What Tube Preamps Synergize Well with CH Precision?

[caesar]

I know many will be sold on the "CH is a System" thing. God Bless those people.

But for those who want to inject tube magic into their system, which tube preamps work great?

 

[Colt12]

VAC and McIntosh.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Welcome colt12 to wbf.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Mcintosh make excellent tube preamps at great prices.

 

[Golum]

What about altering the idea and inject tubes in the source (if using DAC at all) and keep the synergy pre/amp within the CHP family?

 

[andromedaaudio]

FWIW i never even heard them

From what i have read on this forum by expirienced listeners is that they have very little / no sound of their own which is a good thing
It means you can amplify the signal with the juice you want .
I think all the big names apply CAT ARC VTL VAC LAMM Zanden Conrad Johnson etc ...

Out of respect to the amp manufacturer , i think its never a bad idea to give the accompanying pre amp at least a try

Ps i always thought/ think Halcro power amps did that job very good as well / neutral amplification but they never got really popular for whatever reason.

 

[caesar]

From what i have read on this forum by expirienced listeners is that they have very little / no sound of their own which is a good thing

I think that's the subjective interpretation of individuals that like that type of sound.

I have friends with full CH systems and they think it's the true path for sonic bliss, and I think it's absolutely wonderful that after 30 years of the journey they found something that gives them joy.

I also have friends that dropped 6 figures on it, but after listening to all of their recordings through the system, it sounds too SS too them, and they listen to a high efficiency system with Jadis 845 , while looking at the pretty boxes just sitting there...

For me personally, I also find it too lean and SS sounding, other than on warmest speakers... hence the question.

 

[andromedaaudio]

also have friends that dropped 6 figures on it, but after listening to all of their recordings through the system, it sounds too SS too them, and they listen to a high efficiency system with Jadis 845 , while looking at the pretty boxes just sitting there...

They must stop reading the mags then .
You as an advertisement expert know the deal

 

[andromedaaudio]

I have friends with full CH systems and they think it's the true path for sonic bliss, and I think it's absolutely wonderful that after 30 years of the journey they found something that gives them joy.

Thats a good thing .
As far as i read on the forum Jack is now running a CH system so is Gian , both had a all tubes system before that, if im not mistaken

 

[Elliot G.]

I know many will be sold on the "CH is a System" thing. God Bless those people.

But for those who want to inject tube magic into their system, which tube preamps work great?

Damn Caesar aren't you tired yet of the same old BS. The arrogance of thinking that you know more than the designers and more than those who did what to them was the correct thing/right thing or maybe the best thing is just not good enough for it has to "have a tube in it"
What a dinosaur! Evolution leads to revolution and what once was great is now in the past.

 

[MadFloyd]

I think that's the subjective interpretation of individuals that like that type of sound.

I have friends with full CH systems and they think it's the true path for sonic bliss, and I think it's absolutely wonderful that after 30 years of the journey they found something that gives them joy.

I also have friends that dropped 6 figures on it, but after listening to all of their recordings through the system, it sounds too SS too them, and they listen to a high efficiency system with Jadis 845 , while looking at the pretty boxes just sitting there...

For me personally, I also find it too lean and SS sounding, other than on warmest speakers... hence the question.

Then why are you asking this at all? If you don't care for the CH sound, why would you be interested in how it pairs up with another brand?

I totally get that you like tubes and there's nothing wrong with that. But this post just comes across as an opportunity to stir up the pot, as if you really wanted to start a thread titled "I can't believe people actually LIKE CH Precision".

 

[gian60]

I always loved tubes.

Since 1978 i had

ARC D90,D250,SP 8,10,11,
Hal amp Japan preamp
Jadis pre 200 and amp Ja 30,Ja 80,Ja 200,Ja 500
Michelson & Austin TVA1
Klimo mono otl
Panthere otl
Canterpoint SA4
ANJ M10 and amp Neiro,Neiro Silver,Baransu,Ongaku,Gakuon
Kondo M7, GE1, 2 Souga
Yamamura pre and amp mono with external power supply 8 stack 320 kg,amp push pull 211
Audiotekne all the top models,old production and new production
Sakuma,only tried at home
Shindo pre Catherine and Petrus and amp Pavillon Rouge,WE 300B Limited and Shinonia
Mactone M8V otl mono
Tried at home Viva pre with power supply and amp New Aurora
Vintage MC 240, MC 30,MC 75,Radford sta 15,Quad II,Leak TL 12 plus mono,Rogers,Marantz 8
Other many listened in friend home like Convergent and others

