What does a "dynamic sounding speaker" mean?

morricab

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No point without a lot of listening, and even then it won't help. Otherwise all DIY horn builders would have built good horns with the amount of theory they know. You just need to stumble on someone who has experimented enough and got it right
So it sounds to me like you would say Ralph from Cessaro didn’t get it right...at least with the little one...
 

bonzo75

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I think trios should be easy to find somewhere, then OMA monarch and Diesis in N.Y.

Devore and Altec will also be easy to find in the US

it's surprising how many things you find once you start looking for them. Till a year or so ago, listening to Vyger was impossible. I used to scour the forums to find someone who has had one. Now in a year not only do both General and Bill and Gian have it, I have ended up listening to it in 6 systems and will get to hear it hopefully in three more.

Same happened when I was looking for Apogees. I have now heard universums with most of the amps I wanted to. Heard devores with many, as well as other speakers, or TTs. Once you start looking for things they appear. And you usually end up meeting someone who is an expert at that particular thing and he leads you to other people do it gains momentum
 

bonzo75

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So it sounds to me like you would say Ralph from Cessaro didn’t get it right...at least with the little one...

Well he is commercially successful. Commercial people have to have a lot of designs. It doesn't matter Cessaro or Lampi, they can't have everything in one model and leave at that. They have to have a lot of options and price points. Ralph is no different from Dave Wilson except one makes a horn and the other makes a cone
 

Audiophile Bill

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Do low frequency compression drivers (the diaphragm?) tend to be relatively large in diameter? Or is it mostly the throat/mouth size. I'm trying to get a better handle on the 'physics' you mention - longer wavelengths and the mechanical to acoustic 'interface'.



Yes, good point, particularly about the listening. Here in the states we grow up with conventional designs, planars and stats. I probably can't appreciate the case(s) you guys are making without more listening than there is opportunity - some but not much.

Hi Tima,

So you don’t need to use a compression driver in the bass to horn load the bass. For instance, the horn loaded bass cabinets from Altec / WE etc invariably used the 18” or 15” paper cone (field coil or Alnico) drivers loaded into huge horns - you probably have seen photos from Munich in the past.

There are very few instances of actual bass compression drivers let alone installations. The few companies mad enough to make them are for instance ALE and Goto. These ALE bass compression drivers employ gigantic magnets and weigh ridiculous amounts (100kg+). There are some mad men who also front load these in 9metre front loaded horns lol.

The only speaker I know commercially to use them is that mad new multi-way horn with multiamp and dsp. See attached.
 

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bonzo75

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Is that the Chinese one? Gian and pietro loved it at Munich
 

Audiophile Bill

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Is that the Chinese one? Gian and pietro loved it at Munich

Yes ESD. I don’t know of another commercial venture with compression bass drivers.
 

Audiophile Bill

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Some compression bass madness:
 

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jadis

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Years ago when a rocker friend said my Maggies were not dynamic I hit the EQ to boost the mid-bass (maybe 80~160 Hz) and upper treble (maybe 2~8 kHz) and then he thought they were "more dynamic".

Right or wrong, I think he and many others associate the upper-midrange peak with "dynamic" sound.

IME - Don

I have heard such comments left and right through the years since my purchase of my Maggies 2.7QRs, that they were not dynamic, but mostly meaning it cannot slam, punch or deliver lightning fast transients with super power. Well, I don't know how to put it in technical terms, but before my Maggies I owned several cone type 'dynamic' speakers like B&W801-S3s and B&W Matrix 800s (that was the typical definition of them here anyway), and I loved the way the Maggies handle 'dynamics' in my room - non fatiguing and very natural. What I admit it cannot do to compete with the bigger cone type speakers is the ultimate levels in terms of SPL loudness and sheer impact. But those, I do not miss anymore.
 

morricab

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Well he is commercially successful. Commercial people have to have a lot of designs. It doesn't matter Cessaro or Lampi, they can't have everything in one model and leave at that. They have to have a lot of options and price points. Ralph is no different from Dave Wilson except one makes a horn and the other makes a cone
Yes, but if it is such an abject failure (especially given what it costs and the driver quality) as you claim this can be very damaging to your reputation as a manufacturer of SOTA horns. This speaker should not be used in a really large room and should be close to the wall/corner to benefit from boundary gain. So, perhaps it was not being used as intended??

I use the same Supravox driver for my DIY midbass (215-2000) loaded in a TQWT cabinet (like what Cube audio and Horning do) and I can say that in that implementation it sounds very very good. It may be one of the top 8 inch drivers out there. So, I can understand why Cessaro uses it. The Liszt also uses a Supravox for the lower mids (285-2000).
 

marslo

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I agree but Marc likes both. I think as you guys approach 60 you listen only to the woofer and not to the top driver
Are you trying to offend me and other „adults” at WBF?;)
 
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kodomo

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I use a supravox 285-2000 in my midbass horn. Just a little bigger than cessaro midbass horn but I have a different throat. My driver is 12" but the horn throat is smaller as you can see from the drawing attached. Having a 12" throat does not work properly. My driver is also modified with removed dustcap etc. for better integration with midbass horn for intended bandwidth. Then there is the rear compression chamber which has to be built by measuring until finding the correct volume to have reactance annuling. There are so many things to consider building horns :)
 

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gian60

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I Listen many times Ale speaker with ALE Bass Horn with develop of 9 mt and DEP 160 driver for bass weight more than 100 KG,system first 4 way and then became 6 with against 4 way with always DEP ALE driver but woofer ALE W 4000 in carbon block box.

The bass with the beautiful ALE W 4000 was very good but was a toy against Bass horn with DEP 160
 
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Audiophile Bill

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I Listen many times Ale speaker with ALE Bass Horn with develop of 9 mt and DEP 160 driver for bass weight more than 100 KG,system first 4 way and then became 6 with against 4 way with always DEP ALE driver but woofer ALE W 4000 in carbon block box.

The bass with the beautiful ALE W 4000 was very good but was a toy against Bass horn with DEP 160

Hi Gian,

Is the ALE DEP160 the massive 160kg+ bass compression driver?
 

Audiophile Bill

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All driven by 12 mono amp transistor in current all hand made by Yamamura,also resistors

Hand wovwn resistor

Is it best system you ever heard?
 

assessor43

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The amps were Quicksilver 60 watt monoblocks, Well Tempered Turntable, Benz Micro Cartridge, Home made Phonostage, Aesthetix Preamplifier.
 
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DonH50

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Aside: Technically, to me anyway, the actual horn is the flared duct (waveguide) that the driver feeds. The driver most often associated with horns is a compression driver, a (relatively) small driver that can produce sound with relatively high efficiency when mated to a horn. But any type of driver can be mated to a horn, albeit coupling may be a challenge. The Klipschorn mentioned previously uses a compression driver (actually two) mated to horns for the mid/treble range and a conventional cone driver (woofer) mated to the bass horn.
 
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