What do you think of this video

What do you think of this video. And this is not directed to those who think every mobile phone video is trash, thanks. Please listen to the end for the brass and the woodwinds

 

Yes, very different from Peter's playback. Of course the room is playing an important role in what I hear as differences but one thing that seems more system related is that on Peter's the sax is more prominent and the other instruments more in the background and on the actual LP the bass and drums are quite forward and prominent as well.

However, one has to consider that your "unadulterated" LP version is still having to be played by a turntable with arm, cart and phonostage being totally different from Peter's. This alone will account for significant differences.

I find this discussion quite interesting. We are comparing various versions of a well known recording through a variety of playback methods. The "unadulterated" LP is also a different recording than my later reissue, which I think is also remastered. I do prefer it to my later thick vinyl Analogue Productions reissue. The track content is also different on the two LPs. On both of mine, this track is the last one on side two. On the "unadulterated" LP, there continue to be music tracks after this particular song. These seem like different outtakes or something. At least I hear them on this video which is an hour and ten minutes long - a full 20-30 minutes longer than my LP. It seems the LPs that are being compared are different is some fundamental ways. EDIT: one video is of a stereo LP and the other is a mono LP. Yes, quite different sounding for many reasons.

When making comparisons, I generally ask myself which sample sounds more natural: that is, which sample sound more like the real thing. I find less valuable comparing one presentation to another, as we are doing here and assigning one as the reference or standard. It is simply a different presentation using different gear. They are both artificial, so where is the reference? I prefer to compare each presentation to my memory of what I think live instruments sound like, to then assess which presentation being compared more closely matches that.

My room has always suffered from the effects of the large protruding fireplace located right between the two speakers. That is a property of the room which will not be eliminated and one with which I must live. The room has an effect on the sound, and that is just the way it is. I agree with Brad's comment that the turntable, arm, cartridge, cable, and phonostage will all result in a different presentation from these two different versions of the same recording. Then, adding amplifiers, cables, speakers, and room effects to one and not the other, makes the comparison even less valuable, IMO. I do not listen to my LPs without the speakers and room being involved.

Much more upper midrange on the sax than the unadulterated vinyl rip above and the sax sounds less 3D. Sounds almost like a different size saxophone. Can you try a higher res recording than MP3?

This latest video does sound quite different from the other videos of this recording.

Yes, we do all have different listening skills and we listen for different things, and we value different aspects of music presentations. It is one of the reasons this hobby is so varied and rich with different approaches. If we all heard the same, and valued sounds in the same way, we might all be listening to very similar systems, be they digital/SS/cones or vinyl/tube/horns, or something in between. But no, we all have something different.

I find the different approaches fascinating, and I am not troubled by the observation that we have different listening skills and values. We all like what we like, we assemble our systems to our preferences and values, and we try to enjoy the hobby in our own way. We choose for ourselves what we think sounds best.

 

Much more upper midrange on the sax than the unadulterated vinyl rip above and the sax sounds less 3D. Sounds almost like a different size saxophone. Can you try a higher res recording than MP3?

Here's the wav file. If you're comparing this against the "unadulterated" remember that the owner claims that version to be the LP version. IOW, you might wanna' check if a digital "official" version exists just to ensure you're somewhat comparing apples to apples???

 

An exciting piece of you give it some juice.

 

Thomas Beecham, Scheherazade, Wilson XVX, dartzeel, Dohmann, Lyra atlas SL lambda

 

Sigma MAAT Vector, Kondo Ginga, Lyra Olympos, all Kondo system, Reiner Scheherazade

 

Reiner seem a tad rushed, Beecham is more lyrical.

 

Beecham is the second movement and Reiner the 4th. Beecham is very lyrical, but overall the Reiner on Scheherazade is quite unbeatable especially on the 4th movement. Listen to the Reiner 2nd movement on earlier videos on this thread including OP. On the 4th others are puny. Kondrashin with Concertgebouw is good and different and also has rollicking 4th. Stokowski is very different, though not as good for me. The Ansermet first three movements on decca are ok.