After tried at home and bought CH end of 2015,i forgot all these tube amp and i will live always with CH,hoping one day to buy L 10 line

Tube i like only old M10,Kageki,Shinri and new Souga and M 1000

 

[LL21]

Hi Gian,

That is as definitive a list of high end super-tube-amps as I have ever read under one name! Your commitment to CH specifically as someone who loves tubes is something I find consistent also with Arnie of Texas who was an enormous fan of VTL Ref 7.5III preamp and dual Siegfried Monos, as well as JackD201 who remains a big fan of Lamm tubes...and yet all of you have moved across happily to CH, espousing their virtues in the language of tube people. Very impressive.

I suppose you could say I myself am someone who found much to like about tubes in CJ, Zanden (and also tried Shindo, ARC seriously) and also found some of the latest, most state of the art thinking of solid state design to be remarkably organic, pure but also now with power and super silence. I look forward to hearing CH myself. Enjoy!

 

[Elliot G.]

IMO CH is a product that works incredibly well as a system, as it was designed to be. This does hold true for most high end companies as if you want to hear what their gear was designed to sound like then I believe listen to it as it was intended. This does not mean you can't mix and match but mix and match usually leads to being dissatisfied . I don't say this lightly it is my experience over 40 plus years. Products that are designed to be used together , work properly and will show the end result of the designs. CH is a product that I feel really strongly with this as I have had three clients buy the amps and run their digital straight through and a few others that mixed some other preamp and ALL of them within one year of buying the amp tried and PURCHASED a CH preamp. It just completes the system.
If the amp and preamp you have doesn't sound good together it should be telling you something. A word to the wise!

 

[KeithR]

Can anyone compare Dartzeel to CH for me? I know MadFloyd has owned both brands but the Dart amp wasn’t enough juice for his speakers.

 

[marty]

What about altering the idea and inject tubes in the source (if using DAC at all) and keep the synergy pre/amp within the CHP family?

Hello Lampizator

 

[LL21]

IMO CH is a product that works incredibly well as a system, as it was designed to be. This does hold true for most high end companies as if you want to hear what their gear was designed to sound like then I believe listen to it as it was intended. This does not mean you can't mix and match but mix and match usually leads to being dissatisfied . I don't say this lightly it is my experience over 40 plus years. Products that are designed to be used together , work properly and will show the end result of the designs. CH is a product that I feel really strongly with this as I have had three clients buy the amps and run their digital straight through and a few others that mixed some other preamp and ALL of them within one year of buying the amp tried and PURCHASED a CH preamp. It just completes the system.
If the amp and preamp you have doesn't sound good together it should be telling you something. A word to the wise!

A very interesting point and one that more than a few have made: Microstrip, and our honourable hosts Ron and Steve among many others no doubt. For me, 20 years ago I started out with CJ preamp and amp as my first serious set of separates...both excellent but even at that time not near the pinnacle of what CJ was about. And I took what I learned from that great experience...and after 2 years of searching for all-out powerful tubes as chronicled in Audiogon...I found myself with CJ preamps and Gryphon Class A SS for 11 consecutive years.

And in fact, just yesterday, the 3rd WBF member asked about my [excellent] experience with them, in spite of the foibles of buying second hand which on 14-year old amps was not always the best experience.

Now for the first time in 11 years, and only the second time EVER, I am listening to the musical vision of 1 designer in amplification. Fortunately, he is both talented and utterly committed to the ends of extremes to design his work...and that 2 legged stool has found the 3rd leg which is really, really big supporters of his vision (Audio Exotics and Absolute Sounds...East and West if you will...covering 2 major markets). And I have to say, there is something special about a designer who is ambidextrous in the design of both preamp and amp (not all designers are, in my experience) that you really can appreciate the seamlessness of his vision being brought into real sound and music.

Coming back to your point, I am still only just getting to know the Robert Koda sound, but it truly is special...and I have to say after a year of owning only the preamp...I have a FAR greater appreciation for what Robert Koch envisions as Robert Koda sound AFTER combining his legendary preamp...see Alan Sircom's June 2021 review ...with the new Robert Koda K160 monos.

 

[Elliot G.]

A very interesting point and one that more than a few have made: Microstrip, and our honourable hosts Ron and Steve among many others no doubt. For me, 20 years ago I started out with CJ preamp and amp as my first serious set of separates...both excellent but even at that time not near the pinnacle of what CJ was about. And I took what I learned from that great experience...and after 2 years of searching for all-out powerful tubes as chronicled in Audiogon...I found myself with CJ preamps and Gryphon Class A SS for 11 consecutive years.

