What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?

[Mike Lavigne]

you just have to ignore Amir. unless you desire a round and round techie discussion.....which a few among is do enjoy.

Amir is here to cure us of our delusions. we subjectivists/listeners/audiophiles don't want to be cured, and especially don't enjoy being bothered.

he is not going away. he is on a mission. he is the human ping pong ball wall. never getting tired.

so don't respond.

how many times must we learn this?

Amir + cable thread = black hole

 

[thedudeabides]

And what drives me to post otherwise here.

Given all the acrimony you have caused and continue to cause on this site, there are clearly other reasons that would explain your incessant trolling activities.

Would be interesting to have a vote of forum members who would support banning this individual.

 

[Steve williams]

I find it interesting that he is sure to let everyone know that he has $10K of his own money for the challenge but finds the expense to get to Toms house too prohibitive. And yes someone got it right on as there isn't a way in hell I would let him come within miles of my house let alone let him in the front door. As Mike Lavigne can attest.

You're right Leif he's wasting our time.

 

[microstrip]

Hi I have had/heard cable looms. Overrated.

Anyway, my opinion aside, the jury is still out if one needs an entire loom, only the same signal loom with power cables differing, and within that do you need same power cables or you could have different ones.
(...)

My apologies if it was not clear - most of the time when I said "loom" I addressed "power loom" or "signal (IC and sp) loom" separately. It is what I can get together most of the time. Although I have had complete power and signal loom for Shunyata, Odin, Opus and still have the Van den Hul's, my comments addressed mainly separate looms.

But yes, if it was not for price I would be very happy with complete looms of Odin or Opus GenV!

Why do we need a jury in WBF? Fortunately we all know they would never reach an unanimous conclusion!

 

[amirm]

I find it interesting that he is sure to let everyone know that he has $10K of his own money for the challenge but finds the expense to get to Toms house too prohibitive. And yes someone got it right on as there isn't a way in hell I would let him come within miles of my house let alone let him in the front door. As Mike Lavigne can attest.

Let me tell you another reason why I am hesitant to take on Tom's offer. Despite some of the friction between he and I, I consider him a hell of a nice guy and in the list that includes the likes of you, he would be way at the bottom of list of people I like to see embarrased this way. If you are his friend, I highly encourage you not push him into the firing line that you won't approach yourself.

You're right Leif he's wasting our time.

I will be at AXPONA and so will Leif with his cables and his system. It would be my pleasure to go and test his observations after hours if he is game. I know there are other WBF members who will be there and they can come and observe.

 

[NorthStar]

Earlier I wanted to say something in this 'vulcanized' thread about power cords and conditioners. But I didn't; I went another way.

Now I will: There is no gain to obtain by banning anyone. If we aren't smart enough to face all people with dignity, respect, civility, then we're missing some.

That's all.

 

[bonzo75]

My apologies if it was not clear - most of the time when I said "loom" I addressed "power loom" or "signal (IC and sp) loom" separately. It is what I can get together most of the time. Although I have had complete power and signal loom for Shunyata, Odin, Opus and still have the Van den Hul's, my comments addressed mainly separate looms.

But yes, if it was not for price I would be very happy with complete looms of Odin or Opus GenV!

Why do we need a jury in WBF? Fortunately we all know they would never reach an unanimous conclusion!

Ok, I think signal loom makes sense but power cables can differ based on the component they are feeding.

 

[DaveC]

I haven't read the entire thread but the cheap vs expensive is a false dichotomy. There are cables with all different prices and all different character. Imo.... Most are not good and do add artifacts, but it's a trade off vs other factors. It is possible to find extremely neutral cables that offer good resolution. Cheap copper cables smooth out detail, especially interconnects, and while this isn't recognized as an artifact it is, and it has a major detrimental effect just like any artifact.

 

[Leif S]

Let me tell you another reason why I am hesitant to take on Tom's offer. Despite some of the friction between he and I, I consider him a hell of a nice guy and in the list that includes the likes of you, he would be way at the bottom of list of people I like to see embarrased this way. If you are his friend, I highly encourage you not push him into the firing line that you won't approach yourself.


I will be at AXPONA and so will Leif with his cables and his system. It would be my pleasure to go and test his observations after hours if he is game. I know there are other WBF members who will be there and they can come and observe.

Sorry Amir....

I have a golden rule that once the cables are installed I won't touch them until the show is over. But you don't believe in settling time so you can just accuse me of being scared to take you up on your challenge. I don't have time for you anymore. I'm not touching that system once setup is completed on Thursday. And as you have previously stated, you don't attribute the overall performance of the system to have anything to do with the cables and we are all delusional. I'll just stay in my delusion thank you very much!!!

 

[NorthStar]

It's funny, it's just a conversation about power cords and conditioners that can improve bass tightness and it reads like a life and death situation @ Hacksaw Ridge between the Americans and Japanese. Great movie by the way, based on a true story, highly recommended, and not for the faint oh heart, ... with Mel Gibson @ the direction.
I know some hate him deeply (Mel), but this thread reminds me a little of that flick anyway...@ times. Lol, it's only an AC wire to power whatever; your sub, amp or preamp, phono amp, tt, music server, open-reel-tape deck, CD player, DAC, ...

