WHY are you here in this forum?

[terryj]

What is it that fuels your participation in audio forums?

Here is a line from a recent post from silviajulietta

My componets in my audio system are the same for more than 10 years ( lot more ) and today I'm not thinking to change anything yet. I don't touch easyly my system , IMHO it has a great and almost unique equilibrum.

Personally, my idea of audio hell is to find myself never satisfied with what I have, leading to some desire on some level to be on the lookout for an upgrade.

I am soooooo close to that point now I am starting to ask myself 'why am I still on forums?' I have noticed that I rarely post anymore on any of the usual haunts, tho (out of habit more than anything else I guess) I still check in and read the latest posts.

I spose I have gone thru some sort of cycle. When I first got onto forums I wanted to learn, and I did. then that became 'give back what I had learned to others', kind of a repayment if you will.

Now?? I am not sure where I am at, there is very little left for me to learn (unless I wanted, for example, to get into the arcane and technical side of-say-jitter and digital reproduction) but even then, it would be more on a theoretical level rather than any practical level...I would still be 'stuck' with what ever products were on the market wouldn't I.

And, let's be honest here, most audio forums would be inhabited by audiophiles. Naturally. I strongly doubt there would be anything substantive to learn from 'following normal audiophile precepts', progress will not be made from 'new cables' or from 'new discoveries in physics, strangely only ever applicable in audio'.

So whilst it may sound very arrogant that 'there is not much more to learn' I mean that in a practical sense, given that I want to reach an end point of satisfaction, no longer 'listen to the system and wonder how I can better it', reach the point of enjoyment of music exclusively.

It is, after all, the only reason we attempt to have as good a system as we can.

Yet, whilst my idea of audio hell is the constant striving, I do get the idea that that is THE source of enjoyment for many, and I am not belittling it at all simply because it is not my goal. We all enjoy our hobbies in different ways.

So, I used forums to learn, made a LOT of very close friends along the way for which I am very grateful indeed, but am reaching the point of asking why I continue...the very act of discussing audio reproduction can only tend to direct attention away from the music and onto the system, completely counter to where I want to end up.

Can the two co-exist? Is it possible when relaxing by listening to music we can listen to the music without any attention whatsoever on the system if in between times we discuss the reproduction??

I'm beginning to think I cannot, are you able to?

What is it that YOU gain from forums??

 

[Ron Party]

Terry, you just need to spend more time in my section of the forum - the music forums.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Terry, you just need to spend more time in my section of the forum - the music forums.

I almost always enter the forums through the "What's New" section. And judging from that, there is almost no activity in the music forums. Am I missing something?

Tim

 

[DWR]

I'm with you Ron, I look more to the music threads on all of the audio forums, and like P says they are the least visited, I guess that says a lot about all the people that claim its all about the music doesn't it!

 

[terryj]

ron, one of my last purchases was jesse cook from, I presume, your section of the forum!

and I always check something referenced in a standard thread (use grooveshark for that btw).

So, is it simply natural that by constantly referencing gear we will always, to a greater or lesser degree, be thinking about The Sound rather than the music?

By going cold turkey on thinking about the system, is there a lag before you get to only listening to music? One of the most effective ways to do that I think is when you listen to something new, hopefully it will grab you enough that you are immersed in it...the worst is our standard test discs haha.

A bit pavlovian, put on our test disc and we must therefore be evaluating a system.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

There is a certain amount of fun in exchanging ideas and debating point of views in the better fora. This one in is one of hem. We socialize in some ways, even to the point of making real friends. I know I have thru another forum where I met some people nowon this WBF forum and some of them have become friends.
One may learn a thing or two in such forums, Good information gathered through honest exchange can lead in some way to extract more from our systems .. if we open our minds to new ideas.. I know I moved from a cable believer to a cable non-believer through participation to such fora, in this very case AVS.
Now concerning the music, it is a sad thing that more people don't spend a little more time in the music section. I do and despite the relative scarcity of posts there there were some interesting albums which I have been listening. There are of of course some pieces that do not strike my fancy, Tubular Bells for one, good , seminal? hardly (Sorry John it won't get to the level of Mozart and Beethoven, not on this planet anyway .. )... Some other did like the Havanaise from Camille Saint Saens which led to the discovery of his concerto # 2 for piano and Orchestra a superb piece of Western Classical Music...
I believe that many here started with a love of music but fell under the spell of the gear .. My advice: Don't forget what led you to the gears .. It (Music) is so much more worthwhile ...

