Yikes!!!!! Spain plans to cut workweek to improve work-life balance

[hopkins]

It sure depends what country you are in, here in Denmark it is excellent, you get what you pay for i guess

Scandinavian countries are a model in that respect. Things are very different here in France.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

It sure depends what country you are in, here in Denmark it is excellent, you get what you pay for i guess

there are underlying factors to get the opportunity and means to pay for the highest standards.....and get them.

population economics and demographics are the dominant factor for this. which then creates choices and consequences which allow for optimization in some cases. then education standards and governance tend to push things further in whatever direction things are going.

yes culture and tradition are major but again but they too rely on underlying factors to matter.

wanting the Scandinavian advantages is not enough. if you suddenly applied Danish thinking to France you would still have insurmountable obstacles. the people of France would be mostly in the same situation. maybe if you did that 150 years ago that might have mattered.....some.

btw; France is an amazing place and i'm not picking on it. never been there. just the whole comfortable end of life thing is less assured for many reasons.....and not as simple as paying for it as a normal thing.

 

[godofwealth]

I spent a whole week in Stockholm a few years ago, and walked the whole city. Didn't see a single homeless person. The streets were clean and safe, Traffic was surprisingly light. Most people commuted by bicycle. It seemed a refreshing change from San Francisco, where it is not uncommon to see drug use in the streets, heroin needles, and trash thrown all around. SF may be the AI capital of the world, but it sure is not what it used to be in the heyday when the Hitchcock movie Vertigo was filmed there. I hope the newly elected Mayor of SF can turn things around. Box retailers are leaving in droves as the grab-and-snatch problem has become endemic. Policing seems non-existent (e.g., any break in of your car is not treated as a crime but a misdemeanor and never prosecuted).

 

[hopkins]

there are underlying factors to get the opportunity and means to pay for the highest standards.....and get them.

population economics and demographics are the dominant factor for this. which then creates choices and consequences which allow for optimization in some cases. then education standards and governance tend to push things further in whatever direction things are going.

yes culture and tradition are major but again but they too rely on underlying factors to matter.

wanting the Scandinavian advantages is not enough. if you suddenly applied Danish thinking to France you would still have insurmountable obstacles. the people of France would be mostly in the same situation. maybe if you did that 150 years ago that might have mattered.....some.

btw; France is an amazing place and i'm not picking on it. never been there. just the whole comfortable end of life thing is less assured for many reasons.....and not as simple as paying for it as a normal thing.

There are a variety of factors at play.

Here is an excellent book on the topic - unfortunately only available in French - but perhaps some here who speak French will be curious to read it.

https://amzn.eu/d/7ZbNweP

 

[mtemur]

I spent a whole week in Stockholm a few years ago, and walked the whole city. Didn't see a single homeless person.

If you walk the streets of Moscow, you wouldn’t see a single homeless person either, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the standard of living or family incomes are high. Unfortunately, it may be due to the extremely cold winters, which can be fatal for homeless people. Stockholm is a very cold city too.

People in Stockholm undoubtedly have a high standard of living, but I don’t think it’s accurate to judge wealth or living standards based solely on the number of homeless people on the streets. IMHO homelessness is more related to the social structure of a society. In some cultures, a parent’s responsibility never truly ends -they continue to support their children even into old age without questioning it. Relatives also provide help. In such societies, homelessness is rare, even if living standards are very low.

 

[Tangram]

By peoples answers to my question of wealth, it sounds like some feel its ok to never have enough wealth to be self sufficient. Some trust government to take care of them at a level that maintains "Happiness". The effort to achieve enough wealth to be self sufficient is not worth it. Just be happy you can only work 37.5 hours now, not 40 hours.

I ask as I feel a government that's cutting the working class pay in order to stifle their economy, so it does not outperform other local economies is limiting citizens ability to acquire wealth on many levels. Not just the direct loss of pay.

When I was in the field, most everyone wanted to work 48 to 56 hours to get the overtime and additional cash. Many used this to purchase rental homes to build assets in one's portfolio. Most all had stock investments. I don't know of anyone that was looking for part time work. We wanted to acquire Wealth so we would be self sufficient when we retire.

Maybe the USA is different. Our Social Security is about $25,000 a year. And that is taxed at about 20%. So I actually get $20,000. An apartment to rent if you want to stay in the neighborhood where you have lived your whole working life is about $18,000 a year. In short, government is not going to take care of you. So you work to have savings to support yourself in your old age.

If you have to go to an assisted living facility, its $5000 a month if you require no help. If your need assistance with say medicatons and possibly bathing, it goes up to $10,000 to $15,000 per month.

Just saying. We work hard because we have to. The option of aging out of the workforce and living in poverty is not appealing.

