Sammy, I never said the KX-R was harsh. It's super smooth/clean. It gets fatiguing because the highs seem tipped up (i.e. an imbalance in my system). I could perhaps get around this by re-positioning speakers, but didn't have the time to try that when I auditioned it. If I found a used one I might buy it to give me that time - it's a great preamp for sure.
What preamp have I not tried?
- Thread starter MadFloyd
- Start date
Sammy, I never said the KX-R was harsh. It's super smooth/clean. It gets fatiguing because the highs seem tipped up (i.e. an imbalance in my system). I could perhaps get around this by re-positioning speakers, but didn't have the time to try that when I auditioned it. If I found a used one I might buy it to give me that time - it's a great preamp for sure.
Well I didn't get to listen to this combo for long and I did feel the bass tightened up, but I remember not being happy with the sound of horns - as if they were cardboard cutouts versus the more organic in-the-room sound of the Lamm. I would need more time with them to know for sure.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
I'm with Christian on this one as well. The equipment is not the problem.... it's your room and sitting position.
I have an idea. You know how they have those reality shows on TV- "Pimp my Ride," "Home & Garden Decorator Re-do's," etc.? We have a Tupperware(TM) party at Floyd's with appropriate expertise, materials, etc. and film it. Then, the lovely couple, who has been kept in a sound proof booth. blindfolded, listening to elevator music, gets to come in and see the 're-do.' At that point, Floyd's wife will be appearing on 'People's Court-Divorce Division,' but we will rest easy with the knowledge that Floyd's room has been nailed. Cue segue music to .....
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Heh, I'm not sure there is a 'problem' other than me being very picky. You can't tell where bass nodes are prevalent from looking at photos and I've already mentioned that there isn't any less bass when sitting forward. There *is* less bass with different electronics. In any case, it's about finding the right blend of sonic features that I care about (blend of tube and SS) and not just about bass.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Floyd.... for just the price of the XP-10, you could have had a top notch acoustician in there, made measurements and bought the necessary room treatments that blended in with the decor and be done with it. Every room has problems and yours is no exception.
Although Bruce,
there is still the situation with the electronics where it has been mentioned different products caused a subtle change to the bass.
So while the room would benefit from such a project, still left with the situation of the electronic-speaker behaviour separate to the room.
Easier to change the anomaly in system integration tbh as the Pass equipment showed the sound can be more than acceptable (not suggesting it has to be the Pass Labs gear just that it highlighted the synergy-integration consideration).
Just my take anyway.
Cheers
Orb
there is still the situation with the electronics where it has been mentioned different products caused a subtle change to the bass.
So while the room would benefit from such a project, still left with the situation of the electronic-speaker behaviour separate to the room.
Easier to change the anomaly in system integration tbh as the Pass equipment showed the sound can be more than acceptable (not suggesting it has to be the Pass Labs gear just that it highlighted the synergy-integration consideration).
Just my take anyway.
Cheers
Orb
MadFloyd has tried the creme de la creme of amplification and preamplification and isn't satisfied in numerous threads (and forums) He wants transparency and dynamics, but with a "flesh on the bone" midrange according to his original thread on this forum. that's why he needs new speakers as the Sashas are just too tough a load on amps to get what he wants imo. perhaps a move to a soft dome tweeter would be good as well.
but clearly with the legion of 10k+ preamps he has tried, the problem lies elsewhere. and he seems happy with Lamm hybrid amps using all of those preamps.
i would also sweep the room and see what pops up, but he has done some work in that arena. but i don't think D'agostinos or Boulders or whatever new SS amp is tried will yield the answer.
In the OP's defense...preamps can be tough. I auditioned a number of them before I found the one I wanted. Perhaps inverting the problem might be helpful...i.e. what systems have you heard that captured the sound you are chasing and what preamps were they using?
I guess I agree with the statement that "preamps can be tough." I know I have been through more than my share of them. But I haven't been through as many top-shelf preamps as the OP has. I had the Atma-Sphere MP-3 dash whatever that had lots of the latest and greatest upgrades including the Teflon caps that I bought brand new. It was nothing more than a hum machine that wouldn't work with any single-ended amp even though I was told by Atma-Sphere that it would. I had the McIntosh C-2300 that I didn't care for either even though it was quiet and looked kind of cool if you are into garish mismatched lights and chrome. I would take the Yamaha C2a over either one of those preamps which I know is heresy. I bought the ARC LS-17 twice with the last time to hear with my VS115 amp which I thought would bring the best out of the LS-17. It sounded just like it did the first time and I dumped it again. I also owned a CAT Signature MKII (or whichever version dumped the 12AU7 tubes for 6922s which lowered the noise floor considerably). Not to mention my Counterpoint SA-5.1 that I had over $5k invested in that I took a beating on.
And now I have the Krell KBL that has been back to the factory and was repaired and recapped. I know the KBL has been thrown to the dustbin of yesteryear's preamps, but it is the best sounding preamp I have ever owned. I think this is still a very neutral preamp that tells you the truth about your upstream and downstream components. The KBL is so much better sounding than the LS-17 that it's enough to make you cry if you couldn't get all of your money back you paid. And thankfully I did get all of my money back both times. It's hard to believe that people will gladly hand over $2300 for an LS-17 and yet I have jokers who offered me $2500 for my VS115. The VS115 is a really, really good sounding tube amp and represents much greater value on so many levels than the LS-17. Go figure.
