What is the best speaker you have ever owned ?????

[Brian Beck]

Brian,

I admit I do not fully understand the lineage of the Apogee line. how should these be ordered:
Apogee Grand
Apogee Studio Grand
Apogee Mini-Grand
Apogee Stage
Apogee Scintilla
Apogee Diva

Do you mean time frame? My guess is that the sequence was something like this:

Full-Range
Scintilla
Duetta
Diva
Grand
Mini-Grand (Studio Grand?)
Stage

I may be wrong about the last three, but there are others on this forum who will know.

 

[MrAcoustat]

This is my friend Jocelyn's system, sorry for the dark picture i'm not a very good photographer.

Plinius SA-250MK1V amplifier upgraded to a Reference
Promitheus Signature double c core mono preamps
Ayon CD-1 highly modified
Acoustat Spectra 8800s DIY
JL Audio F-112 subwoofers ( 2 )

- - - - - -

 

[MylesBAstor]

I use two modified Audio Research D-250 Mk II Servo amps. I doubled the power supply energy storage to about 1100 joules per amp. I use one stereo amp per channel for vertical bi-amping arrangement. The Diva, unlike the 1-ohm Scintilla, has a nice 3- to 4-ohm impedance so I can use the 4-ohm taps on the ARC amps. I have extensively modified the Apogee DAX 3 crossover (not the crossover frequency choices, just mods for sound quality). The combination works very, very well. The sound is effortless, immense, neutral, detailed yet subtle.

The Grand is certainly interesting, but it is chock full of old opamps in all the electronics in front of all the drivers (I have the full set of schematics), so it would need some work, even if the electro-mechanical parts are the best.

I think IIRC the Grand because of its impedance dropping to 0.25 ohms, could only really be driven in its day but two amps: Krell and Electrocompaniet.

Welcome aboard Brian. Those 250s were real honeys in their day!

 

[puroagave]

Do you mean time frame? My guess is that the sequence was something like this:

Full-Range
Scintilla
Duetta
Diva
Grand
Mini-Grand (Studio Grand?)
Stage

I may be wrong about the last three, but there are others on this forum who will know.

From one of the apogee legacy sites:

1982 The Full Range also known as "The Apogee" is the first full ribbon speaker released
1985 The legendary Scintilla is released to critical acclaim around the world
1986 Release of the original Duetta, a smaller and more importantly easier to drive Apogee
1987 Release of the Caliper, the smallest Apogee so far, and the revised Duetta II
1988 The Diva, Apogees second 3 way with a true ribbon tweeter enters production, late 1988 saw the release of Duetta Signature which came to be Apogees most popular speaker
1989 The revised Caliper Signature is released
1990 Apogees smallest and cheapest speaker the Stage is released, the first with etched ribbon components
1991 The Centaurus range, Centaur Minor, Centaur and Centaur Major are released, Apogees first hybrid range ribbon/cone speakers
1992 Release of the Grand series, Mini Grand, Studio Grand, and Grand the companies statement speaker
1994 The Slant range, replacement range for the Centaurus are released
1998 Home theatre LCR (Perseus), Ribbon Monitor, Column and In-wall speakers released, ADS Technology Inc purchase Apogee
1999 ADS closes Apogee Acoustics as it is considered not commercially viable, leaving owners without spares support, Matt Carnicelli starts the Apogee Acoustics Users Group

 

[puroagave]

Yeah, I know that Krell and Apogee were considered inseparable partners, de rigueur. But I have never warmed up to Krell amps. I have always preferred good tube amps. The big ARC D-250s were a high point in ARC history I think (and so does at least one senior employee at ARC who still uses them). I'm sure there are some very fine big SS amps out there these days, but I see no reason to change (until tube replacement time)

bridged Classé DR-3 VHCs were the ticket for scintillas, they were very hard to drive. I witnessed a levinson no 23 go up in smoke (literally) when the owner bypassed the fuses (doh). otoh, the duetta's bass was much more even that the scintilla which exaggerated the bottom two octaves. the diva hit the sweet spot, they had it all maybe because they're three way or the increased height, larger panel area whatever...you're lucky they truly are speakers for life.

 

[MrAcoustat]

bridged Classé DR-3 VHCs were the ticket for scintillas, they were very hard to drive. I witnessed a levinson no 23 go up in smoke (literally) when the owner bypassed the fuses (doh). otoh, the duetta's bass was much more even that the scintilla which exaggerated the bottom two octaves. the diva hit the sweet spot, they had it all maybe because they're three way or the increased height, larger panel area whatever...you're lucky they truly are speakers for life.

Yes those where the good old days, the real Classé's the DR-3B & DR-3VHC Dave Reich was the brains behind Classé's pure class A amplifiers they where his baby's, i owned them for 15 years, ALL with Acoustat speakers 1+1s - 2+2s - Spectra 22s - Spectra 33s.

 

[GaryProtein]

Too bad Philip Chance hasn't posted lately because it would be cool to see his tripled up KLH9s!

MYLES

Do you mean these?

 

[microstrip]

(...) The big ARC D-250s were a high point in ARC history I think (and so does at least one senior employee at ARC who still uses them). I'm sure there are some very fine big SS amps out there these days, but I see no reason to change (until tube replacement time)

The D-250s were great amplifiers - they looked impressive with the big fans, something much more clever than the current small fans. Do you know what servo refers to in your version? I only remember the MK2.

