on my amps the noise floor dropped dramatically. When I added their higher end Power Cords to my DAC and Preamps the background got even darker. It's like their Power Cords are Power Conditioners. btw- I use a very good Power Conditioner on my front end. I didn't expect to hear a difference in Power Cords on my DAC and Preamps. The reality is high end Power Cords make a profound difference.

I snagged me a used pair of PAD Dominus XLR IC's in just the right length to go between my Preamp and Amps. First time I heard them in my system was an Oh Wow! moment. A big Oh Wow! moment. If I could, I would have the Dominus line throughout. The biggest change I recall was the clarity of the bass, the smooth, beautiful highs and even more life like imaging.

My system today- like what Tom wrote has a presence that I have rarely experienced. Bass notes have a clarity, timber and texture that feels like the instruments are in the room. Vocals and highs have a rich, creamy sound with that openness but without sibilance or fatigue. The soundstage is bigger than the room with some recordings. Some chorale pieces go from floor to ceiling. And I can hear each individual voice vs a cloud of sound like I heard in the past. The coolest thing is on most recordings, voices are six feet in the air while instruments are 3-4 feet in the air. How does it do that? One of my favorite live recordings now is Carly Simon Live at Grand Central. I have to listen in the dark or close my eyes to free myself of the walls. I am transported to the scene. I feel like I am standing in Grand Central. The stage is very large- much larger than my room. The songs, the bass drums hit me and go right through the floor. I can hear them reverberate off the walls of Grand Central. This is what a black background does for the system. The smallest details emerge to paint a lifelike image and stage.

 

[ssfas]

AQ held my system back in spades. TBT.

Tom

First things first, got the power network to install a new cable from under the street. It is their specification for 3-phase power (3 x 100A 400V supply). The same grade cable feeds the 3 consumer units.

Consumer unit to hifi socket: Neotech NEP-4003 UP-OFC Copper Silver plated Mains Cable. Rated at 27A, very flexible.

Wall to conditioner: Puritan Ultimate.
Conditioner to components: Puritan Ultimate (to amplifier and a couple of other things), otherwise Supra Lo-Rad 2.5mm cut down as appropriate from a kit. Good solid industrial quality wire from a Belden size company.
https://www.mcru.co.uk/product/mcru-supra-lo-rad-diy-mains-lead-set/?v=79cba1185463

Ethernet: Belden CAT 6a ethernet and no-name fibre optic.

Digital path is NEUB-1020-1.5 Neotech USB 2.0 cable, UP-OCC Silver, 1.5 metre and NEMOI-1220: Neotech Rectangular OCC Silver Interconnect Cable with Neotech UP-OCC Copper/gold XLR plugs.

Analogue path (two arms and phonos) cables were made by Sean Jacobs (Custom HiFi Cables, his are copper) and Mark Sears (Vinyl Passion, silver) and a mid-price Zavfino DIN cable.

I use speaker cables from Oephi. Extremely low inductance, as required by my speakers. Before that I used Townshend Isolda, also extremely low inductance. The only reason for the change was moving the system and the Isolda being too short. The Oephi were part of an exchange deal, in retrospect I should have just got a longer pair of Isolda.

I did use the Belden 5T00UP 10AWG speaker wire for several months and for $140 it was quite extraordinarily good. I had to get the Oephi reterminated and they made a whole performance about it and it took 3 months. The Belden cables came from 6,000 miles away and took 3 days. That's high-end hifi people for you.

I like the way of buying Neotech cables from HiFi Collective. You buy the required length of cable and connectors and labour at £30 per half hour. It takes them 60 minutes to make a pair of RCA or XLR cables, so 2 labour units, cost £60. Delivered in 4 days.

 

[ssfas]

What Tom wrote puts into words exactly my experience.

I am using Purist Audio Design cables throughout my system. The exception is AQ Ethernet cables from the router to my Music Server. But from the 30th Anniversary USB cable between the Music Server/Player and my DAC to all of the IC's, PC's and Speaker wires they are all upper level PAD cables. I even put a Purist Audio Design phono cable on my tonearm. I don't have experience with a lot of brands of cables. I auditioned some of the PAD cables in my home and decided to throw my hat in the ring with them based upon what I was hearing in my system. Very satisfying for me. Make that intensely satisfying for me.

In 2020 I auditioned the midline of PAD cables and found they sounded better than the more expensive cables that I had been using at the time for 12 years. So I switched everything to the midline of PAD. Once I got my new speakers in 2022 I felt I needed more in terms of cabling. So I auditioned some upper level PAD speaker wires and power cords (Corvus) for my amps in my home. It was quite an improvement in the sound and I had to have them. That lead to upgrading the PC's on my DAC and preamps and finally upgrading the IC's.