And now I have the Krell KBL that has been back to the factory and was repaired and recapped. I know the KBL has been thrown to the dustbin of yesteryear's preamps, but it is the best sounding preamp I have ever owned. I think this is still a very neutral preamp that tells you the truth about your upstream and downstream components. The KBL is so much better sounding than the LS-17 that it's enough to make you cry if you couldn't get all of your money back you paid. And thankfully I did get all of my money back both times. It's hard to believe that people will gladly hand over $2300 for an LS-17 and yet I have jokers who offered me $2500 for my VS115. The VS115 is a really, really good sounding tube amp and represents much greater value on so many levels than the LS-17. Go figure.
It just occurred to me that despite having M1.2s and M2.2s for many years and using them with everything from monitors, planars, floorstanders of the OPs type and large format loudspeakers, I never suggested to try different tubes with them! Funny since this is what I've been doing pretty much from the start!
Floyd, I use Telefunken CCa redtips when I want extreme linearity and spaciousness, Mullard CV2492s for a more meaty presentation and Valvo 7308s for a mix of these two tubes.
There's another thing. The Sashas are 4ohm nominal with a dip to 2ohms. The M1.2s will handle this easily in both the high impedance setting and the low impedance setting, however it will provide more power in the high impedance setting. This will make the sound fuller and consequently make the highs softer. Something just a bit of toe in can help with.
Hope these much less expensive tips can help you. I'm a Lamm distributor after all. It's my job to help you guys be happy even if I wasn't the one who sold them to you.
Floyd, I use Telefunken CCa redtips when I want extreme linearity and spaciousness, Mullard CV2492s for a more meaty presentation and Valvo 7308s for a mix of these two tubes.
There's another thing. The Sashas are 4ohm nominal with a dip to 2ohms. The M1.2s will handle this easily in both the high impedance setting and the low impedance setting, however it will provide more power in the high impedance setting. This will make the sound fuller and consequently make the highs softer. Something just a bit of toe in can help with.
Hope these much less expensive tips can help you. I'm a Lamm distributor after all. It's my job to help you guys be happy even if I wasn't the one who sold them to you.
Thanks, all.
Jack: I have been playing with tubes a fair bit. Recently tried a Mullard 6DJ8 ECC88 1964 pair Blackburn factory thinking it would be very rolled off but the highs were sweet and it had a lot of midrange presence; I liked it.
Btselect: I use a Shunyata V-ray II for power distribution/conditioning. I've been thinking I should bypass it and see how it sounds without it.
I spent the weekend at Paragon Sight & Sound demoing different equipment. Boy what a treat that was. Larry is a true gentlemen and the systems there sound wonderful. Especially loved Nick Doshi's electronics. My system sounded very dark compared to pretty much everything I heard there (speakers were all Wilson products, but electronics included Dan D'agostino's Momentums and some ARC products; not a fan of the latter).
Jack: I have been playing with tubes a fair bit. Recently tried a Mullard 6DJ8 ECC88 1964 pair Blackburn factory thinking it would be very rolled off but the highs were sweet and it had a lot of midrange presence; I liked it.
Btselect: I use a Shunyata V-ray II for power distribution/conditioning. I've been thinking I should bypass it and see how it sounds without it.
I spent the weekend at Paragon Sight & Sound demoing different equipment. Boy what a treat that was. Larry is a true gentlemen and the systems there sound wonderful. Especially loved Nick Doshi's electronics. My system sounded very dark compared to pretty much everything I heard there (speakers were all Wilson products, but electronics included Dan D'agostino's Momentums and some ARC products; not a fan of the latter).
It just occurred to me that despite having M1.2s and M2.2s for many years and using them with everything from monitors, planars, floorstanders of the OPs type and large format loudspeakers, I never suggested to try different tubes with them! Funny since this is what I've been doing pretty much from the start!
Floyd, I use Telefunken CCa redtips when I want extreme linearity and spaciousness, Mullard CV2492s for a more meaty presentation and Valvo 7308s for a mix of these two tubes.
There's another thing. The Sashas are 4ohm nominal with a dip to 2ohms. The M1.2s will handle this easily in both the high impedance setting and the low impedance setting, however it will provide more power in the high impedance setting. This will make the sound fuller and consequently make the highs softer. Something just a bit of toe in can help with.
Hope these much less expensive tips can help you. I'm a Lamm distributor after all. It's my job to help you guys be happy even if I wasn't the one who sold them to you.
Thanks again for these tips. I will try the high impedance setting and see it how it sounds!
Been using Nick's phono section as my reference for a while now
He's also coming out with a couple of new amps; maybe he'll have them their at RMAF. His gear sounded great last year at RMAF with the Sashas.Oh and Nick can configure the phono section as a tape preamp too. Think Bruce ordered it for his studio IIRC. Not sure they've come yet though.
Bruce B
WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
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