 

[microstrip]

Ok, I think signal loom makes sense but power cables can differ based on the component they are feeding.

Power cables should be non predictable - mains noise and distortion characteristics differ a lot from place to place. Also the noise generated by equipment and sent back or reflected by the cable differs a lot - some designers optimize this aspect in specific ways, others even ignore it.

However power cables have clear sound signatures - e.g, David cables, van den Hul's, Odin's or Transparent OPUS have some sound characteristics that follow them in completely different systems.

 

[thedudeabides]

It's funny, it's just a conversation about power cords and conditioners that can improve bass tightness and it reads like a life and death situation

Bless your heart Bob for being the true renaissance man but we all know it's something much deeper than that.

This is about someone who consistently tries to create a confrontational, disruptive environment to satisfy his own ego and offers little to promote constructive, positive dialogue.

Again, much like an uninvited guest at a party who gets drunk and conducts himself in a disrespective manner.

Anyway you want to look at it, absent looking through your wonderful rose colored glasses, this is a troll.

PS: Done with this absent a reply from the troll.

 

[BruceD]

BTW, buyers should be careful with chinese origin counterfeit cables in the used market - although they are easily identified if you have experience with the originals, they really look similar ...

Indeed here is one type--the original terminations are twisted coupling--NOT single wire as here--

BD

 

[NorthStar]

Bless your heart Bob for being the true renaissance man but we all know it's something much deeper than that.

This is about someone who consistently tries to creates a confrontational, disruptive environment to satisfy his own ego and offers little to promote constructive, positive dialogue.

Again, much like an uninvited guest at a party who gets drunk and conducts himself in a disrespective manner.

Anyway you want to look at it, absent looking through your wonderful rose colored glasses, this is a troll.

PS: Done with this absent a reply from the troll.

Gordon? You are always very nice. :b

Amir is a smart guy, I'm sure he has several power cords @ home that he can test and share his results with the world.
I believe in the power of listening, the power of persuasion and the power of preference. I also like measurements for another dose of confidence.
It's a balance of everything important, not just one thing. It's the road to higher learning and knowledge to question, to improve, to perfect.
There are values we all cherish and use as guidance in our lives; there are as many values as there are people living on our planet..7.5 billions of them and with all the variables.

We have the power to improve this world we live in; the greatest challenge of them all. We are weak, sensitive, in constant need of support and appreciation.
Without that it is very tough to advance positively...I think.

I'm sorry, I just don't know the improvement in sound quality between a generic and an ultra hi-end AC power cable when introduced in an ultra hi-end hi-fi stereo sound system. It is simply out of my league as I cannot afford a system over a certain budget; I am extremely limited.

But, tests can be performed and I can be a witness, and auditor, a listener taking notes. That would be best.

Last note: To me there's no use to call people by names, like troll, because doing so is to call ourselves first.
Confrontation is good, we learn from conflicts. The important thing is mutual respect...always.
It's not always easy, because we don't always understand with true balance, fair judgement all the mechanisms of all theories and processes.
We use what we know to base our believes. And I believe that the higher force is to explore all avenues, known and unknown.

Among the greatest scientists of the planet there exists great discordance. It's normal because no one was born above all others with the knowledge of a master of the universe.
It is not important what I believe, what he believes, what we all believe; what is is how did we get there and how are we going to the next phase. IMO

We need some guidance, coordinates, solid foundations, constantly questioning so that we can advance further. It's part of who we are, what we're made of, human nature, man's/woman's thirst of knowledge for the best ways of living all among ourselves together.

This is nothing this power cords thing, nothing in comparison to more serious world's matter.
But because it is one of our hobbies in life to perfect our listening pleasure to the music we love; it's worth it to find out.
Put aside all our differences and concentrate our mutual energy, our togetherness @ the service of our future generations...the children of our children's children.

I am quite certain that only a small minority is going to follow the footsteps of the high-end audio product manufacturers. It's still an important minority, nonetheless, and it deserves all the highest respect.

For all of us to learn from the masters is the art of higher knowledge. We judge no one and no one is judging us. We work openly together, without hiding, without personal gain interest. We weren't born to live one, but to live all.

 

[NorthStar]

Here's a question to the highest highness of audio guru ultra hi-end audiofiles: Is is worth it to buy AC power cords that sell for thousands and thousands of dollars?
What is the measured percentage of listening improvement satisfaction between a good quality AC power cord (say $20) and one for $2,000 (2 meters)?

There must have been some tests performed out there; any conclusive ones?
Everything I learned from audio articles from expert audio cables (Bell Labs) for the last 45 years; should I ignore it and relearn all over again the newest and latest technologies and materials used in audio signals transmission of a super ultra hi-end stereo sound system?

Is a cable of 0.001AWG gauge better than a 10AWG one? The former is so thick that it won't even fit through a normal entrance door.
Is pure silver better than pure gold better than pure copper better than pure fiber optic audio signals transmission conductor?
Analog RCA, XLR or digital optical glass or digital coaxial or HDMI? Which interconnect produces the best and tightest and deepest bass?

