ying and yang--Lamm ML3 and darTZeel 458

[microstrip]

(...) they are keepers (...)

I was almost sure, otherwise I would be in the queue ...

My only question is how long you are going to resist to complement them with a Lamm preamplifier. Isn't the ML3 whispering "Why does the NHB 458 deserve an NHB 108 and I do not have a LL1.1 to keep company?"

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I apologize for bringing politics into this thread. let's move on from that. thanks. my bad.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

I was almost sure, otherwise I would be in the queue ...

My only question is how long you are going to resist to complement them with a Lamm preamplifier. Isn't the ML3 whispering "Why does the NHB 458 deserve an NHB 108 and I do not have a LL1.1 to keep company?"

not even a little bit. the balance and level of tube lusciousness is perfect to my ears. more tubes would just get in the way of the flow. the Lamm pre would not lower the noise floor compared to the dart pre, and it could raise it.

my opinion is that the dart pre would end up being preferable to the Lamm for the overall balance of my system. YMMV.

then there is the whole 4 boxes, no remote, aspect to consider.

nope; happy, happy, happy.....as it is and not even curious.

if the noise problem had not vanished completely that might have caused me to consider it.

 

[rockitman]

Ouch indeed... an hour of Cockroach News is sheer torture

Better than the liar Fake news Mainstream liberal media..Ha Ha !!!

 

[microstrip]

not even a little bit. the balance and level of tube lusciousness is perfect to my ears. more tubes would just get in the way of the flow. the Lamm pre would not lower the noise floor compared to the dart pre, and it could raise it.

my opinion is that the dart pre would end up being preferable to the Lamm for the overall balance of my system. YMMV.

then there is the whole 4 boxes, no remote, aspect to consider.

nope; happy, happy, happy.....as it is and not even curious.

if the noise problem had not vanished completely that might have caused me to consider it.

Interesting that we have different perspectives in this hobby. I also could not see how replacing a noise free transistor preamplifier with a tube one could help solving a noise problem, and would never consider such hypothesis for technical reasons, but later found that the LL1.1 measurements show that this tube preamplifier has an weighted noise floor more than 20dB lower than the old version of the NH18! Fortunately you solved it changing wiring and grounding. However, I feel tempted to consider that a LL1.1 would give us more of the characteristics of ML3. As you have opened the Pandora box since a week ago, can I ask if you have tried driving the ML3 directly with MSB Select II?

Our best known politician, when asked once why he changed his mind so frequently had a great answer "Only donkeys never change". I think that this applies particularly well to our high-end systems!

 

[spiritofmusic]

Hmm, the more Mike says he won’t change his pre, the more people suggest that he should LOL.

 

[microstrip]

Hmm, the more Mike says he won’t change his pre, the more people suggest that he should LOL.

Just to make it clear, I do not suggest changing anything, just adding! And surely would love to read from Mike about such experience.

 

[harleyguy]

Hmm, the more Mike says he won’t change his pre, the more people suggest that he should LOL.

change the pre which is better and pick up a lamm phono stage sell the dartzeel pre

 

[ALF]

change the pre which is better and pick up a lamm phono stage sell the dartzeel pre

+1

Harleyguy has a good brain!

Cheers!
ALF

 

[andromedaaudio]

NO , get a lamm pre somewhere and compare. , NO body died of comparing .
May be the dart is better to mikes ears .
What i do think is that many amp manufacturers can design a good poweramp but designing a very good pre is another story.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

sigh; if someone wants to go to the trouble to bring the LL1.1 over for me to plug in and listen, I'd be totally open for that. why not? nothing to lose. but I'd not want to spend money to ship it in and out.

I've heard the ML3 with the LL1.1 with matching phono a few times already in other systems so I don't need to hear it somewhere else again. great sounding for sure. but so is what I'm hearing.

tiny differences for 7 more boxes and $70k retail value more? maybe in another lifetime

 

[andromedaaudio]

 

[Folsom]

Interesting that we have different perspectives in this hobby. I also could not see how replacing a noise free transistor preamplifier with a tube one could help solving a noise problem, and would never consider such hypothesis for technical reasons, but later found that the LL1.1 measurements show that this tube preamplifier has an weighted noise floor more than 20dB lower than the old version of the NH18! Fortunately you solved it changing wiring and grounding. However, I feel tempted to consider that a LL1.1 would give us more of the characteristics of ML3. As you have opened the Pandora box since a week ago, can I ask if you have tried driving the ML3 directly with MSB Select II?

Our best known politician, when asked once why he changed his mind so frequently had a great answer "Only donkeys never change". I think that this applies particularly well to our high-end systems!

Nothing is Enoise free.

There are technical reasons. They're very plainly evident, like an elephant walking through your bathroom. You just need to go read this book, and get up to speed (it's only 800 pages).

Again a very good test to see why the hum exists with SE and the setup is to unplug the preamp's charging cord and see if the Anoise is still there. It does not matter that it isn't charging, the very proximity might be the reason. And the preamp will turn on and operate off of the batteries in order to try the experiment. By doing this we'll know a lot about the loop, and be able to possibly assess more solutions. From an electrical engineering stand point this is extremely important to note this test.

 

[Folsom]

sigh; if someone wants to go to the trouble to bring the LL1.1 over for me to plug in and listen, I'd be totally open for that. why not? nothing to lose. but I'd not want to spend money to ship it in and out.

I've heard the ML3 with the LL1.1 with matching phono a few times already in other systems so I don't need to hear it somewhere else again. great sounding for sure. but so is what I'm hearing.

tiny differences for 7 more boxes and $70k retail value more? maybe in another lifetime

Mike, can you do an ohm reading between the RCA jack output ground (outter barrel) and to chassis on the preamp (choose one that is selected for output with device on, and unplugged from ML3)? A screw and/or anything making an obvious connection to chassis will work. And then with the preamp's charger plugged in a reading between preamp chassis and safety ground on AC? If you need to find a safety ground place to read to, the Herzan isolation table is probably grounded on the bottom half.

Much cheaper than shipping, to help form a picture of what is going on before trying to throw money at it.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, can you do an ohm reading between the RCA jack output ground (outter barrel) and to chassis on the preamp (choose one that is selected for output with device on, and unplugged from ML3)? A screw and/or anything making an obvious connection to chassis will work. And then with the preamp's charger plugged in a reading between preamp chassis and safety ground on AC? If you need to find a safety ground place to read to, the Herzan isolation table is probably grounded on the bottom half.

Much cheaper than shipping, to help form a picture of what is going on before trying to throw money at it.

I’m not a measurer. And can’t think of anything I want to know bad enough to measure.

And the last thing I’m doing is feeding the beast of paralasys by analysis by giving it numbers to feast on.

 

[wisnon]

Mike, please read the PM I sent to you.

 

[jeff1225]

Better than the liar Fake news Mainstream liberal media..Ha Ha !!!

Alex Jones of Info Wars thinks that the LAMM duel volume controls are actually wired together inside the box. It smells like a conspiracy to me.....

 

[Folsom]

I’m not a measurer. And can’t think of anything I want to know bad enough to measure.

And the last thing I’m doing is feeding the beast of paralasys by analysis by giving it numbers to feast on.

Ok....

 

[kevinkwann]

Alex Jones of Info Wars thinks that the LAMM duel volume controls are actually wired together inside the box. It smells like a conspiracy to me.....

“I believe virtually everything I read”

David St. Hubbins

 

[jeff1225]

“I believe virtually everything I read”

David St. Hubbins

LOL...perfect.