“The ultimate moral test of any government is the way it treats three groups of its citizens. First, those in the dawn of life — our children. Second, those in the shadows of life — our needy, our sick, our handicapped. Third, those in the twilight of life — our elderly.” Hubert Humphrey

 

[Rexp]

I spent a whole week in Stockholm a few years ago, and walked the whole city. Didn't see a single homeless person. The streets were clean and safe, Traffic was surprisingly light. Most people commuted by bicycle. It seemed a refreshing change from San Francisco, where it is not uncommon to see drug use in the streets, heroin needles, and trash thrown all around. SF may be the AI capital of the world, but it sure is not what it used to be in the heyday when the Hitchcock movie Vertigo was filmed there. I hope the newly elected Mayor of SF can turn things around. Box retailers are leaving in droves as the grab-and-snatch problem has become endemic. Policing seems non-existent (e.g., any break in of your car is not treated as a crime but a misdemeanor and never prosecuted).

Sweden has 4 times as many shootings its neighbours due to its out of control gang problem.

 

[andromedaaudio]

Best countries to

Sweden has 4 times as many shootings its neighbours due to its out of control gang problem.

Thats why you need to be home early / Short workdays

 

[alexatpos]

If you walk the streets of Moscow, you wouldn’t see a single homeless person either, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the standard of living or family incomes are high. Unfortunately, it may be due to the extremely cold winters, which can be fatal for homeless people. Stockholm is a very cold city too.

People in Stockholm undoubtedly have a high standard of living, but I don’t think it’s accurate to judge wealth or living standards based solely on the number of homeless people on the streets. IMHO homelessness is more related to the social structure of a society. In some cultures, a parent’s responsibility never truly ends -they continue to support their children even into old age without questioning it. Relatives also provide help. In such societies, homelessness is rare, even if living standards are very low.

I guess we should try to define the 'living standards'. For certain, for example, the Germans (in general) have 'higher standard' than Italians and leave their parental home earlier, but I would certainly prefer more to live in Italy, than in Germany (not to say that I do not like Germany, spend much time there too) One could argue that NYC or L.A. (places I've been) are not the 'real' US, but to achieve same quality of life there, like you could, in lets say Italy and many other places in Europe too, (if the references are enjoying own free time, living space, access and cost of medical services or education, nature, culture, society, or cousine) the man has to be retired millionaire...

 

[Kingrex]

I spent a whole week in Stockholm a few years ago, and walked the whole city. Didn't see a single homeless person. The streets were clean and safe, Traffic was surprisingly light. Most people commuted by bicycle. It seemed a refreshing change from San Francisco, where it is not uncommon to see drug use in the streets, heroin needles, and trash thrown all around. SF may be the AI capital of the world, but it sure is not what it used to be in the heyday when the Hitchcock movie Vertigo was filmed there. I hope the newly elected Mayor of SF can turn things around. Box retailers are leaving in droves as the grab-and-snatch problem has become endemic. Policing seems non-existent (e.g., any break in of your car is not treated as a crime but a misdemeanor and never prosecuted).

Well, the world scaufs at the US incarceration rate. The response was, don't incarcerate. We treat social issues like we treat medicine. We address the symptoms, not the disease.

 

[Kingrex]

there are underlying factors to get the opportunity and means to pay for the highest standards.....and get them.

population economics and demographics are the dominant factor for this. which then creates choices and consequences which allow for optimization in some cases. then education standards and governance tend to push things further in whatever direction things are going.

yes culture and tradition are major but again but they too rely on underlying factors to matter.

wanting the Scandinavian advantages is not enough. if you suddenly applied Danish thinking to France you would still have insurmountable obstacles. the people of France would be mostly in the same situation. maybe if you did that 150 years ago that might have mattered.....some.

btw; France is an amazing place and i'm not picking on it. never been there. just the whole comfortable end of life thing is less assured for many reasons.....and not as simple as paying for it as a normal thing.

People ignore Scandinavian countries are small populations set next to large European nations they sell into. Wirhout access to the large Euro Economy, they would be broke. And they made a lot of money on oil that, lucky for the people, went to the people. As the world turns against oil, what will happen.

 

[Kingrex]

If you walk the streets of Moscow, you wouldn’t see a single homeless person either, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the standard of living or family incomes are high. Unfortunately, it may be due to the extremely cold winters, which can be fatal for homeless people. Stockholm is a very cold city too.

People in Stockholm undoubtedly have a high standard of living, but I don’t think it’s accurate to judge wealth or living standards based solely on the number of homeless people on the streets. IMHO homelessness is more related to the social structure of a society. In some cultures, a parent’s responsibility never truly ends -they continue to support their children even into old age without questioning it. Relatives also provide help. In such societies, homelessness is rare, even if living standards are very low.

Sounds so wrong. Your kids should be supporting the parents. That helicopter mentally in my opinion ruined a generation or two.