 

[Whatmore]

For a so called expert you are truly a ignorant *******! Get the **** out of here!

Out of interest, do you only want to hear opinions from people who agree with you or would you abuse Amir even then?

 

[Nightlord]

Have read all pages now and there's a few things that sticks out to me. If we're not discussing a location with severely poor power delivered, or severe RF from nearby...

1) Do you really think it's logical that changing the last few feet to the amp would be able to do a better job than the cable you have in your wall is doing? If you use the same cable (as in the wall) the rest of the way it would be the same as plugging the amp directly in the wall...

2) IF I'd notice a change to how my amp performs when changing power cable - I'd be looking for a new amp as the power supply obviously wasn't performing as it should.


A power conditioner is the power is unstable/noicy I won't say anything about... that has a bit more technological merit... (but it would have to be carefully chosen so it's not causing as much problems as claiming to solve).

 

[Whatmore]

I agree with you it is the best way of reaching disappointment after some time and the initial enthusiasm. People buy isolated cables at high discount prices, and never assemble or test complete or coherent looms because they get used to the nice prices and the used market is mobile. I was guilty of this practice more than once, but managed to deal with it. I bought a set of the great sounding Crystal Dreamline cables used at a nice price, but as the complementary pairs did not show at the usual sites I had to buy all the others from our distributor at new price ...

BTW, buyers should be careful with chinese origin counterfeit cables in the used market - although they are easily identified if you have experience with the originals, they really look similar ...

Indeed here is one type--the original terminations are twisted coupling--NOT single wire as here--

BD

View attachment 31473

I've said this many times, you Americans have no sense of irony whatsoever.
You couldn't make this stuff up, it's too funny ....

 

[853guy]

I'm thinking of starting a completely new "Amir bashing" thread.
That way everyone knows where to head if they want their fix

Seriously though, you guys ought to hang your heads in shame. You claim to be a friendly, welcoming and knowledgeable site. Yet you lower yourselves to the level of personal abuse at the drop of a hat.

And the person who should set the tone for the sight, the guy who runs it, is amongst the worst.

Really. I doubt this will make a difference to anyone here, but my children behave better than you lot do.
And they don't even respond with "but he started it..." which no doubt some of you will be thinking right now.

For shame.

Hi Whatmore,

You’re perfectly entitled to start that thread, just as much as you are to take offence at those posts you consider offensive for their “bashing”. This is, after all, your forum too in as much as it is anyone else’s, so you should post whatever you like, provided you’re willing to accept responsibility for both the content and the tone.

Personally, I think conduct matters. Much more than the words themselves. And once that conduct begins to manifest as a behavioural pattern - and not just here, but in thousands of other posts on other forums - I think it’s okay to call it out for what it is. Data, knowledge and experience can be used in many ways. But once a person decides to use it to constantly and consistently target, undermine and disparage others - especially and specifically those whom the poster is fully aware do not share their worldview - it’s tantamount to bullying.

And when the poster - even when repeatedly confronted with the behaviour - not only refuses to apologise, but continually avoids taking responsibility for it through “funny” pics, deflection and/or doubling down on the same behaviour, it ultimately says: I do not give a **** about anyone else but myself.

Isolated incidents in which the person agrees to take responsibility for their behaviour is one thing. Repeated, habitual behaviour in which the person avoids taking responsibility for their behaviour is another. I made a decision that ignoring the behaviour wasn’t the sort of thing I was comfortable doing anymore, because fundamentally, it was no different than enabling it. No one else need share my perspective, but personally, I have little confidence an “Amir bashing” thread will change anything. And certainly not the perpetrator of the type of behaviour I’ve mentioned above.

Best,

853guy

 

[Whatmore]

Hi Whatmore,

You’re perfectly entitled to start that thread, just as much as you are to take offence at those posts you consider offensive for their “bashing”. This is, after all, your forum too in as much as it is anyone else’s, so you should post whatever you like, provided you’re willing to accept responsibility for both the content and the tone.

Personally, I think conduct matters. Much more than the words themselves. And once that conduct begins to manifest as a behavioural pattern - and not just here, but in thousands of other posts on other forums - I think it’s okay to call it out for what it is. Data, knowledge and experience can be used in many ways. But once a person decides to use it to constantly and consistently target, undermine and disparage others - especially and specifically those whom the poster is fully aware do not share their worldview - it’s tantamount to bullying.

And when the poster - even when repeatedly confronted with the behaviour - not only refuses to apologise, but continually avoids taking responsibility for it through “funny” pics, deflection and/or doubling down on the same behaviour, it ultimately says: I do not give a **** about anyone else but myself.

Isolated incidents in which the person agrees to take responsibility for their behaviour is one thing. Repeated, habitual behaviour in which the person avoids taking responsibility for their behaviour is another. I made a decision that ignoring the behaviour wasn’t the sort of thing I was comfortable doing anymore, because fundamentally, it was no different than enabling it. No one else need share my perspective, but personally, I have little confidence an “Amir bashing” thread will change anything. And certainly not the perpetrator of the type of behaviour I’ve mentioned above.

Best,

853guy

so, in a nutshell, "he started it......"

Have I missed anything ?