 

[audioguy]

+1 on the Jessie Cook music. Great stuff. Someone posted on a number of guitar CD's (in the same thread that Jessie Cook was posted) and I bought them all.

What was great was that I could sample the music based on the posts so the purchase decision was easy.

It is all about the music but you need equipment to listen to it. I have no interest in any new hardware but still read the various threads to just keep up.

The threads on rooms, acoustics, room treatment, etc are of the most interest to me after the music threads.

 

[Ron Party]

If you like Jesse Cook, you must check out Ottmar Liebert.

 

[JackD201]

I'm a certified OL fan. Viva with Luna Negra is my favorite album of his. I discovered him by pure chance from a sedate cut used in one of the Cafe Del Mar selections as I was looking for some beach vacation music.

Ooops. I got carried away.

I like seeing different points of view and trying to put myself in other people's shoes. I think it is a way to try and broaden my own perspectives. Honestly, I don't like debating much these days. I had way too much of that on the plenary floor in my past life as a legislator. Dealing with over 200 alpha types day in and day out taught me to try my best to not be judgmental. There's always some nugget to be picked up no matter how bad a bill is conceived and written. I find it is the same for anything including audio. When I do join in on debates usually I'm just horsing around but once in a while, like anyone I guess, my buttons get pushed and a fault of mine is that I tend to push back a bit too hard.

I've made lots of friends on forums and for me that is the best part. I have no Facebook, Friendster or Twitter accounts but join forums on my hobbies. Cars, Audio, amateur photography and Golf. I'm just as much a tweaker with my sticks as I am with audio. Funny thing is I know I should be tweaking my swing not my gear I fall into the same trap in audio too!!!!!! Hahahahahaha!

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

It is a really good question. I would have to go through a major lifestyle shift (a lot more space or a lot less wife ) to be in a position to significantly upgrade my system. And even given a large listening room and the ability to play at volume any time i wish, I would never go back to passive speakers and component systems. The stuff that is discussed here is, for the most part, stuff I spent years pursuing and playing with. I've abandoned that pursuit. Yet here I am.

P

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

First of all...+1 on the Ottmar Liebert suggestion Ron. And Franz...I love Mozart, Beethoven and them other groovy cats from way back when. In fact, I find myself reaching back in time with a lot of my music interst lately. I can't seem to get enough of Ol' Blue Eyes, Tony Bennett and Nat King Cole.

My main purpose in life on the audio side is to listen to music. I think I am one of the very few audiophiles who places music far and way above everything else. As such I frequent the Music section more than anything else, and try to contribute when I have something that I feel I should share. I am also here to learn, and I have immensely already, but many of the threads go way beyond my comprehension and level of interest. I have to laugh and shake my head at times at some of the moot points being discussed and/or debated. However, those threads need to exist as obviously there is a lot of passion and interest on the gear side of things.

I am far from owning the type of system that I want...hell, I'm using an AVR as my main amp (don't shoot me), but I enjoy my music as much as (if not more) than the next guy...and that is what its all about for me. I have never looked down at the equipment I've owned, and I enjoy my Yamaha AVR as much as I did my McIntosh, Arcam, Pioneer, Altec Lansing Stonehenge and Heresy set-up from decades past.

Regarding other forums, I gave up on AVS, AudioKharma and Audioholics long ago and only participate here and on Blu-ray.com. The reason is a simple one for me....these two fori are respectful of other posters and I never have to worry about getting a tongue-lashing if something I wrote doesn't meet in agreement. So I'll be here for a while longer!

Lastly, my participation over at Blu-ray.com has allowed me to meet some wonderful people, some of whom I've met in person. In fact, 2 of the guys are coming to my place next Saturday to listen to some vinyl and enjoying a beverage or two. I hope one day I have that same opportunity here.

I think I need more coffee! Later guys!

John

 

[naturephoto1]

First of all...+1 on the Ottmar Liebert suggestion Ron. And Franz...I love Mozart, Beethoven and them other groovy cats from way back when. In fact, I find myself reaching back in time with a lot of my music interst lately. I can't seem to get enough of Ol' Blue Eyes, Tony Bennett and Nat King Cole.

