prog rock… just for fossils…Wasn't the rock music as old or older than the fusion Jazz?? Classic rock and prog rock could be considered "old man" music these days
lol
Why do I hate jazz ??
- Thread starter Jean de la croix
- Start date
lol
My uncle Col (a scary looking jazz legend here) is recognised as the driving innovator of jazz electronic keyboard in Australia (especially the Hammond B3… OMG what an awesome sound to grow up with) he was brilliant, so I got the whole proper full jazz initiation from age 4… probably accounts for the Jimmy Smith fan in me.There probably is something to this. I didn't particularly enjoy jazz until I turned 18 and rock jazz helped a lot with the transition. As did Zappa
The classical thing started in preschool where we had a teacher that played classical records regularly in class, really loved that… I’m forever thankful. Figure it is definitely part nature/part nurture for me for sure.
We owe it to those around us to at least try. One of my design students is an oboist and we were talking in class today about her performing tomorrow night in Elgar’s Enigma down in Sydney and how fabulous is Barbirolli’s Enigma and how the Nimrod can just leave you tearfully moved and completely elevated… ahhh music.. the connective alpha and omega of all creation and (for me) the best language ever…
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Music is rhythm/swing, melody and harmony.
The rhythm/swing is intuitive, you want to dance, move your body.
The melody is intuitive, you want to sing, whistle.
Harmony, different sounds played together, is not intuitive.
Jazz is a harmonic structure played with all notes available as improvisation.
You cannot whistle an improvisation.
You cannot dance an improvisation.
You must hear a connection between the improvisation and the harmonic structure, otherwise the sound doesn't make sense to you.
The rhythm/swing is intuitive, you want to dance, move your body.
The melody is intuitive, you want to sing, whistle.
Harmony, different sounds played together, is not intuitive.
Jazz is a harmonic structure played with all notes available as improvisation.
You cannot whistle an improvisation.
You cannot dance an improvisation.
You must hear a connection between the improvisation and the harmonic structure, otherwise the sound doesn't make sense to you.
FWIW, I love classical music and jazz, and my life would be considerably poorer if I was deprived of the ability to listen to them. I avoid all recent music — I would not listen to Taylor Swift even if you paid me a million dollars to do so. I’d rather listen to Hildegard von Bingen, whose music transports me back to a thousand years ago when she composed her sublime pieces.
My neighbor relaxes by sitting on his porch and smoking a cigar while watching a ballgame. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him listen to any type of music.
We are all made differently. It comes down to the microstructure of our neural tissue. One little known fact is that our brains are all completely different in their microstructure. Our brains are not like an Apple MacBook Pro, where every copy is identical to every other down to the atomic level as they come off an assembly line. Our brains are the result of a self-organizing chemical reaction. The human genome can’t possibly code for the synaptic connections between the 100 billion neurons that each of us has in our heads. The overall high level structure is the same, but the low level connectivity is entirely different.
These differences in brain structure result in huge differences in our abilities. Mozart wrote his first symphony when he was 5. He was in London and his dad was recovering from a serious illness. He was forbidden to play the piano, so he instead composed a set of symphonies to pass the time. Not your usual 5 year old‘s way of passing the time. But then he had no access to social networks, video games or TV. Thank God for that.
My neighbor relaxes by sitting on his porch and smoking a cigar while watching a ballgame. I don’t think I’ve ever heard him listen to any type of music.
We are all made differently. It comes down to the microstructure of our neural tissue. One little known fact is that our brains are all completely different in their microstructure. Our brains are not like an Apple MacBook Pro, where every copy is identical to every other down to the atomic level as they come off an assembly line. Our brains are the result of a self-organizing chemical reaction. The human genome can’t possibly code for the synaptic connections between the 100 billion neurons that each of us has in our heads. The overall high level structure is the same, but the low level connectivity is entirely different.
These differences in brain structure result in huge differences in our abilities. Mozart wrote his first symphony when he was 5. He was in London and his dad was recovering from a serious illness. He was forbidden to play the piano, so he instead composed a set of symphonies to pass the time. Not your usual 5 year old‘s way of passing the time. But then he had no access to social networks, video games or TV. Thank God for that.
I tried to be as precise as possible with what I feel when I hear this music, that's all. I made it clear several times that this is just my personal opinion and that I wanted to understand why this kind of music triggers such an epidermal reaction in me. That's all, and if it was just a minor inconvenience for me, I wouldn't have bothered to look into it. I came here precisely to ask this question...
Interesting questions. For the first excerpt I have a lot of trouble, it's very old movies/cartoons and it makes me feel a bit blue. For the rhapsody in blue, it's typically something I don't like, Gershwin is not a composer I particularly like, but this beginning in clarinet glissando makes me climb the walls :').
Concerning the dissonant and more free classical music, it's very variable. I like composers like Penderecki or Ligetti, but often more to listen once than as background music. Ives I know less, there are interesting things but it is not a music I listen to much.
Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)
It's an interesting thought but I think that appreciating something is not only intellectual. For example, I hate cilantro, I just have a terrible feeling when I eat it, no matter how hard I try to understand it, my taste doesn't change. Ditto for jazz, I'll be able to find it interesting to study as an art form (which I did to some extent) without having any aesthetic pleasure in listening to it.
Casual Fan.
Regardless of the music genre there is something for you. For instance, when it comes to classical music. I am not a big fan.(Hate is a strong word.) But there are certain titles I really love.
If I were so inclined, I could put together a baker's dozen anyone could love.
Regardless of the music genre there is something for you. For instance, when it comes to classical music. I am not a big fan.(Hate is a strong word.) But there are certain titles I really love.
If I were so inclined, I could put together a baker's dozen anyone could love.
