What does a "dynamic sounding speaker" mean?

[Al M.]

Maybe you're too used to exaggerated dynamics? haha

Someone makes a reasonable post that you don't like and you attack him not his statements. Ad hominem argument is so tacky.

Yeah, it's getting lame.

 

[bonzo75]

Maybe you're too used to exaggerated dynamics? haha

Someone makes a reasonable post that you don't like and you attack him not his statements. Ad hominem argument is so tacky.

Sorry randomly saying something about components, such as exaggerated dynamics of horns and quoting klipschorn stereophile readings as an example, saying quads have dynamics and then OPPO is a great transport, and calling yourself industry expert is not reasonable to me

It is the equivalent of saying analog and digital sound the same when all you have heard is a project TT, an oppo, and calling yourself an analog expert

So randomly saying something about components without any lack of exposure is not ad hominem?

 

[tima]

Sorry randomly saying something about components, such as exaggerated dynamics of horns and quoting klipschorn stereophile readings as an example, saying quads have dynamics and then OPPO is a great transport, and calling yourself industry expert is not reasonable to me

It is the equivalent of saying analog and digital sound the same when all you have heard is a project TT, an oppo, and calling yourself an analog expert

So randomly saying something about components without any lack of exposure is not ad hominem?

What's the point? If you think its so important for you to discredit a claim or idea ('horns can have exaggerated dynamics', for example) why not present a different idea, evidence or argument. If what someone else says is unreasonable, wrong, or out of whack, don't you think others might see the same thing without you mocking or discrediting the person? Do you know him, his background, his experience? (Sorry mr. tmallin for talking about you in the third person, I'm trying to de-reference you to make a general point.)

I'm not meaning to flame you, Bonzo or police the area - I am saying there are other ways to deal with what you believe is wrong-headedness. At least Tang trys humor - his "I bought my reputation ... with a kidney" was at least a funny way to deflect. You can vent or get your point across in other ways without attacking someone's experience or the person themselves. In doing so you may actually open some eyes, educate or bring someone to see things differently. Be a hero, not a blue meanie.

I thought it might be interesting to read a discussion of whether horns can have exaggerated dynamics. To paraphrase Emperor Joseph, they're a technology not a holy relic.

 

[bonzo75]

I have read tmallin's posts before. I never saw anything that showed he had horns experience to make such a claim.

I accept your point there are better ways than to flame, but if someone says something that is out of whack, only regular keen readers will see it, while Google surfer lurkers will see an industry expert making that claim without knowing his background

 

[tima]

I accept your point there are better ways than to flame, but if someone says something that is out of whack, only regular keen readers will see it, while Google surfer lurkers will see an industry expert making that claim without knowing his background

Good. Better to give Google surfer lurkers the information to turn them into keen readers.

Now, maybe we get back to Assessor's question: What does a "dynamic sounding speaker" mean?

 

[Tango]

"I am innocent your honor." I was just mocking how the admin labels forum members. Nothing implying tmallin at all. Imo, Industry Expert is also a label from the admin. I don't think Tima or tmallin claims or says themself to be. Whereas Gian60 is labeled Well-Known Member. I think he should be labeled an "Italian Stallion" instead..hehe.

I shut up now. And wont appear in this thread again. Swooshhhh.

 

[Zero000]

Amir and Steve gave me the label based on the technical articles I wrote here. It was not self-proclaimed. And I am pretty sure I have never self-labeled myself an expert in anything.

The reference to an expert in my post was to Paul Klipsch, not myself.

In which case please accept my apologies. I actually made the post at 3 am and wasn't entirely awake.

 

[Al M.]

I thought it might be interesting to read a discussion of whether horns can have exaggerated dynamics. To paraphrase Emperor Joseph, they're a technology not a holy relic.

I'd be interested too. There appears to be a consensus that there is something like frequency-response related exaggerated detail. Why can't there be frequency-response related exaggerated dynamics?

