What is it about the bass, that it becomes so robust with after-market cords and conditioners?
- Thread starter caesar
- Start date
- Status
This is a can of worms that scares me
If the power cables don't sound any good, how do I know *why*. Maybe they are actually no good or maybe they don't play nicely with the interconnects, or maybe a different amp altogether would give an amazing synergy.
The mind boggles at the endless combinations and the ways to get it wrong without even knowing what's wrong.
This is a can of worms that scares me
If the power cables don't sound any good, how do I know *why*. Maybe they are actually no good or maybe they don't play nicely with the interconnects, or maybe a different amp altogether would give an amazing synergy.
The mind boggles at the endless combinations and the ways to get it wrong without even knowing what's wrong.
Your absolutely right. It can suck. I've been doing this for years and still new things are taking the sound beyond what I've experienced before. I'm starting to think it never ends.
I'll say this once and once only. For 10K, I need to know what the test parameters are. If Amir is serious, I'm willing to take him up on the challenge.....just need to know what the *actual* parameters are up front.
The debate has gone on and on for decades, this is undisputed.
I trust my ears, this is also undisputed.
If we can use Steve's system, his cables (Masterbuilt) versus CC or whatever....AND IF Steve is up to this, I'm game. No joke.
If I can tell the change between a lesser system and mine and if I can tell the change between my system and others? I damned sure can tell the difference between my system and Steve's, even though I have not heard his system before. So put up or give it up.
End of story. No further changes, period. 10K.
Tom
The debate has gone on and on for decades, this is undisputed.
I trust my ears, this is also undisputed.
If we can use Steve's system, his cables (Masterbuilt) versus CC or whatever....AND IF Steve is up to this, I'm game. No joke.
If I can tell the change between a lesser system and mine and if I can tell the change between my system and others? I damned sure can tell the difference between my system and Steve's, even though I have not heard his system before. So put up or give it up.
End of story. No further changes, period. 10K.
Tom
Last edited:
Yes as stated earlier David mentioned he is visiting Steve in the near future--and we can all get the report on his preferred looms vs the Masterbuilts
Its coming!
BruceD
Based on another thread, it sounds as if he prefers Masterbuilts. He used to be a big Shunyata fan, so I am now curious about the Masterbuilt power cords myself.
True but the hypothesis is that the "Audiophile" cords we are at presently weaned on --"IF" they are doing some of things touted--Boosting Bass,Mid Suckout,Rolled off Treble/etc/etc--
and the $20 or so ones prove to be more "Neutral" to the original recording across the entire listening Spectrum without the previous " false anomalies" presented by the so called Audio grade ones
I'd certainly like to know--and if I agree with the sound--like I said I possible could recoup some of my ill gotten gains spent on Kodachrome presentation PCs!
Next!
BruceD
Do you think Amir would risking life and limb to go into Steve's house for *any* reason, let alone to conduct a double blind cable test.
This is a can of worms that scares me
If the power cables don't sound any good, how do I know *why*. Maybe they are actually no good or maybe they don't play nicely with the interconnects, or maybe a different amp altogether would give an amazing synergy.
The mind boggles at the endless combinations and the ways to get it wrong without even knowing what's wrong.
The only way is using the ears and listening ... I keep complete power looms of van den Hul, David (ddk), Nordost Quantum, old Audioquest and Belden, and have easy access to Shunyata, Nordost and Transparent Audio top power cables for limited periods.
I have found that synergy with the system is the keyword - there is no "best" power cable. I can easily accept that in David system his recommended power cables are the best - surely his Lamm's, analog system and Bionor's have requirements that strongly differ from those of my own system. Also any one reading WBF since long will see that our musical preferences differ significantly.
Marty has detailed some cable experiences here, and his new finds are relatively low cost http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...y-reduce-noise&p=384657&viewfull=1#post384657
Mike,
It is a lovely sentence but IMHO somewhat out of reality. Every cable (power or signal) changes the music in a very difficult to foresee way, but very significant. For example, power cables that sounded great with my DartZeel's did not sound good with other brands. Since all cables modify music, my view is that cable designers should use their talent to improve sound reproduction, as they do. IMHO "being neutral" is mostly used as marketing keyword - in this hobby most people try to claim they are more "neutral" that their neighbors.
IMHO cable manufacturers have the same rights as other high-end designers and manufacturers!
BTW, I never tried Gary power cables. He friendly suggested it, but it was impossible to get them here as they are not CE certified.
A friend of mine and I tried the Tara Colbalts and the top Tara in different systems - they were excellent on the bass and the stage, but on one horns system got so dark that the top half of the soundstage seemed cut off. I have had Audience, Zensati 20k speaker, Audioquest 16k K2 speaker, Kubala loom, Virtual Dynamics loom, Graditech speaker for comparisons in my system, and compared the Ansuz C, Odin, and Audience in another system. We have also compared the Tara power cables to Sablon and the 20k Siltech (all are good).
While they change sounds, I generally have no interest in upgrading cables until final system settles. If a cable does something drastically wrong I will have to fix that with another, but as such the delta is much less. My favorite rooms and systems, Mike's aside, have had no correlation to the cables (not saying that the ones with bellwires could not be improved).