And in fact, just yesterday, the 3rd WBF member asked about my [excellent] experience with them, in spite of the foibles of buying second hand which on 14-year old amps was not always the best experience.

Now for the first time in 11 years, and only the second time EVER, I am listening to the musical vision of 1 designer in amplification. Fortunately, he is both talented and utterly committed to the ends of extremes to design his work...and that 2 legged stool has found the 3rd leg which is really, really big supporters of his vision (Audio Exotics and Absolute Sounds...East and West if you will...covering 2 major markets). And I have to say, there is something special about a designer who is ambidextrous in the design of both preamp and amp (not all designers are, in my experience) that you really can appreciate the seamlessness of his vision being brought into real sound and music.

Coming back to your point, I am still only just getting to know the Robert Koda sound, but it truly is special...and I have to say after a year of owning only the preamp...I have a FAR greater appreciation for what Robert Koch envisions as Robert Koda sound AFTER combining his legendary preamp...see Alan Sircom's June 2021 review View attachment 82558...with the new Robert Koda K160 monos.

what was true 20 years ago is not necessarily true now. I agree in the 70's and 80's this may not have been the way I did it either but it is the way I would suggest one start with now. You can always do whatever you like but I think way to many audio consumers think they know better than the designer or design team that built the gear.

 

[Elliot G.]

A very interesting point and one that more than a few have made: Microstrip, and our honourable hosts Ron and Steve among many others no doubt. For me, 20 years ago I started out with CJ preamp and amp as my first serious set of separates...both excellent but even at that time not near the pinnacle of what CJ was about. And I took what I learned from that great experience...and after 2 years of searching for all-out powerful tubes as chronicled in Audiogon...I found myself with CJ preamps and Gryphon Class A SS for 11 consecutive years.

And in fact, just yesterday, the 3rd WBF member asked about my [excellent] experience with them, in spite of the foibles of buying second hand which on 14-year old amps was not always the best experience.

Now for the first time in 11 years, and only the second time EVER, I am listening to the musical vision of 1 designer in amplification. Fortunately, he is both talented and utterly committed to the ends of extremes to design his work...and that 2 legged stool has found the 3rd leg which is really, really big supporters of his vision (Audio Exotics and Absolute Sounds...East and West if you will...covering 2 major markets). And I have to say, there is something special about a designer who is ambidextrous in the design of both preamp and amp (not all designers are, in my experience) that you really can appreciate the seamlessness of his vision being brought into real sound and music.

Coming back to your point, I am still only just getting to know the Robert Koda sound, but it truly is special...and I have to say after a year of owning only the preamp...I have a FAR greater appreciation for what Robert Koch envisions as Robert Koda sound AFTER combining his legendary preamp...see Alan Sircom's June 2021 review View attachment 82558...with the new Robert Koda K160 monos.

I have not heard Robert's gear as there aren't any places in my neck of the woods that have it. I did speak to him a few times via email and we had a very cordial conversation as I was interested in discussing US representation.

 

[LL21]

what was true 20 years ago is not necessarily true now. I agree in the 70's and 80's this may not have been the way I did it either but it is the way I would suggest one start with now. You can always do whatever you like but I think way to many audio consumers think they know better than the designer or design team that built the gear.

Well, I think that there are still some designs whose work on preamplification or main power amplification is of differing quality. And as a result, I have found in those circumstances that careful combinations can prove more appealing. I would hesitate to say 'better' other than in the self-evident personal sense. But I avoid the term nevertheless.

I found [certain] Class A Solid State designs and characteristics to have an appeal to me that I have yet to ever want to give up. However, I cannot say the same about the preamp designs of all great Class A Solid State designers. Interestingly, I never got a chance to hear the preamps of Gryphon so I am not referring to those. However, I have heard other Class A SS designers' work in their preamps and not necessarily found those combinations to my liking...somehow finding more appeal in the amp than preamp.

It is not that I felt I had something to 'criticize' about the preamp design, as much as I found more to compliment of OTHER preamp designs...and in combining them with the amplification, I preferred the end result.

That said, I still come back to the excellent point you made, which is that I am GREATLY enjoying listening to the singular, cohesive amplification design of one man who is truly talented and utterly committed to his artform. And it has been a learning experience for me where I remain on that path as I get to know the set up.