 

[Brian Beck]

Do you know what servo refers to in your version? I only remember the MK2.

Yes, The "Servo" or "S" designation in this instance refers to DC feedback applied around the front-end tube stages to keep the push-pull (or differential, if you prefer) DC operating points of these triodes in balance. It did not have anything to do with the output stages. Bill Johnson wisely wanted to avoid coupling caps as much as possible, so the first several stages are directly coupled one-to-the-next. This is unusual, and it forced the requirement for several regulated DC supplies, as the voltages cascaded higher and higher. There are 11 secondary windings on the power transformer as a result. Any DC offset from an early-stage tube would be amplified and could throw off the DC balance of the last driver stage, despite adjustment pots being provided. Even with the adjustment capability, one couldn't reasonably expect tube rollers to do this at home, and there would be aging effects which would throw off the DC balance eventually, increasing distortion a bit. So, as a kind of a patch, and presumably in response to dealer feedback, Johnson added little "daughter' PC cards onto the large rear PC card. These cards added the slow servo feedback from the last DC stages back to the first, keeping all the DC voltages right where they need to be despite aging and tube changes. As was typical with Johnson, this was well designed and executed and probably has virtually no effect on the sound since it works below 1 Hertz or so only, and since it continued to enable the advantages of DC-coupled approach. This was the final tweak to the Mk II version, to the best of my knowledge.

 

[LL21]

From one of the apogee legacy sites:

1982 The Full Range also known as "The Apogee" is the first full ribbon speaker released
1985 The legendary Scintilla is released to critical acclaim around the world
1986 Release of the original Duetta, a smaller and more importantly easier to drive Apogee
1987 Release of the Caliper, the smallest Apogee so far, and the revised Duetta II
1988 The Diva, Apogees second 3 way with a true ribbon tweeter enters production, late 1988 saw the release of Duetta Signature which came to be Apogees most popular speaker
1989 The revised Caliper Signature is released
1990 Apogees smallest and cheapest speaker the Stage is released, the first with etched ribbon components
1991 The Centaurus range, Centaur Minor, Centaur and Centaur Major are released, Apogees first hybrid range ribbon/cone speakers
1992 Release of the Grand series, Mini Grand, Studio Grand, and Grand the companies statement speaker
1994 The Slant range, replacement range for the Centaurus are released
1998 Home theatre LCR (Perseus), Ribbon Monitor, Column and In-wall speakers released, ADS Technology Inc purchase Apogee
1999 ADS closes Apogee Acoustics as it is considered not commercially viable, leaving owners without spares support, Matt Carnicelli starts the Apogee Acoustics Users Group

Got it! Thank you...that helps.

 

[MylesBAstor]

MYLES

Do you mean these?

Think so.

 

[mep]

Driven by three Marantz Model 9 amps no less.

 

[rbbert]

Ordered these today for delivery in a couple of weeks. can't wait!

http://acousticzen.com/crescendo.html
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue46/crescendo.htm
http://www.acousticzen.com/Resources/Crescendo speaker Review TAS.pdf

 

[NorthStar]

Ordered these today for delivery in a couple of weeks. can't wait!

http://www.acousticzen.com/crescendo.htm
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue46/crescendo.htm
http://www.acousticzen.com/Resources/Crescendo speaker Review TAS.pdf

The first link doesn't work.

About this: acousticzen.com/crescendo

 

[rbbert]

fixed

 

[GaryProtein]

I found a youtube of those triple KLH 9's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=zSs2Dpzu0Sw

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Ordered these today for delivery in a couple of weeks. can't wait!

http://acousticzen.com/crescendo.html
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue46/crescendo.htm
http://www.acousticzen.com/Resources/Crescendo speaker Review TAS.pdf

Congratulations Robert! They look beautiful and those reviews were certainly glowing. What are your current speakers and why the change?

 

[Peter Breuninger]

They are beautiful looking and sounding loudspeakers...

 

[rbbert]

Congratulations Robert! They look beautiful and those reviews were certainly glowing. What are your current speakers and why the change?

I'll post more with pictures after installation. I'm operating under the philosophy that if it sounds good at shows it should sound at least as good in my listening room, and it's been my favorite speaker under $30k at the last two RAMF's. I'd like to have had a better chance to audition the Magnepan 20.7, but they cost more than what Robert Lee is charging me and I would have had to fly to Minnesota to hear them. They would have to be much better than the 3.7's to be worth it, and frankly even owners don't seem to make that claim.

 

[MrAcoustat]

I'll post more with pictures after installation. I'm operating under the philosophy that if it sounds good at shows it should sound at least as good in my listening room, and it's been my favorite speaker under $30k at the last two RAMF's. I'd like to have had a better chance to audition the Magnepan 20.7, but they cost more than what Robert Lee is charging me and I would have had to fly to Minnesota to hear them. They would have to be much better than the 3.7's to be worth it, and frankly even owners don't seem to make that claim.

Magnepan 20.7 NEW retail price $13,850.00 there is no box speaker that come's close for the SAME price, i am not saying that the Acoustic Zen Crescendo is not a good speaker, i am simply saying that dollar for dollar a full range panel will always be SUPERIOR, but that's for ME.

PS: The 3.7 is a very good speaker BUT the 20.7 is in another league.