There are all kinds of artifacts. For example, someone once mentioned to me that many mistake increased hardness of a system's sound upon the music getting louder for better dynamics. I think he had a point. Not saying that this particular artifact applies to horns.

(And no, Bonzo, before you blast me for lack of knowledge of horn sound, I think such a topic is interesting also from a theoretical point of view.)

 

[Al M.]

How do you call yourself an industry expert making such comments, including quads are dynamic (i love stats btw), and in another thread, saying OPPO is a great transport? Even my Mac air with no optimization and HQ player was better when Bill and I compare it at his.

I am all for value gear, and quads will be great but dynamic they are not. And I wouldn't buy OPPO for the price either

The OPPO also fared less favorably in direct comparison with my Simaudio Moon transport.

 

[morricab]

Horns may well exaggerate dynamics since they have a lot of midrange and high frequency peaks. Take a look at the Stereophile measurements of the newest Klipschorn here.

Not the best example of a modern horn . I would argue the other direction that most other speakers underrepresent dynamics and horns more faithfully track the dynamic envelope at more realistic SPL.

 

[Zero000]

Not the best example of a modern horn . I would argue the other direction that most other speakers underrepresent dynamics and horns more faithfully track the dynamic envelope at more realistic SPL.

I have to agree. Go stand by a drummer and the dynamics are amazing. No speaker seems to be able to get close to it. Mine actually have a good stab at it better than most.

Ask Ked

 

[bonzo75]

I have to agree. Go stand by a drummer and the dynamics are amazing. No speaker seems to be able to get close to it. Mine actually have a good stab at it better than most.

Ask Ked

I do agree with apogees and drums and tympani and that's why I like them

 

[the sound of Tao]

Not the best example of a modern horn . I would argue the other direction that most other speakers underrepresent dynamics and horns more faithfully track the dynamic envelope at more realistic SPL.

^ Nicely put. I’d have thought everything is essentially a synthesis and that horns as a type just have a clear advantage in the area of representing dynamics over most other speaker types.

Some horns may or may not exaggerate dynamics in some ways but clearly there are just such big differences between all the various horns but still as a breed are at least much more in the ballpark in attempting to represent dynamics.

Perhaps this is one of the primary reasons I have settled on horns as my favourite speaker over very good examples of both panel and box speakers as potential choices for me with both Magnepan 20.7s and Harbeth 40.2s. All great speakers but in the end the horns won for me.

 

[tima]

"I am innocent your honor." I was just mocking how the admin labels forum members. Nothing implying tmallin at all. Imo, Industry Expert is also a label from the admin. I don't think Tima or tmallin claims or says themself to be. Whereas Gian60 is labeled Well-Known Member. I think he should be labeled an "Italian Stallion" instead..hehe.

I shut up now. And wont appear in this thread again. Swooshhhh.

Sure. Of course some curiosity accrues to those proclaiming their innocence of crimes for which they are not accused. Swoooshhh. ;->

I joined WBF without self-appelation. Strictly speaking (from my perspective), as a Reviewer for industry acknowledged publications I'm considered an Industry member, at least by other industry participants and by my editors who vet my work and to whom I am accountable for my published articles. Of those, all are vetted by manufacturers for technical accuracy and general honesty in product description (but not opinion) prior to publication. There are guidelines. I can't speak for him but I think Brad would agree. However you consider reviewers you may or may not believe any expertise is involved.

 

[tima]

Some horns may or may not exaggerate dynamics in some ways but clearly there are just such big differences between all the various horns but still as a breed are at least much more in the ballpark in attempting to represent dynamics.

Do you find any of that frequency dependent?

Much of the discussion here lapses into the technology of different, er, formats. If the question is "What does a 'dynamic sounding speaker' mean?, I would not think a good answer would be 'horns'. By what criteria do we gauge a speaker to be dynamic sounding? Can we answer that without saying whose technology is more so than anothers?

