Why do people that own vintage gear think It's better than new gear
- Thread starter taters
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I'm no expert on vintage gear, but in general RtR tape decks are the best source I've experienced, vacuum tubes are still the best amplification devices, field coil or alnico the best motor for a driver and horns the best speaker technology.
If I was limited to working with these technologies I'm quite sure I could build something world class by today's standards.
I do think modern technology has made things easier... digital storage, Roon, etc for playback is hard to beat as far as ease and convenience. IMO it takes $10k+ to get a decent analog setup so I have to skip that for now. Most of the music I enjoy is on redbook CD, the player I have does an amazing job with it and is decent on native high res files. It up samples PCM to DSD and can make lower resolution material sound pretty good.
And as I said before it's much easier to get high quality, low distortion bass with modern woofers, DSP and class D amps. Unless you have the space and money for a bass horn or can use many large drivers per side vintage can't equal modern woofer designs. But on an overall cost-no-object level a bass horn is probably still the best technology...
I went to Myles' place to compare Ortofon A95 and Lyra Atlas (more on that later), and walked out totally amazed when he put on the Yarlung tape on his Technics R2R. Could easily visualize the performers hunched over furiously going at their violins and cellos with intensity. Superb.
"more on that later": When and where? I'd love to read more about the sound of his system. Thanks. Back on topic.
First vinyl, now tape. "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen!" (Darth Vader)
Bye, bye digital?
Give me a couple of days to write. Too much work and forumming and girlfriend management
First vinyl, now tape. "Everything is proceeding as I have foreseen!" (Darth Vader)
Bye, bye digital?
You will end up buying Lampi and Mooks one day, Ron.
bonzo, I'm so jealous of your world travels to hear great audio, I'm hearing David Oistrakh playing the tiniest violin between his thumb and forefinger.
I'm looking forward to your report.
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Being rather vintage myself and having gone through quite a number of set ups ( and upsets ) in my search NOT for the perfect reproduction of the recording venue, BUT to come as close as possible to the experience of live music, Dave's statement sums up this discussion of new and old for me.
You are in Boston Peter. If you want to listen to some different sounds, there is a guy with the analysis amphitryon near the South station, and you can easily go to N.Y/NJ to listen to Marty's system, the apogee in long island, Rhapsody, innovative, audio arts, Myles, and a bit way off, Christian. There will be more I am sure
Thanks for the suggestions, Bonzo. I have heard Christian's system, but I'd love to hear some more. There is a guy not far from me who has a vintage system:Altec horns, SP10MK3, tubes. Between Madfloyd, Al M. and ack, there is quite a wide range of sounds. I was planning a tour of the Pacific Northwest, Texas and then Jim Smith's system, but that trip has been put on hold. I do plan to visit Myles in NYC.
I don't follow. I count two Magico systems. MadFloyd has the Magico M Pros, Ack has Martin Logan, Al M. has Ref 3A monitors, Christian has Wilsons. Four extremely different sounding systems. Myles has Magicos, but I'm curious about his tape and tube electronics and vast record knowledge. Jim Smith has Tanoy. The systems in PNW and Texas aren't Magico. And it is not just about speakers. I'm curious about systems and rooms on a tour like this. I've always found it hard to isolate what one particular component is doing in an unfamiliar system.
I'm curious to hear more horns and panel systems, but also how they sound in certain system contexts. For my own system and room, panels and horns might be problematic given space and aesthetic requirements. We all have different tastes, but this thread is about Vintage gear and how it compares to contemporary gear.
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Peter,
As always, you make very logical points. It is impossible to evaluate a selected components in a system, the component one wants to evaluate needs to be inserted into a familiar system (preferably your own) to properly evaluate. I spent considerable time and effort getting a NOS SME 3012R and a spare arm board for my turntable to compare apples to apples with the Ikeda (3X more expensive) arm I was using. No comparison between these two arms to my ears, when I upgraded to the Acoustic Signature Ascona, I only needed one arm board.
After following Raul's monster MM thread on Audiogon, I started picking up vintage MM cartridges on eBay to see what all the fuss was about. I'm amazed by the pure listening pleasure one can achieve with vintage Shure V15 MK3, Signet and Grace cartridges. Throw in a new JICO SAS stylus and watch out!
So in summary, I believe that one can have 100% satisfaction with their analog chain using just vintage gear.
What do you consider vintage? Speakers from the 90's hold up well against a lot of the newer stuff. DSP and acoustics have also breathed life into speakers that have measured well initially in controlled situations. Put those back into controlled situations, you see the results.
Dacs....yeah, I agree, they just keep getting better! Horns have gotten better as well, but I've also heard old horn systems integrated into modern DSP based systems (there's that term again) sound spectacular!
Question - do any of you think that many people are getting into the science of sound? Is this breathing life into old gear and bringing down the price of well performing new gear (al la Elac, Spatial Audio and others)?
Dacs....yeah, I agree, they just keep getting better! Horns have gotten better as well, but I've also heard old horn systems integrated into modern DSP based systems (there's that term again) sound spectacular!
Question - do any of you think that many people are getting into the science of sound? Is this breathing life into old gear and bringing down the price of well performing new gear (al la Elac, Spatial Audio and others)?
I dabbled for a year or so in those vintage MM cartridges too recommended in that Audiogon thread.
enjoyable....yes...lots of fun.
able to look the best current LOMC in the eye???
not even close......so...I moved on.
vintage....is...vintage. lots of fun, involving and sexy, interesting..........but less of the whole picture. and when pushed with complicated, dynamic, music they get very sloppy. OTOH when kept within their design envelope vintage MM cart's can be very satisfying.
David's thorens reference is still the best TT I have heard. I agree that resolution could be added to some vintage gear but again that can be balanced. The neumann DST in David's system was extremely resolving, and one can always add an ortofon a95 if one chose to.
But again one is not taking only vintage, but the fact that modern is not necessarily better than vintage (and vice versa). My favorite speakers continue to be western electrics (extremely vintage) and apogees (not really vintage) restored with modern components.
But again one is not taking only vintage, but the fact that modern is not necessarily better than vintage (and vice versa). My favorite speakers continue to be western electrics (extremely vintage) and apogees (not really vintage) restored with modern components.
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