I have Tara and Kimber K10 Palladian power cords, Audience 24SE signal cables. I will stick to cables which are excellent value in the used market, low cost and liquid.
I also have access to Tellerium Q, the 40k crystal speaker, High fidelity, for demo, and have demoed them.
IMO chasing expensive cables is great for fun but not required for sound, though it might help. There are just too many ways to improve sound before getting to the cables.
While they change sounds, I generally have no interest in upgrading cables until final system settles. If a cable does something drastically wrong I will have to fix that with another, but as such the delta is much less. My favorite rooms and systems, Mike's aside, have had no correlation to the cables (not saying that the ones with bellwires could not be improved).
I have Tara and Kimber K10 Palladian power cords, Audience 24SE signal cables. I will stick to cables which are excellent value in the used market, low cost and liquid.
I also have access to Tellerium Q, the 40k crystal speaker, High fidelity, for demo, and have demoed them.
IMO chasing expensive cables is great for fun but not required for sound, though it might help. There are just too many ways to improve sound before getting to the cables.
Mike,
It is a lovely sentence but IMHO somewhat out of reality. Every cable (power or signal) changes the music in a very difficult to foresee way, but very significant. For example, power cables that sounded great with my DartZeel's did not sound good with other brands. Since all cables modify music, my view is that cable designers should use their talent to improve sound reproduction, as they do. IMHO "being neutral" is mostly used as marketing keyword - in this hobby most people try to claim they are more "neutral" that their neighbors.
IMHO cable manufacturers have the same rights as other high-end designers and manufacturers!
BTW, I never tried Gary power cables. He friendly suggested it, but it was impossible to get them here as they are not CE certified.
well......for me it was reality.
up till 2010 I had tried lots of different power cords, but nothing was just right. I did find that the in-line conditioners in the Jena Labs power cords had a net overall positive difference in my system so that is what I was using.
in 2010 when I installed my Equi=tech I had all these Jena Labs 'The One' power cables which had in-line power conditioners/filters. it turned out they were tone controls and had a great deal of noise once they were dealing with a clean power grid from my isolation transformer. so I started trying out my stock power cords as alternatives which I did not like either but were less in the way. then I happened to listen to one of Gary's sorta by accident, and it was just this clean, clear view not adding anything. so I figured why muck it up.
and Gary's power cords, as you say, are not CE certified, they are also not UL approved either. they are delicate, you cannot walk on them like other power cords (which is why they are not UL approved) but for my system that is not important. they sound great, and open and un-colored. and the Furutech NCF plugs were a no-brainer.
but these type perceptions are all relative as this is a subjective listening opinion. I agree there is not an ultimate reference for the sound of a power cord. there is only context and opinion. honestly; I don't even think about power cords any more unless someone brings it up.
YMMV, my 2 cents and all that stuff. it's a cable thread for god's sake.
Last edited:
+ 1
Btw, if all system was set up, do you think upgrading the cable loom is more important or the Tripoint?
Tripoint, Tripoint, Tripoint, Tripoint.
no even in the same realm.
cables do matter. but not nearly as much.
but having a system sorted out first is still important. you cannot just throw a Tripoint into the mix until system synergies are established and room and power and such are dealt with. it's not plug and play. you would not know what was doing what.
but a mature system will go farther with Tripoint than cable upgrades.
of course, typically we tend to buy expensive cables on our way to system synergy, and don't wait until we are there. so this decision does not wait for maturity.
yes, but the Tripoint brings more than just less noise. it adds coherence and pace and enhanced musical flow. less distortion and possibly more phase coherent. something locks in.
it's a punch in the nose with undeniable musical goodness.
the Entreq does similar things in some spots, but is less profound by many degrees (and cheaper by those same degrees).
IME this happens more because of boredom. Often audiophiles get stuck in a space and budget, and it is impossible to upgrade speakers or do massively expensive, large sized upgrades. So the only way to scratch the audiophile itch is to buy a couple of cables in the used market. Most audiophiles cannot sleep unless we spend a certain amount each month, and cables are a nice outlet, so cable upgrades continue on the way to system synergy.
hey, I recall my own exact interlude; in 2005 where I bought a pair (2 sets) of $34k list price ($64k!!!! list price) TA Opus MM speaker cables for bi-amping my VR9SE's with a pair of dart 108 stereo amps. seemed like a fun thing to do at the time. I was throwing money at the system instead of understanding the room and related issues.
of course; looking back I had much to learn and a long way to go......but at that time I was living large.
Exactly my points - your own reality at the moment, as with any other audiophile who is evolving.
Fully agree with the "relative" aspect. You had a fascinating and enjoyable journey and now settled with more than $30k worth as power conditioners and power cables that seem fundamental to your system preference.
The good thing of audio forums is learning about other systems and experiences and sharing ours.
- Status
Similar threads
 | Steve Williams Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator |  | Ron Resnick Site Owner | Administrator |  | Julian (The Fixer) Website Build | Marketing Managersing |