My impression of Tang is that he has few restrictions on options and a very open mind, a great combination in this hobby. I miss his contributions.
What should be my next cart and tonearm?
- Thread starter abeidrov
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My impression of Tang is that he has few restrictions on options and a very open mind, a great combination in this hobby. I miss his contributions.
With SAT and axiom you might be comparing two arms that are not on the natural axis. It is like comparing Devore orangutan to XVX or a magico. I much prefer the orangutan, but that does not make it the best speaker because it is better than a 500k speaker. There are other speakers on the natural axis that are better than orangutan. Same with 3012r. And with tonearms and carts it’s really about synergies instead of saying one tonearm is THE arm
He moved to Eurodyn not bionor. His Eurodyn videos weren’t good, and he has not been playing his system for a year now
Thanks for the reminder about Analog Magik.
I have the software. Have yet to crack it open and try however.
From my perspective, as an inveterate visitor to various forums, the popularity of various arms and carts seems to wax and wane. The 3012-R and the 4-Point seem like very known/proven quantities at this point, but I'd imagine they'll be in and out of favor like everything.
Another arm that seems to be making waves lately, especially since Fremer's very positive review, is the SUPATrac. The designer claims it will play fine with both high- and low-compliance carts alike. Grain of salt there, certainly, as not many have used or owned it yet, but I'm curious.
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By 'natural axis' do you mean something like 'lending itself to a natural sound'? If not that, what?
Yes, that’s possible. I never said the SME is the best arm in the world. It’s a great arm and some prefer it to other highly touted much more expensive arms. It is certainly on the natural sound side of things and has extraordinary bass quality.
As I understand it , unresolved issues with his Lamm equipment seems to have played its part also in his closing the audio room door behind him and walking away !
It is tubes and sockets, so not something that can’t be fixed. Neumann is broken. But he has vdh
I´m presently testing my rebuilt DaVa Reference with flat coils, 6r instead of 11 and lighter coil/higher output in Eugene Komissarow Harmony arm and it´s a fantastic combo
This arm is another product like DaVa was, to cause a stir in the highend market
This arm is another product like DaVa was, to cause a stir in the highend market
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I gather that was your view as Tang described something different:
Yesterday, David was teaching me how simple the setup could be with the 3012R. I had quite a few audio designers in my room tweaking things. But I must say Mr.Karmeli 30 kgs overweight worked hardest to extract every bit of sound. The first thing he did after listening to my system a few songs was to turn off my subs. Then, When he was working on my AtlasSL, he said “this is almost it.” And I should not have said “it has to be 100%” because he ended up spending another hour fine tuning VTA and I was very hungry for dinner. Now my AtlasSL is on the 3012R. Out of the three carts I have on AS2000, GFS, Opus, AtlasSL. The AtlasSL caught David’s attention most. When he first listened, it was on the Axiom. And of course he thinks it could sound better if put on 3012R. I also wanted to know what 3012R has to offer. So we moved the Atlas SL to the SME. Now I must admit I never heard the AtlasSL sounded better than I am hearing now. He made me write down all steps and related figures. Normally I would be saying things for someone to write but with this setup things he is the boss. Anyway, I want to say that. I have a few very expensive arms in my system. What I am hearing from Atlas/SME is wonderful. The SME only cost a fraction of the modern arms. David also made me use the regular phono cable that came with the 3012R so I don’t really need to pay extra for expensive cable. This is an excellent deal in my opinion. Today we will install another 3012R and put Opus on it. He didn’t like it when on SAT (I mean the whole SAT/Opus setup not blaming SAT.) and I want to prove him wrong about the Opus before he leaves Bangkok. We will also move the GFS to SAT and see if it sounds better on this modern arm. A lot of work for David. I just sit back put my feet on my glass table and listen..hehe
Wow, thank you for finding that old post. It’s a wonderful description. This is what I meant when I wrote that Tang seems to be unrestricted by budget and very open minded. He listens to available options and chooses what he thinks sounds best to him. He doesn’t care about pedigree or price or reputation and has no one to impress but himself.
He describes well the effort to which DDK goes to set up a cartridge properly. That the SME 3012R is even in the same company as the SAT or Axiom is quite something and that some may even prefer it says something.
The other factor when we have different subjective opinions is that not everyone has the same goal. Tang told me his music listening experience goal is a natural sound presentation and this may well explain why Bonzo and Tang had very different opinions of the Atlas SL/3012 R combination in Tang’s system. Just a possible explanation for the different opinions here.
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You quoted from July 2018. I visited him in October. After that he has agreed with me on the 3012r Lyra not sounding good including on the forum. Search enough and thee shall find.
And if you want to do such silly quotes, keep in mind I am being polite. And there is another guy named Rahul (whom Gian knows as he is a CH precision owner), who has tried 3012r with 4 carts next to his SAT and he found it utterly appalling. I am not surprised.
We don't. Tang did not have a good opinion of the SAT pairing with Lyra. Also, David never taught him to listen to classical, so not sure how he had natural sound experience. His first classical exposure and his collection of classical LPs began after I visited him. Till then the only one he played was that silly Hilary Hahn violin thingy. and listening to the claps before it.
Here is Tang's one quote for those that are not tribal sheep but actually understand natural sound, not just because someone has told them 3012r produces natural sound
"The Lyra (AtlasSL) Gian, Bonzo and I find most dynamic and energetic in our systems with the SAEC 506. I found AtlasSL sounded less Atlas-like when on 3012R."
Honestly I can't believe I am spending time against the two of you defending this resonating piece of metallic shite and its compatibility with one cart.
It was Tang's post and it said something different. Must have struck a nerve. Lots of hearsay.
BaaRamEwe.
Well, less Atlas-like might not be a bad thing. it’s all about synergy between arm and cartridge. There is now the Atlas lambda and some even preferred the one model down.
Tim, Ddk, and I all use different cartridges with our 3012Rs. I have no clue what you mean by compatibility with one cartridge. It also sounds, excellent with the Opus 1. As I say, it holds its own in very expensive, famous modern tone arm company, and some even prefer it. Impressive.
I posted Tang's post saying something different already. Must have struck a nerve if you two went back so many years and evaded a later post of his where he agreed with me. Maybe he learned something between the post you quoted and the one I did? I suggest you and Peter do too
so where did I say it did not sound good with Opus at Tang's? It sounded sh*t with Lyra at his, which the tribe came to defend, and he Gian and I separately agreed with that finding.
|doesn't matter. His system is broke and the 3012r is not playing any cart for the past year. Especially Neumann, which tracks at 6g and ruins the vinyl when 6g breaks on it.
I don’t know what listening to classical music has to do with natural sound. We all have natural sound experience when we listen to everything around us and instruments and voices. Tang is very open minded about audio. Didn’t David teach you about analog when you visited him the first time? We’ve all learned a lot from the guy.
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