Possibly the point of my post. I'm not sure. It's hard to tell from your response.
I've said all I have to say, and as clearly as I can within the limits of my own language. If you still want to start that thread, be my guest.
Cheers,
853guy
What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?
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Possibly the point of my post. I'm not sure. It's hard to tell from your response.
I've said all I have to say, and as clearly as I can within the limits of my own language. If you still want to start that thread, be my guest.
Cheers,
853guy
Hello, Nightlord and good morning to you. Logically? Honestly, no when you think about it presented like that. With that said, I noticed a somewhat dramatic change in just switching the outlets that the rig was plugged into. Armed with that knowledge, logically thinking....wouldn't one think that they would?
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?9334-What-is-your-take-on-AC-outlets
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...7-Furutech-GTX-D-NFC-(R)-outlets-this-morning
Tom
Good afternoon.
If the outlets are on the same voltage rail in the house and you connect it in the same phase - anything experienced is purely placebo.
Generally - any time you change something and try to hear differences, you're quite likely a target of placebo.
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Shunyata have excellent FAQs on power cables that deal with your first question: http://www.shunyata.com/index.php/support/faqs
MISCONCEPTION #3: There is up to a hundred feet of wire in the walls, so the last 6 feet of power cord can't possibly make any difference.
Answer: The PC is NOT the last 6 feet as stated in #1 and the local current and EM effects directly affect the sonic performance of the component. The power cord is not the last 6 feet, it is the first 6 feet from the perspective of the component. The further a noise source is from a component, the less of an impact it will have on the components power supply. The high-frequency noise sources that have the greatest impact on audio and video performance are the system components themselves -- which are usually all in close proximity of one another and all emit radiated fields of high-frequency noise. A well designed power cord can act as a noise-isolated extension of the primary winding of a component's power supply and will help isolate the power supply from the fields of radiated RF and EM noise energy that is ever present in all electronics systems.
And considering 2. I have never found an amp that I liked that did not change performance with different power cables. It seems you were luckier than most of us ...
Okay, our conversation will end here. It seems as if your mind is made up and that empirical evidence means nothing to you. Your absolutest statements are what causes heated debates and I will not engage. Have a good day sir.
For the record, when I try something new (even if I have heard it in another system before), I try to look for things that it can NOT do. I have been and always will be very skeptical of anything that is introduced into my rig. Whatever is introduced has to earn its place.
Tom
I would not take the word of a company with regards to the line of business they are in. They want to sell.
If you have any interferance inbetween components, you've chosen quite poorly or possibly run without ground. I'd start with shielding the components from eachother in the rack, if I had such a case.
I don't use amps that infer any sonic character at all, I'm not interested in tweaking sound for personal taste. If it was possible to infer any character to it by changing cable, it would be faulty.
Same to you.
My mind isn't made up. It's just that the laws of physics don't change in a house because an audiophile moves in.
If something changes because you draw a cable in another direction, then it hasn't anything to do with the cable (unless it's broken)... it has to do with the environment. Fix that instead. As my old golf instructor used to say "don't correct one fault with another".
Thanks for being so clear. IMHO you are against the mainstream of WBF - we feel we are fortunate to have several manufacturers in the forum, and we learn and debate a lot with them - surely not everyone agrees with them. It is an unique opportunity concerning high-end matters.
Good morning Bob.
If by reducing the gauge you mean to reduce the resistance of the wire, then I am afraid it won't make any difference. The reason is that you have a very long wire that feeds that outlet that in north america is probably 14 (default) or 12 (if you asked for it) gauge. Let's say that is 60 feet run to your audio outlet and you have a 6 foot wire. Even if you use a superconductor wire with zero resistance, you are only impacting 6/60 = 10% of the total resistance. And as such, you can only go from 100% resistance to 90%. It is mathematically impossible to go below 90% of the resistance no matter what gauge or material you used.
But let's say it could make a difference. My amplifier has a measured performance of 1,500 watts into 2 ohm using its stock, black power cord. With listening levels at a fraction of this power output, it is of no need of any other power cord with lower resistance.
All that you need here is what ddk said: you need good and tight connection because that is where power is lost. Touch the cord at its ends and see if you feel any warmth or use an infrared camera to measure its temp. That should tell you if there is an issue. There should not be in any high-end gear because it is shipped with a cord that produces that power and is safe.
It is not luck but knowledge. He knows how to evaluate gear with his ear and only his ear. If you do that, you will arrive at the same conclusion as him. Do the exercise I wrote for Tom. I guarantee you that it will not have the outcome you think.
Indeed, the "nothing special" Audio Art with F28 connectors is a hell of a cable and better, quite affordable. And if you buy one and don't like it, send it back for a complete refund. I've not found anything better for line level gear however big amps may be another story as once again application specificity is important. Frankly, a lot of this cable stuff only looks at one side of the equation. What you are plugging it into (whether it is AC cables or interconnects) is the other important factor and nobody seems to be exploring that in great detail. Do gold-plated copper terminations on cables always sound best with gold-plated copper outlets? Or do they sound better with nickel-plated brass outlets, or brass outlets without plating, etc. I'm still exploring. Fortunately, these sorts of exercises are very cheap to perform, but the results can be sonically meaningful. It's a jungle out there but gradually, I'm trying to correlate listening observations with straight forward metallurgy (anodic voltage differences between metals used for plating and the base metal) but I'm not yet able to connect all the dots. But for now, let's ignore theory. Listening is the only test worth anything.