The thing I find is that mid grade hifi power cords have some affect on the sound but higher grade power cords is where things get interesting. I remember back around 2004 trying a $200 PC on my amp and didn't really hear a difference so I returned it. Didn't think much about Power Cords until 2020 when I tried some of PAD's middle line PC's. They made a noticeable improvement but nothing like their upper level line of Power Cords. The change for me was astonishing. First, I noticed the background got much blacker. My system was already dead quiet. When I changed the power cords on my amps the noise floor dropped dramatically. When I added their higher end Power Cords to my DAC and Preamps the background got even darker. It's like their Power Cords are Power Conditioners. btw- I use a very good Power Conditioner on my front end. I didn't expect to hear a difference in Power Cords on my DAC and Preamps. The reality is high end Power Cords make a profound difference.

I snagged me a used pair of PAD Dominus XLR IC's in just the right length to go between my Preamp and Amps. First time I heard them in my system was an Oh Wow! moment. A big Oh Wow! moment. If I could, I would have the Dominus line throughout. The biggest change I recall was the clarity of the bass, the smooth, beautiful highs and even more life like imaging.

My system today- like what Tom wrote has a presence that I have rarely experienced. Bass notes have a clarity, timber and texture that feels like the instruments are in the room. Vocals and highs have a rich, creamy sound with that openness but without sibilance or fatigue. The soundstage is bigger than the room with some recordings. Some chorale pieces go from floor to ceiling. And I can hear each individual voice vs a cloud of sound like I heard in the past. The coolest thing is on most recordings, voices are six feet in the air while instruments are 3-4 feet in the air. How does it do that? One of my favorite live recordings now is Carly Simon Live at Grand Central. I have to listen in the dark or close my eyes to free myself of the walls. I am transported to the scene. I feel like I am standing in Grand Central. The stage is very large- much larger than my room. The songs, the bass drums hit me and go right through the floor. I can hear them reverberate off the walls of Grand Central. This is what a black background does for the system. The smallest details emerge to paint a lifelike image and stage.

I get how engineers can make a warm and enveloping vocal sound in a studio, Kandace Springs and Melody Gardot come to mind. Ironically in Gardot's last album the performers were never on the same continent, let alone the same room. I've heard some good contemporary singers live in concert halls, like Laura Mvula and Cecile McLorin Salvant. The recorded sound is probably more engaging sonically. CMS sounds better off a club recording than live at the Barbican Hall, London.

I listen to lots of live singing, mainly opera and baroque. Even a very good stereo system just doesn't do it for me, not even close, so I rarely listen to that type of music at home for the sonic experience, only to get familiar with and understand the music. I know a good opera singer when I hear one, and that's half the fun of going to the opera, but I don't need to sit home and analyse them on my stereo system. Other people do.

If a system has a fundamental issue with tonality, and voices will sound wrong, cables aren't going to fix it. More likely the speaker/room acoustic has gone wrong or it's just a bad room for audio. My general impression of cabling is that some cabling seems to minimise noise, so the sound is more clear, and the soundstaging can get better. Personally, I feel gains are to be had more in the recordings than the cables. This is probably my reference for what can be achieved.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

Analysis Plus Solo Crystal IC.
DH Labs Ethernet, usb and phono cables.
Speaker Cable Purist Audio Design Poseidon. REL T-Zero with Signal Cable Speakon.

 

[TonyW]

I get how engineers can make a warm and enveloping vocal sound in a studio, Kandace Springs and Melody Gardot come to mind. Ironically in Gardot's last album the performers were never on the same continent, let alone the same room. I've heard some good contemporary singers live in concert halls, like Laura Mvula and Cecile McLorin Salvant. The recorded sound is probably more engaging sonically. CMS sounds better off a club recording than live at the Barbican Hall, London.

I listen to lots of live singing, mainly opera and baroque. Even a very good stereo system just doesn't do it for me, not even close, so I rarely listen to that type of music at home for the sonic experience, only to get familiar with and understand the music. I know a good opera singer when I hear one, and that's half the fun of going to the opera, but I don't need to sit home and analyse them on my stereo system. Other people do.

If a system has a fundamental issue with tonality, and voices will sound wrong, cables aren't going to fix it. More likely the speaker/room acoustic has gone wrong or it's just a bad room for audio. My general impression of cabling is that some cabling seems to minimise noise, so the sound is more clear, and the soundstaging can get better. Personally, I feel gains are to be had more in the recordings than the cables. This is probably my reference for what can be achieved.

View attachment 138268

Listening to this album now. About 3/4 ways through. Very nice way to start the day.

 

[Redwoodaudio]

If a system has a fundamental issue with tonality, and voices will sound wrong, cables aren't going to fix it.

Some cables will cause this, though. Different USB cables, for instance, can change the quality of voices and energy dramatically.

 

[Charles S]

AQ held my system back in spades. TBT.

