YG introduces the InVincible, 21" all-aluminum 6000W sub!

[asiufy]

Cool, thanks... That recording is available on Qobuz, so when I get to play with the InVincible, I'll give that recording a spin!

 

[Ron Resnick]

Thought I'd post this cool video that YG produced, presenting the InVincible's strenghts

YG InVincible video

I watched the video, and I am damn impressed! (The facing but angled/offset drivers design still freaks me out a little bit (are they in phase, are they out of phase?; are they push-pull?; are they opposing force canceling?) — in much the same way that it took me a very long time to be able to watch the Kronos turntables’ counter-rotating platters!)

So who is the competitor represented by the red line in the various charts?

I don’t know, but I did hear the narrator refer to “another competitor that uses three of these [paper drivers].” I assume that is the Wilson Audio Master Subsonic.

 

[the sound of Tao]

Love the look of the invincible, but I was wondering the same thing... who is the mystery leading competitor. Not publishing the brand and model of the competitor referenced kind of invalidates the comparison as the figures then aren’t able to be cited or reconciled. Takes a lot of punch out of the argument. We are left to wonder who it is Wilson, Magico, Rel...

I’m also sure that neither Magico nor Wilson would consider their totl sota subs as any less hyper hi-end than YG’s.

 

[spiritofmusic]

So, will the totl YG 4 towers w these subs need three pairs of monos?

 

[asiufy]

No, one pair will do. Or a stereo amp.

 

[ack]

Hmm, I would consider a 411g cone very heavy - that's close to half a kilo and a whole pound! - which it probably is with the voice coil. The box-within-box construction makes it easier to fool an accelerometer, which measures the outter box, when the driver is mostly interacting with the inner box; so the question is, how did they measure distortion. I am guessing Competitor #3 with the other aluminum cone may be Magico. I am not really a fan of cones with spines because of the additional weight, but... Would love to hear the YG sub vs the other competitors (though I fundamentally don't care for paper cones).

 

[Ron Resnick]

Dear Alex,

Do you know if the Invincible accepts a speaker-level input (as well as the standard line-level input)?

Does the DSP system require you to use its internal high pass cross-over to send the signal to the main speakers? Or can you send a full-range signal to the Invincible and use its low pass cross-over to keep the Invincible completely separate from the signal going to the main speakers, and just bring the Invincible up underneath the output from the main speakers?

 

[asiufy]

Ron,

I don't have much information on the InVincible, unfortunately. The room in Munich was 100% madness throughout, so I couldn't investigate further.
We're hoping to have the InVincible in one of our room at THE Show next month. We'll then have enough time to play with it and get actual first-hand experience.
Let me see what information I can get from YG, and I'll get back to you here.


cheers,
Alex

 

[Elliot G.]

Cool, thanks... That recording is available on Qobuz, so when I get to play with the InVincible, I'll give that recording a spin!

I really thought that the Nagra YG room at Munich was excellent and they had one of those large woofers in the system.
How much is the beast?

 

[asiufy]

Three versions of the fully modular InVincible are available – the 21.1, a single-driver subwoofer; 21.1i, a down-firing configuration of the first model to protect the driver in busy high-traffic households, or to allow for placement of a centre-speaker on the flat top; and 21.2, which is the flagship and features a large, dual-driver subwoofer.

The system is fully compatible with both stereo and multi-channel audio and home theatre systems.

The 21.1 and 21.1i retail for US$55,000 per unit, while the 21.2 is US$100,000.

 

[Elliot G.]

Three versions of the fully modular InVincible are available – the 21.1, a single-driver subwoofer; 21.1i, a down-firing configuration of the first model to protect the driver in busy high-traffic households, or to allow for placement of a centre-speaker on the flat top; and 21.2, which is the flagship and features a large, dual-driver subwoofer.

The system is fully compatible with both stereo and multi-channel audio and home theatre systems.

The 21.1 and 21.1i retail for US$55,000 per unit, while the 21.2 is US$100,000.

Thank you .