Same to you.
My mind isn't made up. It's just that the laws of physics don't change in a house because an audiophile moves in.
If something changes because you draw a cable in another direction, then it hasn't anything to do with the cable (unless it's broken)... it has to do with the environment. Fix that instead. As my old golf instructor used to say "don't correct one fault with another".
So you intuitively know all the laws of physics and have nothing left to learn? This is the problem with people like you and Amir, you think you've absorbed the entirety of the universe's knowledge via your 4-6 year degree and have nothing left to learn. Or you've had some limited experience that you think defines the entire world. You think everyone has the same skills and training for hearing, "we all hear the same". All of this is total garbage and the result of naivety and ignorance.
I'm going to go out on a limb after reading a more of this thread and say that the assumptions I listed above are major problems and those who hold those beliefs are impossible to hold a conversation with, impossible to reason with and do much more harm that good in their evangelical, "let's save the stupid audiophile" attitude of posting. It's ironic because you guys are much more deluded than the typical audiophile.
I'm a mechanical engineer and don't want to drive away those with good technical knowledge from participating, but imo it's not worth it if the poster also has the attitudes I described above.
P.S. If you actually try a Furutech NCF receptacle there will no longer be any possible way you will still hold the beliefs you currently hold. If you actually have a mind that is open enough to experiment... most of you don't because you think you already know the outcome, but that's some heavy-duty arrogance and is far more faith-based than scientific. So, get that one single receptacle, on the grand scale of things it's a very cheap experiment as resale will be good, put it in your wall feeding your power distributor and come back with a post about how wrong you were.
Gold plated copper is warm and reduces resolution. Rhodium is better but has some identifiable artifacts in most connectors... the new Furutech NCF are very close to neutral, they seem to eliminate that tiny bit of glassiness in the sound but are only available as AC plugs. WBT's platinum plated silver is as neutral as you'll ever find imo. Brass/bronze is grainy and should be avoided no matter what plating is used, though Furutech's bronze is decent, not as good as copper but much better than most copper alloys.
Absolutely NOT true. This characteristic is what makes a bad cable a bad cable, and imo most cables are actually bad cables. If it has an identifiable sonic signature the cable is a failure imo. My top end cables have no identifiable sonic signature.
Fascinating thread. I've been spending an obscene amount of time auditioning power cables lately. In my system, the differences between any cables are dramatic. Even my wife can often guess which cables I'm using at any moment as I've borrowed her ears many times to help me determine the differences.
The ones that I really like are, unfortunately, incredibly expensive and I'm very hesitant to buy them for that reason (I could buy a high end line or phono stage for the same amount).
I will say that I own (and like) the Audio Art cables that Marty recommended. They are very, very good and reasonably priced.
In general I am a true believer in cables. Like rolling tubes, it always seems to be a tradeoff of some sort as nothing is truly neutral or linear.
The ones that I really like are, unfortunately, incredibly expensive and I'm very hesitant to buy them for that reason (I could buy a high end line or phono stage for the same amount).
I will say that I own (and like) the Audio Art cables that Marty recommended. They are very, very good and reasonably priced.
In general I am a true believer in cables. Like rolling tubes, it always seems to be a tradeoff of some sort as nothing is truly neutral or linear.
The way I always judged a power cable was if it expanded the soundstage,when comparing others. I have found the tonal balance brings forth as the circuit is perfected. When comparing PC's the soundstage collapsed with some and weren't as good as the cable I had in place.
I have also observed that some gear responds well to a change and others? Eh, not so much. Even with the same cord.
Tom
Tom
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I agree... soundstage is a great indicator of how well a system is working overall. When you take away artifacts and noise you get more resolution which directly equates to more 3-D, immersive soundstage.
Ian, I believe they make a big difference but I find the exercise pointless till gear is settled, which usually isn't the case (don't tell anybody, but there is this guy called madFloyd...)
Now, if you choose your dream power cable it might not work optimally when you change a component. When I first borrowed the Tara, I returned it to my friend. Two months later when I went to his place, I told him something is wrong - haven't you put back the Tara? Indeed he hadn't, and the soundstage was miserable. He put it back in and all was fine. Having said that, liked it, recommended it, bought it (audiophile Bill, audiocrack, Bflowers and many others use these btw), my retrospective recommendation is that it does not work in all systems, and especially that if you are adding more than one you have to be careful that it is not darkening the sound.
Audience are clean and fast, at low prices but lack some body and fullness. I think optimizing cables is extremely tough, so more mileage by diverting funds elsewhere imo. I will keep Audience, or something neutral like Cardas and focus elsewhere
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