Of coarse he did not, he is just not a TT guy, his hands are to big to properly set up a cartridge, those Dutch are the biggest people in the world !
Why, oh why, does vinyl continue to blow away digital?
- Thread starter godofwealth
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Of coarse he did not, he is just not a TT guy, his hands are to big to properly set up a cartridge, those Dutch are the biggest people in the world !
I mentioned SQ .
Im not even mentioning convenience yet.
I think i ll start another thread.
Why does digital continue to blow away vinyl.
I ll make only one exception thats Fm acoustics LP playback
If the Fremer video is from the phono and not from the system, why the frick would anybody do that?
You may have noticed I think it was my #3 question where I asked about caveats or concerns about any of the videos. Personally, for me it was mostly Fremer's. In fact, it sounded soooo close to the unadulterated version from youtube that originally I had the "official" youtube flavor listed last but moved it up to just below Fremer's to see if any ears might perk up.
To me Fremer's video sounded near identical to the youtube "official?" video. It had the same distinct L&R channel separation that usually only occurs from direct recordings and headphones (IOW, no listening room), same ambient info, etc. Not quite identical as Fremer's version seemed a bit more rolled-off where some might interpret as smooth or musical. The biggest difference to me between those two videos was Fremer's dynamics were clipped, subdued, softened, etc.
But I knew something was up because I've seen a few pictures of Fremer's room and I was none too impressed. IOW, how in the world could he have possibly eliminated all room acoustic anomalies? Especially in that room? And the only answer I could come up with was, Fremer must have placed recording mics maybe 2 ft in front of each speaker which if he had would also be of no use to anyone.
I also wondered why the camera was only focused on the turntable rather than the listening area. Given the above, Fremer's video left me puzzled. But it was what it was and he's promoting a $370k TT plus a $45k phono stage so I just assumed all was on the up and up. Very odd and what a waste of time.
Anyway, thanks for your input.
BTW, the real kicker for me was that Fremer's $415k TT + phono combo plus vinyl source actually sounded less musical than the all-digital Youtube flavor. Mostly because Fremer's dynamics were clipped. Hardly what I'd call being blown away by vinyl.
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If the Fremer video is from the phono and not from the system, why the frick would anybody do that?
You may have noticed I think it was my #3 question where I asked about caveats or concerns about any of the videos. Personally, for me it was mostly Fremer's. In fact, it sounded soooo close to the unadulterated version from youtube that originally I had the "official" youtube flavor listed last but moved it up to just below Fremer's to see if any ears might perk up.
To me Fremer's video sounded near identical to the youtube "official?" video. It had the same distinct L&R channel separation that usually only occurs from direct recordings and headphones (IOW, no listening room), same ambient info, etc. Not quite identical as Fremer's version seemed a bit more rolled-off where some might interpret as smooth or musical. The biggest difference to me between those two videos was Fremer's dynamics were clipped, subdued, softened, etc.
But I knew something was up because I've seen a few pictures of Fremer's room and I was none too impressed. IOW, how in the world could he have possibly eliminated all room acoustic anomalies? Especially in that room? And the only answer I could come up with was, Fremer must have placed recording mics maybe 2 ft in front of each speaker which if he had would also be of no use to anyone.
I also wondered why the camera was only focused on the turntable rather than the listening area. Given the above, Fremer's video left me puzzled. But it was what it was and he's promoting a $370k TT plus a $45k phono stage so I just assumed all was on the up and up. Very odd and what a waste of time.
Anyway, thanks for your input.
BTW, the real kicker for me was that Fremer's $415k TT + phono combo plus vinyl source actually sounded less musical than the all-digital Youtube flavor. Mostly because Fremer's dynamics were clipped. Hardly what I'd call being blown away by vinyl.
There are differences between the two "in room" videos (yours and bobvin's), but less so than there are between those two compared to either of the two others ("official video" and Fremer's vinyl rip). This is normal and due to a) the use of low quality microphones b) speakers (or absence thereof) c) the room. Concerning the room, this is very apparent with the vocals, which sound recessed in the two "in room" videos. A different microphone placement can improve things.
When comparing the Fremer recording with the YouTube digital version, you should take into account the difference in volume levels.
By the way, in the video's comments Fremer explains that he used a Lynx HiLo ADC (so connected to the analog output of the CH Precision phono preamp).