 

[asiufy]

Ron,

It's line-level only, RCA or XLR.
The InVincible does not do any high-pass to your main speakers. It simply works beneath your main speakers. From your pre-amp you send a full range signal to the InVincible so that its internal crossover does the work.

alex

 

[Ron Resnick]

Ron,

It's line-level only, RCA or XLR.
The InVincible does not do any high-pass to your main speakers. It simply works beneath your main speakers. From your pre-amp you send a full range signal to the InVincible so that its internal crossover does the work.

alex

That makes sense. Thank you, Alex!

 

[Mark Seaton]

Hmm, I would consider a 411g cone very heavy - that's close to half a kilo and a whole pound! - which it probably is with the voice coil. The box-within-box construction makes it easier to fool an accelerometer, which measures the outter box, when the driver is mostly interacting with the inner box; so the question is, how did they measure distortion. I am guessing Competitor #3 with the other aluminum cone may be Magico. I am not really a fan of cones with spines because of the additional weight, but... Would love to hear the YG sub vs the other competitors (though I fundamentally don't care for paper cones).

I missed this post previously, but I think we're missing some context for that mass, aside from the matter of if it matters much or not.

If you want an actual woofer that goes deep, you really need some moving mass to keep the resonance low to not get too far below the efficient range of a woofer. If a woofer is super light, you can only get deep with huge cabinets per cone area, or lots of signal shaping, and often at some performance compromise. Mass simply needs to be balanced with the bandwidth of interest, the enclosure design, and the motor moving it. Contrary to what intuition might at first suggest, moving mass of a driver has no direct impact on its high frequency extension, but rather the efficiency and low frequency damping. I've seen demonstrations of 1kg added to a cone firing straight up where the change observed is almost entirely shifting the same frequency response lower with a higher Q and lower frequency to lower limit of the response. So long as the motor is strong enough for the mass in the intended box, the results can often be more desirable than lowering the mass.

In this case, we are talking about a 21" woofer. That's about 3.2x the area of a typical 12" cone, where the same mass on a 12" cone would be ~128g, or about 209g on a 15" cone. While certainly not featherweight, the majority of subwoofer drivers have relatively more moving mass. The 411g number actually falls in the middle to lower end of most 21" pro audio woofers which are largely required to have high sensitivity above 30-45Hz.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Very interesting, Mark! Thank you for that explanation!

 

[LL21]

Another great read from Mark Seaton! Thanks for explaining in English I can [just about] follow!

 

[Elliot G.]

This comment has nothing to do with this sub

How many of you think that 50k plus sub woofers actually have a viable place in the market?
Would you buy one if you can afford it?

 

[Mike Lavigne]

This comment has nothing to do with this sub

How many of you think that 50k plus sub woofers actually have a viable place in the market?
Would you buy one if you can afford it?

this is aimed at owners of stand alone $175k and up speaker systems where the choice is (1) an even more costly stand alone speaker 'system' (maybe twin tower) which does reach very low, or (2) adding the best subwoofer they can buy. or the one that looks the best anyway....sexiest.

and the tough part is selling that $175k speaker system for any reasonable return.

they will likely try the subwoofer route first before taking the bath. much cheaper.

 

[Elliot G.]

this is aimed at owners of stand alone $175k and up speaker systems where the choice is (1) an even more costly stand alone speaker 'system' (maybe twin tower) which does reach very low, or (2) adding the best subwoofer they can buy. or the one that looks the best anyway....sexiest.

and the tough part is selling that $175k speaker system for any reasonable return.

they will likely try the subwoofer route first before taking the bath. much cheaper.

thanks but that is a really tiny market Mike really really tiny tiny lol

 

[Mark Seaton]

thanks but that is a really tiny market Mike really really tiny tiny lol

If you look at all of YG Acoustics's designs, I don't see much of anything straying from the target of a niche within an already small niche. I would give credit for a more unique solution than we often see in such solutions. Of course I'm always amused when I hear behind the scenes that some show favorites sometimes sell less than a handful of units, while I've been shocked at quantities of other products with what might at first blush seem like brazen pricing. Of course once you get into the realm of such exotic material, manufacturing, and methods, little details do very quickly ratchet up the cost. While of course you have to stop somewhere, the higher the price climbs the more it makes sense to pull out all the stops. The question comes back to balance in valuing the craftsmanship, design, and artistic details vs the acoustic performance.