Tom

Tom, I used KK for several decades and MIT power conditioners (Z-Center, ISO DUO, Z-cords etc.). But when my gear began to get substantially more high end and with the arrival of my XVX, I knew that a major upgrade was in order. I went with AQ WEL Signature after a lot of research and then the Dragon Series replaced some of it but not all of it. I have WEL speaker cables. I think Wilson uses Transparent for their internal wiring. I can't comment on anything other than to say that I am extremely pleased with the quality of my sound, especially the clarity, without hardness. My tubes provide a measure of warmth but not as much as you would expect. My noise floor is exceedingly low and I have zero hum. I enjoyed my KK and MIT for many years. I use 2 Niagara 5000's and 1 Niagara 7000 power conditioners. When I bought them they were pricey but now I probably wouldn't. Just too expensive but they are beautiful and are built to last a lifetime. I will never make any more "connection" purchases.

Something rather humorous: Okay, my dealer calls me up essentially almost begging me to purchase this McIntosh An gear. I made my offer of 70K, which included trading in my 1.25KW's. Later on I had second thoughts and bought them back for 14K plus sales tax. So during all this they gave me an extra .5 meter on my Dragon balanced IC ( about an extra 5K retail). Then when this massive amount of new gear arrived, I got a 8.2K dollar 3-meter Firebird power cord as opposed to a 3-meter 3.5K Hurricane specified in the deal. I didn't ask any questions but it left me in the strange and somewhat humorous situation of having a Hurricane Source for my 2.1KW Output Module, a Hurricane HC for one Power Module and a Firebird HC for the other. I wasn't going to tell them to take the Firebird back. The HC Hurricane was part of my old 1.25KW powered subwoofer system. The Power Modules don't seem to care about this oddity, and if they don't neither do I.

 

[Audiofreak71]

Wireworld Eclipse 7 bi wired speaker cables
VH Audio spectrum interconnect’s
Revelation Audio solid core Cryo silver umbilical cables
PI Audio 20a 15a power cables
VH Audio and Analysis Plus phono cables
Audiomods Silver phono cable with KLE bullet RCA’s.

I didn’t used to think cables played a major part in a system , but when I got to a certain point in my system I had a friend let me use a well made power cable interconnects and speaker cables and the difference in sound was profound for the better.

The cables he let me use weren’t cheap but they weren’t big bucks either, what they were they used the highest purity copper and build quality. So from then on I’ve had good quality cables whether copper or silver and it shows in my system.

 

[Republicoftexas69]

I agree with all of this except power cords.. I would add that many many so called high end cables are a ridiculous ripoff and bear no resemblance to the actual cost of manufacturing. Many of the Transparent and MIT cables, Siltech, and many other, it shouldn’t cost 3-5k for a 1 meter piece of wire. Power cords are another scam. Why spend huge money on a power cord when the wiring in your walls is so basic. Many of the silver cables brighten the sound and make your system sound terrible. Good basic copper cable is all you need.

So they do make a difference "Many of the silver cables brighten the sound and make your system sound terrible" These are usually silver coated not pure silver core. You should do some reading on the subject.
Many of us have dedicated electrical service to our listening rooms' with upgraded powerline's and independent breaker box. "Why spend huge money on a power cord when the wiring in your walls is so basic"

 

[ssfas]

Some cables will cause this, though. Different USB cables, for instance, can change the quality of voices and energy dramatically.

As it happens, I used a Chord USB–C cable for for about 10 years. It was a free gift in a blister pack attached to an audio magazine so in reality it cost me £5. They are still popular, but the price has gone up to £50.

I recently succumbed to temptation and bought a neotech up-occ silver USB cable for the princely sum of £120.

 

[Charles S]

I'm a believer that good sound begins at the light pole. I have a 5500 square foot house. It is old but quite interesting in that it has a skating rink, full gym, and an acoustically wonderful dedicated room for my XVX that is a full 40 feet long so with the rear door open I have zero standing waves generated from the rear wall behind my sofa. An interesting feature is a 60K watt whole house GE generator with a Transguard Tg60 situated between the light pole and the enormous transfer switch, which will transfer power to the generator in the event of a power outage. The Tg60 has an excellent filter that lowers my noise floor significantly. It's easy to hear. Next I have 4 dedicated 20 amp lines of no.10 wire coming directly from my 440 amp fuse box to my music room and I use hospital grade outlets for my HC Dragon power cords, 4 of them, that power my 3 Niagara 5000's and 1 Niagara 7000. It's well recognized that the power cord that connects the wall to your system is where you must spend the money. Power cords that connect the conditioner to the component are less important. However, in my main system, I use nothing but Dragon power cords. If your power foundation is not solid, this could be the reason that you are not experiencing all that you system is capable of sonically. A power conditioner can only accomplish so much.

 

[Holmz]

AQ held my system back in spades. TBT.

Tom

They (AQ) can change out the spade ends for a fee.

 

[treitz3]

Thanks, but I have since moved on. I have found my favorite that (in my system) sounds better in so many aspects than any other cable manufacturer/supplier I have tried. I even have 4 cables on order that haven't even been introduced to the public yet. I was actually the first person in the world to try them out.

Tom