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What about the vinyl vs. digital of the same recording? There are sometimes rather large differences between an LP and a digital version of that same recording. Is it the format? Is it the mastering? Is it both? FWIW, there are huge differences in some cases between CD quality and various HR editions of the same recording on a streaming platform like Qobuz...often the cd quality one sounds the best!
One thing that is clear from the analog (off the phono) and digital file compared to either room video is that the voice is much more forward and drier in the mix from the vinyl and digital file. The Alsyvox, while clean and clear has reticence in the presence of the voice and it sounds "inverted" from the files (I am calling the vinyl a file for ease of descriptions) in the sense the voice is set back in the mix rather than pushed forward. Also room reverb is heard on the voice, which is unavoidable, and why the "files" are drier and more matter of fact. Stenhos is a bit more present but more hollow and echoey on the voice...something I have commented on about his videos in general. I think his video gets the balance between the instruments and voice closer to the files but still some ways off.Fremer's analog system
Presumably unadulterated (no system, no room) "official?" digital Youtube video.
bobvin's analog system
My digital system
I think delusional is an excellent word. Not just for you but for perhaps a host of others too.
I’ve only browsed this thread and noticed some good informative comments but also some rather lame, ignorant, contemptuous, and/or derogatory comments as well. Isn’t this behavior more commonly known as sealioning?
Regardless, above are 2 analog and 2 digital-sourced videos. These are all set to auto-start at roughly the same mark since in the first 30 seconds of bobvin’s video, Bob has his butt up, volume down, and camera turned toward his gear (unbalanced presentation).
Obviously every playback config above is quite different but the subject matter here is, does vinyl's performance really blow away digital? And if the source is so important as some allude, does anything else really matter much?
Given that...
1. Does the discerning ear genuinely perceive being "blown away" between the sonic differences of these videos?
2. What are those sonic differences?
3. Can any sonic differences be attributed directly to the vinyl or digital format and/or source?
4. What, if any, are the caveats or concerns with any of these videos?
Presuming of course the listener is listening with headphones and volume levels at least approaching that of the perceived live performance level.
this video was both posted by fremer on his tracking angle channel, and by the absolute sound on their magazine's channel.
the 2 videos of the same recording sound different!!!
it seems one can never make a perfect copy digitally.....
fremer's recording of this video sounds a bit subdued at the top end when the UHQR disc was played on the acrylic platter turntable.
i supposed part of the reason is the result of analogue production's usual non-too-subtle rolling off the top end to cater to audiophiles' sound taste.
the other possible reason could be due to the acrylic platter itself.
didn't fremer come out and said a few times he didn't like platters made of acrylic?
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Sure I meant the quality of what we get to hear, the digital or vinyl release.
There could be other reasons. One of them is the output level - his recording has a lower level.
Comparing a vinyl rip to a digital file is not really a fair comparison. It would probably be more relevant to compare:
- vinyl+phono preamp+ADC
- digital source+DAC+ same ADC
The Lynx ADC he used is well regarded, but we don't know how he used it (with what settings). What about the phono preamp? It's a CH Precision, well regarded as well, but how does that work with an ADC?
I tried recently to record my DAC's output connected to an ADC (Tascam DR40X) but that recorder lowers the signal level. I'll try again with my M2TECH Joplin which should have better quality ADC and can be set to zero gain (and no DSP). I am curious to compare the results to see how transparent my DAC and that ADC are.
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The timbre of fremer's voice has changed on the absolute sound version, which I assume is the replicate copy.
It's almost like comparing a subsequent print of a CD to the original first print. The original always sound fuller bodied, more natural, more closer to how analogue recording would sound. The subsequent copy would often sound diluted, clangy, electronicalised.
Did the change came about because of the admin person downloading fremer's video onto his computer and then uploading it onto their own channel? Or did the change came simply by fremer emailing them his original copy and they then uploaded it? I didn't watch and compared them from beginning till the end, so I don't know if that admin person inserted anywhere any extra clips to differentiate themselves. I know their media person is very fond of hearing himself talk on their videos.
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Its amazing what some people can extrapolate from a couple of YT vids
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Dont worry .
Feel free to comment
I hear ya. Compared to those unable to extrapolate from or grossly misinterpret YouTube videos or for that matter in-room presentations, I wouldn’t be surprised if some perceived such skills as miraculous.
You don’t suppose it’s because those types are listening for all the wrong things, do you?