My main purpose in life on the audio side is to listen to music. I think I am one of the very few audiophiles who places music far and way above everything else. As such I frequent the Music section more than anything else, and try to contribute when I have something that I feel I should share. I am also here to learn, and I have immensely already, but many of the threads go way beyond my comprehension and level of interest. I have to laugh and shake my head at times at some of the moot points being discussed and/or debated. However, those threads need to exist as obviously there is a lot of passion and interest on the gear side of things.

I am far from owning the type of system that I want...hell, I'm using an AVR as my main amp (don't shoot me), but I enjoy my music as much as (if not more) than the next guy...and that is what its all about for me. I have never looked own at the equipment I've owned, and I enjoy my Yamaha AVR as much as I did my McIntosh, Arcam, Pioneer, Altec Lansing Stonehenge and Heresy set-up from decades past.

Regarding other forums, I gave up on AVS, AudioKharma and Audioholics long ago and only participate here and on Blu-ray.com. The reason is a simple one for me....these two fori are respectful of other posters and I never have to worry about getting a tongue-lashing if something I wrote doesn't meet in agreement. So I'll be here for a while longer!

Lastly, my participation over at Blu-ray.com has allowed me to meet some wonderful people, some of whom I've met in person. In fact, 2 of the guys are coming to my place next Saturday to listen to some vinyl and enjoying a beverage or two. I hope one day I have that same opportunity here.

I think I need more coffee! Later guys!

John

John,

Not only that but you have dragged some of your friends from Blu-ray.com over here with you. Just kidding. John has been a great ambassador over at Blu-ray.com and has invited a number of members to join here and I very much appreciate John's invitation. And John, is my best friend at Blu-ray.com, so I was happy to follow his suggestion and his invitation.

Rich

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

John,

Not only that but you have dragged some of your friends from Blu-ray.com over here with you. Just kidding. John has been a great ambassador over at Blu-ray.com and has invited a number of members to join here and I very much appreciate John's invitation. And John, is my best friend at Blu-ray.com, so I was happy to follow his suggestion and his invitation.

Rich

Thank you so much for those kind words my good friend!! It's easy to be an ambassador when you're involved with a great group of people! I truly hope that WBF grows and flourishes as we have a great knowledgebase here and some really cool people! To quote MickieDees...."I'm Lovin' It!"

John

 

[Steve Williams]

If you like Jesse Cook, you must check out Ottmar Liebert.

Ron we had this conversation at a BAAS meeting several years at my house where I played a Jesse Cook cut from his Gravity Album and you pulled out an Ottmar Liebert Album

I must admit that my way into the forum each day is via the What's New button but I do agree with the music and our music fora. Having said that the mods here are IMO the ones who are introducing most of the recommend music. Through Frantz and JackD201 I have discovered some amazing World Music and as always through my friend Ron Party I have discovered most of all my new music in rock.

I too really like these fora and perhaps now is a chance to glean new ideas to revitalize them. I have also enjoyed associating all of the cover art with the albums mentioned

 

[Steve Williams]

These fora are IMO nothing more than social networks involving people who share the same passion. Notwithstanding however there always seems to be the opposing factions in always the same threads. The same debates struggle on and the same points are made ad infinitum. In spite of this, here at WBF we have put together an ongoing growth of new members and in a few short months have reached over 500 members and well over 21,000 posts. What I find most interesting is an ever growing membership that has now reached all over the world which also brings new ideas to the forum thus making for very interesting opinions. I always marvel at the true scientists in the field and the knowledge that they impart. Here at WBF we saw a need to grow a panel of experts in many different fields in the industry which has proved for me at least very educational. It is my hope that this part of the forum continues to grow. I am also entertaining new suggestions from members on a daily basis as to what they would like to see added. In fact we have a Forum Suggestion box which IMO isn't used enough.

So to terryj from down under, I appreciate your being here as you always tend tonstart sone very interesting thread such as this one. I do agree with your point that too much of these audiophile fora can distract from time spent listening to music. For me at least this has been a distraction as I find far less time to be listening to music by virtue of enormous time spent out my day, every day, trying to get this forum off and running. Thanks to all of you, this is gradually occurring.
When terry first joined he started a thread suggesting that all of us travel to hear other people's systems. For me, I have done exactly that. In fact over the years I have met some of my best friends through fora such as this. In fact about 8 years ago when over at AVS a bunch of us in either the subjectivist or objectivist camps were always flaming each other. Many of us lived in the SF Bay area and I suggested we put down the barbs and meet one Saturday afternoon at my house just to listen to music and get to know each other. Sixteen showed up that day and that is how our Bay Area Audio Society (BAAS) was formed. The members have grown over the years and I would go so far as saying that all BAAS members now belong to WBF.