 

[assessor43]

I had a group of friends over last night and we were listening and we all have multiple pairs of speakers. Maybe one needs a pair of speakers for all types of music one likes. Maybe Jbl/Altec Lansing for more seventies rock, Klipsch Lascalas with SET for intimate music sessions, Quads and other panel/electrostat designs can play most jazz and classical beautifully even some rock like Elvis, Traffic, blues, folk pretty much anything that does not have a pipe organ.

Something else I noticed especially in orchestral music. During very complex passages, my driver speakers would distort. I always thought it was my cartridge could not handle it. Come to find out it was my speakers that could not handle it. Is that due to crossover design, or speaker size? The quads just played it perfectly and effortlessly. we found ourselves shaking our heads with how quads play music in a a guess you could say "refined" way. They are very nice indeed.

 

[assessor43]

The main reason I asked the question is because i know that many do not look to quads for "dynamics". What got me thinking about this was I was listening to Herbie Hancocks Maiden Voyage through quad esl 57's. It was not an original issue, it was a reissue from the seventies "Blue Label". To say this recording sounded great on the Quads is an understatement. I saw someone writing about how dynamic a drum kit is on this thread and that is actually what got me thinking about this in the first place. The drum playing on this recording was so real sounding coming through just one channel as anyone who knows Blue Note Van Gelder recordings in stereo that this how he recorded them. The kick drum, heck the whole kit sounded as loud as it should. It was so amazing as I could hear the cymbal wobbling to the point where I could practically "see" it was very spooky to say the least. Then Freddie Hubbard starts blowing away loud and I mean loud just exploded and the full color of that sound was just incredible. This made me question my definition of what good dynamics are and trying to figure out if I am thinking about it correctly because the quads on this recording, to me sounded "dynamic"

 

[morricab]

Do you find any of that frequency dependent?

Much of the discussion here lapses into the technology of different, er, formats. If the question is "What does a 'dynamic sounding speaker' mean?, I would not think a good answer would be 'horns'. By what criteria do we gauge a speaker to be dynamic sounding? Can we answer that without saying whose technology is more so than anothers?

I would say that conventional speakers with cone/dome tweeters and small cone mids tend to compress those ranges on dynamic peaks. The very small and thin voice coils on tweeters are likely to heat up quickly and particularly if used down quite low and/or with shallow crossovers. A compression driver or large pro midrange (think minimum 8 inch with big VC) are specifically designed to delay the onset of thermal compression to happen at much higher SPL. At normal SPL they are barely breaking a sweat.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I have to agree. Go stand by a drummer and the dynamics are amazing. No speaker seems to be able to get close to it. Mine actually have a good stab at it better than most.

Ask Ked

Absolutely, Justin!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

The main reason I asked the question is because i know that many do not look to quads for "dynamics". What got me thinking about this was I was listening to Herbie Hancocks Maiden Voyage through quad esl 57's. It was not an original issue, it was a reissue from the seventies "Blue Label". To say this recording sounded great on the Quads is an understatement. I saw someone writing about how dynamic a drum kit is on this thread and that is actually what got me thinking about this in the first place. The drum playing on this recording was so real sounding coming through just one channel as anyone who knows Blue Note Van Gelder recordings in stereo that this how he recorded them. The kick drum, heck the whole kit sounded as loud as it should. It was so amazing as I could hear the cymbal wobbling to the point where I could practically "see" it was very spooky to say the least. Then Freddie Hubbard starts blowing away loud and I mean loud just exploded and the full color of that sound was just incredible. This made me question my definition of what good dynamics are and trying to figure out if I am thinking about it correctly because the quads on this recording, to me sounded "dynamic"

Do you have standard or modded 57s? You shouldn’t be able to get much more than late 90s dB. Beyond that and they’ll die. I think you’ll be surprised just how loud a dynamic peak of a trumpet of drum kit actually is when you are sat 10 feet from them.

Anyway - I love to read about your enthusiasm for the 57s and I totally get it. If I wasn’t building so many projects right now, I would dearly love to take on a multiple stacked Quad setup.

What amp are you using btw?