Reiner also has best brass section in all of them and every individual instrument is excellent. Kondrashin has Krebbers who went on to play an excellent Beethoven concerto with Haitink and also a very good Brahms on the inexpensive LP and digital side.

Reiner is brilliant on Pictures, Beethoven 5th, 7th, Eroica, Rossini overtures.

his recordings are not great though the the classic records of Scheherazade is quite good, but his originals are not as great a quality as some other originals. But I still like his performance crossed with recording quality better than others with better recording quality. He is actually very good on CD.

the Beecham recording quality also is meh I enjoy it on YouTube direct as an LP rip

 

Yes, Reiner's Chicago horn section was the best at that time -- great chops and timing as an ensemble.

 

Yes, Reiner's Chicago horn section was the best at that time -- great chops and timing as an ensemble.

imo his symphonies have among the best timing. Perfect tempi too.

his brass is Scheherazade.

 

Thomas Beecham, Scheherazade, Wilson XVX, dartzeel, Dohmann, Lyra atlas SL lambda

With at least 15 versions (out of 46,000 LPs/CDs/78s), Beecham, Leinsdorf (LA Phil), Stokowski (27' or last one) and Monteux are among my favorites. Reiner is hard driven for me without the elegance, could be like any orchestral work. Monteux apparently doubled the horns in the 4th movement ala Reiner. You chose the best!

 

Beecham is the second movement and Reiner the 4th. Beecham is very lyrical, but overall the Reiner on Scheherazade is quite unbeatable especially on the 4th movement. Listen to the Reiner 2nd movement on earlier videos on this thread including OP. On the 4th others are puny. Kondrashin with Concertgebouw is good and different and also has rollicking 4th. Stokowski is very different, though not as good for me. The Ansermet first three movements on decca are ok.

Reiner also has best brass section in all of them and every individual instrument is excellent. Kondrashin has Krebbers who went on to play an excellent Beethoven concerto with Haitink and also a very good Brahms on the inexpensive LP and digital side.

Reiner is brilliant on Pictures, Beethoven 5th, 7th, Eroica, Rossini overtures.

his recordings are not great though the the classic records of Scheherazade is quite good, but his originals are not as great a quality as some other originals. But I still like his performance crossed with recording quality better than others with better recording quality. He is actually very good on CD.

the Beecham recording quality also is meh I enjoy it on YouTube direct as an LP rip

The Beecham version sounds great on the English EMI CD. The US Angel CDs are not good (I dispensed with the GROC CD), much worst than the English EMI CD and original EMI LP.

Reiner's Pictures is excellent, I suspect that he just beat the time as Chicago already knew the piece superbly from the former conductor Kubelik.

 

With at least 15 versions (out of 46,000 LPs/CDs/78s), Beecham, Leinsdorf (LA Phil), Stokowski (27' or last one) and Monteux are among my favorites. Reiner is hard driven for me without the elegance. Monteux apparently doubled the horns in the 4th movement ala Reiner. You chose the best!

I haven't heard Monteux and Leinsdorf on this. Doubling of the horns is interesting, will liste. Reiner is fantastic, as is Kondrashin. Stokowski is different, I like him as a variation. Ansermet some things are good as is the Decca LP. Beecham is very melodic. Mark Dohman was playing the LPs and a classical hadn't been played, he had the Beecham and another ERC (4 last songs) so I requested him to play the Beecham. And 4th movement most pale off apart from Reiner, and Kondrashin.

 

The Beecham version sounds great on the English EMI CD. The US Angel CDs are not good (I dispensed with the GROC CD), much worst than the English EMI CD and original EMI LP.

Reiner's Pictures is excellent, I suspect that he just beat the time as Chicago already knew the piece superbly from the former conductor Kubelik.

I am evaluating more on LPs, and where possible originals.

Reiner performances are brilliant. Tyrant for sure, like Szell. Not sure why you are anti-Reiner.

 

I am evaluating more on LPs, and where possible originals.

Reiner performances are brilliant. Tyrant for sure, like Szell. Not sure why you are anti-Reiner.