Hopefully we can all meet at future events such as CES, CEDIA, RMAF etc on an annual basis. After all it is "all about the music"

On a more humbling note, in a separate thread I started reviewing The movie The Social Network which IMO is in the top 5 so far this years and should not be missed. Here we are at WBF priding ourselves on our growth and reaching 500 members in such a short time whereas in the movie he was getting 7000 members per hour and now has 500M members which equates to 1:14 people worldwide with the number of audiophiles world wide one can only infer that the origin of Facebook is what truly dreams are made of

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Ron we had this conversation at a BAAS meeting several years at my house where I played a Jesse Cook cut from his Gravity Album and you pulled out an Ottmar Liebert Album

I must admit that my way into the forum each day is via the What's New button but I do agree with the music and our music fora. Having said that the mods here are IMO the ones who are introducing most of the recommend music. Through Frantz and JackD201 I have discovered some amazing World Music and as always through my friend Ron Party I have discovered most of all my new music in rock.

I too really like these fora and perhaps now is a chance to glean new ideas to revitalize them. I have also enjoyed associating all of the cover art with the albums mentioned

Hmmm...cover art! Another reason why I enjoy vinyl as much as I do. Glancing at it while the vinyl is spinning somehow makes me feel like I have a connection that I wouldn't otherwise experience. Okay, call me strange!

John

 

[FrantzM]

Hmmm...cover art! Another reason why I enjoy vinyl as much as I do. Glancing at it while the vinyl is spinning somehow makes me feel like I have a connection that I wouldn't otherwise experience. Okay, call me strange!

John

Slight OT... I presently have all my music collection ripped to a NAS which will be backed-up on another RAID system later this month ... I am missing the Covers...CDs were never that good on cover arts but at least it existed... A virtual cover art doesn't seem to be the same thing... No tactile reality...

I like this forum. I don't have much time to frequent other fora so this one remains the one I go to ... and AVS once in a while where video-wise, they seem unmatched ...

@Steve

We need you to run this forum no doubt but do make sure of enjoying the music more, much more... That's what you were aiming at after all.. While the journey is fun, the end goal, Music, must never be forgotten

 

[Steve Williams]

Frantz

I agree 100% but the demands to date here at WBF seems to involve long days and decreased listening to music.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

I am far from owning the type of system that I want...hell, I'm using an AVR as my main amp (don't shoot me), but I enjoy my music as much as (if not more) than the next guy...and that is what its all about for me.

I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about the quality of that AVR receiver. Some friends of mine, who own a very good little British hifi company just acquired a Yamaha RX-V667 to test both their active and passive speakers' use in surround sound. Naturally, they wanted to test the Yamaha first. It tested very well in measurements and listening, from the preamp outs and the speaker terminals, both directly and through speakers, the characteristics of which they know very well, to say the least. Push the little blue "Pure Direct" button on the front and it does even better in stereo. I think the law of diminishing returns in audio begins much lower than most audiophiles imagine. A good, relatively inexpensive AV receiver is not perfect. It's not right up to the highest audiophile standards. But it comes a lot closer than most of us are comfortable admitting.

Tim

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about the quality of that AVR receiver. Some friends of mine, who own a very good little British hifi company just acquired a Yamaha RX-V667 to test both their active and passive speakers' use in surround sound. Naturally, they wanted to test the Yamaha first. It tested very well in measurements and listening, from the preamp outs and the speaker terminals, both directly and through speakers, the characteristics of which they know very well, to say the least. Push the little blue "Pure Direct" button on the front and it does even better in stereo. I think the law of diminishing returns in audio begins much lower than most audiophiles imagine. A good, relatively inexpensive AV receiver is not perfect. It's not right up to the highest audiophile standards. But it comes a lot closer than most of us are comfortable admitting.Tim

I think that rings very true Tim. My Yamaha HTR-6190B (Canadian-only model and cousin to the RX-V1800) sounds very pleasing to my ears in "Pure Direct" mode. For the record, my upgrade path down the line will consist of attaining an improvement for my source as I think I will gain a much better price/performance ratio. I'd like to play around with more cartridge choices, and I hope to secure a Dynavector 20X at some point this year. It'll make for a nice change to my Grado Reference Platinum and Sumiko Pearl.

John