 

[mtemur]

Sounds so wrong. Your kids should be supporting the parents. That helicopter mentally in my opinion ruined a generation or two.

The opposite is also true in those societies, as you’ve suggested. Children take care of their parents, move them in, and look after them when they are old. They rarely place their parents in nursing homes.

So, parents look after their children and grand children even after they're grown up and when they get old children look after their parents. BTW I'm not favoring this society or comparing it with others. I'm just saying that it is hard to evaluate living standard and correlation with wealth in this kind of supportive-society.

In those kinds of supportive societies, you see fewer homeless people on the streets, fewer complaints about poor living standards, and almost no social upheavals or mass demonstrations. People may not be wealthy, but they may be happier and, in a way, feel they have a better standard of living than wealthier societies that lack strong social bonds.

 

[Kingrex]

The opposite is also true in those societies, as you’ve suggested. Children take care of their parents, move them in, and look after them when they are old. They rarely place their parents in nursing homes.

So, parents look after their children and grand children even after they're grown up and when they get old children look after their parents. BTW I'm not favoring this society or comparing it with others. I'm just saying that it is hard to evaluate living standard and correlation with wealth in this kind of supportive-society.

If you get along with your parents and can work out the hierarchy of control, it could be great to be in a generational family.

But, we work till 62.5 in the US. That is our government mandated retirement age. That means grandma and grandpa are 9 to 5 at the office till the kids are out of college. They are not a help with kids.

 

[A-Line]

Lots of ideas being passed around with Elon Musk saying that AI will take over most jobs in the near future. Seems to me that folks should be more concerned with a " universal income" that may become a reality in the near future, according to Elon Musk...

For the past 35 years or so the majority of college grads got jobs in a cubical sitting in front of a computer screen. Now there's a chance that those in such positions will find themselves living on a fixed income with limited means to pursue recreational activities. Life will be very different in such a world.

Just my opinions.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

If you walk the streets of Moscow, you wouldn’t see a single homeless person either, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that the standard of living or family incomes are high. Unfortunately, it may be due to the extremely cold winters, which can be fatal for homeless people. Stockholm is a very cold city too.

People in Stockholm undoubtedly have a high standard of living, but I don’t think it’s accurate to judge wealth or living standards based solely on the number of homeless people on the streets. IMHO homelessness is more related to the social structure of a society. In some cultures, a parent’s responsibility never truly ends -they continue to support their children even into old age without questioning it. Relatives also provide help. In such societies, homelessness is rare, even if living standards are very low.

the homeless issue on the left coast of the USA has to do with governance decisions, together with the relative cost of living, and the drug use laws. and until very recently localities were helpless to insist homeless go to shelters, and local leaders have not pushed it hard.

so it's complicated even though mostly there are jobs and homeless shelters. but certainly there are those who want help but cannot get it too. mental health disorders are a big issue. the weather for the most part is temperate with a few exceptions.

it's a huge issue.

 

[Lagonda]

People ignore Scandinavian countries are small populations set next to large European nations they sell into. Wirhout access to the large Euro Economy, they would be broke. And they made a lot of money on oil that, lucky for the people, went to the people. As the world turns against oil, what will happen.

Sweden never had oil, Denmark has a diversified economy, with tech, pharma, shipping, oil and farming. The Norwegians have placed a lot of their oil revenue in a government run fund and are set pretty well for the future without oil.

 

[DasguteOhr]

Sweden never had oil, Denmark has a diversified economy, with tech, pharma, shipping, oil and farming. The Norwegians have placed a lot of their oil revenue in a government run fund and are set pretty well for the future without oil.

Yes, norway has invested a lot of oil profits in gold. Rumor has it that they have the fourth largest gold reserve in the world.

 

[Kingrex]

Norway also has tourism to see wild Trolls. The zoo ones are boring.

 

[alexatpos]

Lots of ideas being passed around with Elon Musk saying that AI will take over most jobs in the near future. Seems to me that folks should be more concerned with a " universal income" that may become a reality in the near future, according to Elon Musk...

For the past 35 years or so the majority of college grads got jobs in a cubical sitting in front of a computer screen. Now there's a chance that those in such positions will find themselves living on a fixed income with limited means to pursue recreational activities. Life will be very different in such a world.

Just my opinions.

So called 'basic income' is old idea, in fact even Eric Fromm wrote about it in his book 'To have or to be' published in 1976. The concept itself is not a bad idea at all, but people always find ways to corrupt even the best ideas. Interestingly the Swiss held referendum about it few years ago. 'The proposal had called for adults to be paid an unconditional monthly income, whether they worked or not. The supporters camp had suggested a monthly income of 2,500 Swiss francs for adults and also SFr625 for each child. Final results referendum showed that nearly 77% opposed the plan, with only 23% backing it.'...