FYI: Article: Why Do We Love the Music We Love?
https://gizmodo.com/music-neuroscience-susan-rogers-book-1849801399
https://gizmodo.com/music-neuroscience-susan-rogers-book-1849801399
I can understand you not liking some Jazz songs but categorically hating a genre as broad as Jazz doesn’t make much sense. For example, I dislike a lot of country music because I am not a fan of “twangy “ singing and guitar playing but there are still some songs in the genre I like despite that. You didn’t comment on possible reasons I provided above. Care to comment?
I used to be indifferent to jazz, and now I listen to it all the time. Music has to speak to us, there is an emotional connection, but we can also learn to appreciate it over time, as we gain a better understanding of what the artist is communicating.
Jazz's golden age is long gone, and what is referred to often in the many "best jazz albums" list is a tiny fraction of the "genre" (started in the 1920s). Here is a random example of such a list: https://jazzfuel.com/best-jazz-albums/
I never listen to "Kind of Blue" or John Coltrane's "Love Supreme" (I prefer his earlier work); Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" and Keith Jarrett's "Koln Concert" bore me to death... These are all highly praised albums that we are "expected" to appreciate... Perhaps some day I will, but I don't lose sleep over it now, there is so much to listen to. Given the variety of music that is typically classified as "Jazz", there are bound to be some that will be to your taste, and from there you can expand your horizons!
One more note: over the years, many pages have been written about the difference between classical music and jazz, and critics' outlook have changed over the years.
There is a fascinating documentary on a meeting between Duke Ellington and Leonard Bernstein, which has been commented by the music scholar Anna Calenza here: https://ellington.se/ellington-meetings/ellington-2022/presentations/anna-celenza/
Ellington is obviously irritated by Bernstein's many clichés on jazz, and the opposition to "serious music". As Celenza explains, Bernstein new very little about jazz. Nowadays, the reverse attitude can sometimes be found where jazz is seen as a highly "intellectual" music.
Many jazz musicians studied and appreciated classical music. For example, here is what Coleman Hawkins (who only listened to classical music at home), had to say when asked by a reporter for advice to young musicians:
"If they think they are doing something new they ought to do what I do every day. I spend at least two hours every day listening to Johann Sebastian Bach, and man, it's all there. If they want to learn to improvise around a theme, which is the essence of jazz (adding blue notes), they should learn from the master. He never wastes a note, and he knows where every note is going and when to bring it back. Some of these cats go way out and forget where they began or what they started to do. Bach will clear it up for them".
Now listen to him, in this 1937 recording for example (his solo starts around 1:06), and you'll see what he means:
There's no Coleman Hawkins in that list of 100 best jazz albums, and there are many, many more missing, for you to discover
Jazz's golden age is long gone, and what is referred to often in the many "best jazz albums" list is a tiny fraction of the "genre" (started in the 1920s). Here is a random example of such a list: https://jazzfuel.com/best-jazz-albums/
I never listen to "Kind of Blue" or John Coltrane's "Love Supreme" (I prefer his earlier work); Dave Brubeck's "Time Out" and Keith Jarrett's "Koln Concert" bore me to death... These are all highly praised albums that we are "expected" to appreciate... Perhaps some day I will, but I don't lose sleep over it now, there is so much to listen to. Given the variety of music that is typically classified as "Jazz", there are bound to be some that will be to your taste, and from there you can expand your horizons!
One more note: over the years, many pages have been written about the difference between classical music and jazz, and critics' outlook have changed over the years.
There is a fascinating documentary on a meeting between Duke Ellington and Leonard Bernstein, which has been commented by the music scholar Anna Calenza here: https://ellington.se/ellington-meetings/ellington-2022/presentations/anna-celenza/
Ellington is obviously irritated by Bernstein's many clichés on jazz, and the opposition to "serious music". As Celenza explains, Bernstein new very little about jazz. Nowadays, the reverse attitude can sometimes be found where jazz is seen as a highly "intellectual" music.
Many jazz musicians studied and appreciated classical music. For example, here is what Coleman Hawkins (who only listened to classical music at home), had to say when asked by a reporter for advice to young musicians:
"If they think they are doing something new they ought to do what I do every day. I spend at least two hours every day listening to Johann Sebastian Bach, and man, it's all there. If they want to learn to improvise around a theme, which is the essence of jazz (adding blue notes), they should learn from the master. He never wastes a note, and he knows where every note is going and when to bring it back. Some of these cats go way out and forget where they began or what they started to do. Bach will clear it up for them".
Now listen to him, in this 1937 recording for example (his solo starts around 1:06), and you'll see what he means:
There's no Coleman Hawkins in that list of 100 best jazz albums, and there are many, many more missing, for you to discover
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My question to you would be, aside from Classical, what other genres do you like? How do you feel about Rock? Blues?I am well aware that this title here is a bit provocative and maybe even a bit inappropriate. I'm not trying to alienate the community, but I really want to understand what nobody has been able to explain to me yet...
When I say that, people always try to make me listen to jazz pieces to show me that it's not that I don't like them, it's that I don't know the right ones. But nothing helps. What is it about jazz that makes me appreciate classical music so much and jazz music or any "jazzy" piece so little? I should mention that the feeling I get from this music is the same for gospel, negro spiritual etc. Any ideas?
To illustrate a little, I was playing a video game and in a tavern there was this music (see below) that immediately horrified me. I don't know if it's really jazz, but there's this haunting and plaintive side that I find absolutely unbearable.
Thank you for your possible answers and please try to understand and explain rather than trying to convince me that I do like jazz (if you can!)
Then I'd ask how old you are, and what your musical background is. (What was playing in your house as a child? Or in the car when your parents drove you from place to place.)
Knowing that stuff would help get a better handle on why you feel the way you do about Jazz.
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