I am NOT anti-Reiner. I have all his RCA stereo and some Pittsburgh performances, opera performances, etc.
This one recording just irks me when I can hear so many other's who provide a more sensuous observation of the music while still maintaining the excitement. Reiner's Hovhaness, Stravinsky, Strauss, William Tell Overture, etc. are just fantastic! His Verdi Requiem and Beethoven's 9th aren't my favorites either. Superior to Szell overall (I have less Szell than Reiner/Szell was also a jerk concerning sound the way he determined their EQ.).

I disposed of over 18,000 LPs and 78s in the past 25 years as they don't meet my criteria for keeping them (or room). If I don't potentially desire to hear a recording 3 times annually, out it goes.

 

I am NOT anti-Reiner. I have all his RCA stereo and some Pittsburgh performances, opera performances, etc.
This one recording just irks me when I can hear so many other's who provide a more sensuous observation of the music while still maintaining the excitement. Reiner's Hovhaness, Stravinsky, Strauss, William Tell Overture, etc. are just fantastic! His Verdi Requiem and Beethoven's 9th aren't my favorites either. Superior to Szell overall (I have less Szell than Reiner).

I disposed of over 18,000 LPs and 78s in the past 25 years as they don't meet my criteria for keeping them (or room). If I don't potentially desire to hear a recording 3 times annually, out it goes.

I don't like his Beethoven 9th either that's why in my earlier post I mentioned Reiner's Eroica, 5th and 7th.

Szell sounds better on first editions and quality drops progressively on represses where his performances feel dry. On first presses Szell and Cleveland you can hear a lot of textural and tonal variations and contrasts that help appreciate the music more. But yeah I don't like listening to his stuff on youtube while I like Reiner's on YT too.

 

I don't like his Beethoven 9th either that's why in my earlier post I mentioned Reiner's Eroica, 5th and 7th.

Szell sounds better on first editions and quality drops progressively on represses where his performances feel dry. On first presses Szell and Cleveland you can hear a lot of textural and tonal variations and contrasts that help appreciate the music more. But yeah I don't like listening to his stuff on youtube while I like Reiner's on YT too.

Youtube had a video of a live performance of Reiner conducting Wagner's Rienzi Overture. It was sensational! I didn't download it and it has been banned from Youtube now due to copywrite restrictions.

 

Szell sounds better on first editions and quality drops progressively on represses where his performances feel dry. On first presses Szell and Cleveland you can hear a lot of textural and tonal variations and contrasts that help. But yeah I don't like listening to his stuff on youtube while I like Reiner's on YT too.

Szell is fine for Russian compositions, Rimsky, Borodin, especially Tchaikovsky. And Sibelius -- I have heard many, but not all and thus far his 2nd ... I think 1958(?) ... tops them all except his final performance 2nd in Japan (not on LP.)

 

Szell is fine for Russian compositions, Rimsky, Borodin, especially Tchaikovsky. And Sibelius -- I have heard many, but not all and thus far his 2nd ... I think 1958(?) ... tops them all except his final performance 2nd in Japan (not on LP.)

on originals he is also excellent on Beethoven I have heard Eroica and 5th test pressings at General and 7th and 9th first edition.

 

Tape

 

Sigma MAAT Vector, Kondo Ginga, Lyra Olympos, all Kondo system, Reiner Scheherazade

I used to have a big room like that 25 X 23 X 10 avg. vaulted but now only 20 X15X10 of superior audio listening room construction. So, I'm satisfied with it Von Schweikert VR9 SE MK2 upgraded, pending Lampizator Poseidon and Jay's Audio CDt3 Mk3, probable Westminster Lab REIs, analog, R2R, etc. The Reiner doesn't satisfy me. I probably have over 3 dozen versions among my now 55,900 LPs/CDs/78s/R2Rs. The Beecham is one of my favorites. I like Monteux doubling the 4th movement horns as does Reiner. Leinsdorf/LA Phil is just so exciting to me despite it's lesser sound (I bet the mastertapes are spectacular as were so many classical Capitol LPs-Robert Pincus&Kevin Gray know that from their LP reissues).