You win some, you lose some, this audiophile's (and others?) dilemma

[microstrip]

Completely agree. The room and system set up may not be as glamorous as a shiny new piece of gear, but the improvement far outweighs it IMO. My system components have not changed in five years. I hired Jim Smith to set up my listening seat, speaker position and adjust room treatment, and everything since then has been some tweak. Yet, the system continues to improve. Not very sexy, but so satisfying.

IMHO a completely different and interesting approach - the key idea is getting an expert to tune your system and room. Also IMHO it deserves a separate thread, but I think most audiophiles are not wanting to accept it easily ...

 

[spiritofmusic]

Guys, we're getting to the nub of it
In the 18 months of planning my move from London, executing it, carving out a space I could only dream of, developing a semi retirement philosophy, I've also taken a general 20% squeeze on my self employed earnings with the perfect storm of Brexit and cost of living squeeze across the country
This has taken out a lot of my upgrade budget year to year in one fell swoop
Additionally I do have more priorities and interests not related to audio, and more to do with the chapel here, and living in The Sticks
In London, despite me loving my sound, there were so many things I frustratingly couldn't ever get right eg bass integration with my room, that here is felled in one swoop with improved room acoustics
In some ways my thread is a bit of a redundant "can't I have it all?" plea and an example of how OCD system issues can be
So as I sit and listen and feel blessed two decades of sweating the obsessive details has come off big time with the room synergy making 95% gel, I've got to be careful not to let a below the radar partial negative not take centre stage in my thoughts
As I get older I realise every decision has significant downsides often ironic contradictions
I know I could sweep away Zu cabinet colourations at a stroke with Apogee or Magico purchase
And I know if I did that I'd start up a dozen new threads on the compromises set in motion by those choices

 

[PeterA]

I think this thread should be moved to your virtual system page. It is starting to remind me of the one you started about you not being satisfied with your rim drive turntable, hearing flaws that were not evident in your previous listening room and causing you to question the component and possible alternatives.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I'll leave that to the mods
Yes Peter, some parallels
I truly believe new acoustics and to some extent power are exerting their influence, at once maxxing inherent positives, and revealing some negatives
Sorry if it sounds like I'm self aggrandising or bearing my audio demons LOL

 

[spiritofmusic]

Peter, this thread was never meant to be literally about my choices and whether I should change
It was a more philisophical request to hear about others' dilemmas on having good system balance but still feeling driven to alter that final 5%
No one has really come back on that
Hence I don't want to hog my own thread, I'll refrain from adding until others reply

 

[bonzo75]

Peter, this thread was never meant to be literally about my choices and whether I should change
It was a more philisophical request to hear about others' dilemmas on having good system balance but still feeling driven to alter that final 5%
No one has really come back on that
Hence I don't want to hog my own thread, I'll refrain from adding until others reply

Balance and 5% is relative. There are many systems that can be considered complete, or only 10 percent there. It is like asking, have you arrived in life?

 

[spiritofmusic]

5%, 50%, 0.005%, this is just a turn of phrase
It's really a muse on whether trying to eek out a bit more that could lead to a whole lot more is what others have done on this forum
For me, this "awareness" of my speakers remains my last hurdle
Btw Ked I have arrived in life, but plan to depart at some stage LOL

 

[PeterA]

Peter, this thread was never meant to be literally about my choices and whether I should change
It was a more philisophical request to hear about others' dilemmas on having good system balance but still feeling driven to alter that final 5%
No one has really come back on that
Hence I don't want to hog my own thread, I'll refrain from adding until others reply

See my post number 20 It is definitely worth sweating the small stuff for improvements which turned out to be very influential toward the enjoyment of the music

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sure Peter, your thoughts on Vibraplane a big reason I took a punt on Stacore
Now this is an incremental expense I feel justified in prioritising
Two platforms so far ie first Stacore and on loan active Kuraka are helping deal with my last area of environmental logjam, the floor

 

[PeterA]

Sure Peter, your thoughts on Vibraplane a big reason I took a punt on Stacore
Now this is an incremental expense I feel justified in prioritising
Two platforms so far ie first Stacore and on loan active Kuraka are helping deal with my last area of environmental logjam, the floor

My three Vibraplanes are great, but they were only added to the system after I was already satisfied with my selection of speaker, electronics, and source. It sounds like you are not fully satisfied with your Zu speakers.

 

[Rodney Gold]

no dedicated card carrying audiophile is ever 100% happy with their system..maybe short periods of happiness but then the bee in the bonnet stings...you always want your next eargasm to be better than your last..

 

[Diapason]

Peter, this thread was never meant to be literally about my choices and whether I should change
It was a more philisophical request to hear about others' dilemmas on having good system balance but still feeling driven to alter that final 5%
No one has really come back on that

I'll bite!

You know my feelings here I think. I oscillated between "this sounds great, stop messing with it" and "how can I ignore those areas that I know could be improved?" In the end I never got to a good answer, and just continued oscillating even when I changed components. The problems were always defined by compromise: compromised room, compromised budget, compromised time, but to a greater or lesser extent that's true for all of us. I eventually settled on a place that sacrificed absolute neutrality for an easier, pleasure-driven listen, because the other compromises made the neutrality goal too difficult to achieve without falling off the cliff of enjoyment.

I think I know where you are on the room front, and you're now asking questions of your setup that you couldn't ask before. This is good and enjoyable and is, for me, part of what makes the hobby the hobby. I think if I had the chance in a good room, I'd have to step away from the "known, pleasurable colouration" approach and attempt true-blue neutrality again, and while it would be a fearful step I think it might lead to longer-term satisfaction.

It's good that you don't seem rushed to find a solution, and the certain circumstances have forced you to put the brakes on. Time is on your side here.

 

[RogerD]

Back in August I had the good luck of my downstairs being flooded by a broken sprinkler pipe. It was a blessing because I remodeled the area and installed new wiring for my system and moved that system downstairs. Well since November I have installed my rather large system in the 14x20x8 area,re positioned everything and now I have much more pleasing reproduction than I achieved upstairs. It took about one week to get the speakers correct and about another to get the output levels right. The biggest problem and experience has been to finish my grounding scheme,as that effects everything. All I can say from my experience,I really didn't know how good my system could perform until I installed my extreme grounding scheme.

Marc, try that OTT first and then see if you need to still make a change. You might be surprised

 

[bonzo75]

Marc is OTT about his Entreq grounding and also started the longest running OTT thread on all forums on that

 

[spiritofmusic]

Ked, actually Entreq of limited benefit here
Power seperate from house, balanced transformer and dedicated lines v positive
Entreq not so much
Yep, I did start something in motion with that thread LOL

 

[spiritofmusic]

Diapason, your response is kinda what I was hoping this thread was going to provoke
I certainly am in awe of audiophiles who seem to have it all, natural warmth, tone, speed and transparency
The rest of us are on a kind of game of Snakes And Ladders towards what we think we want
I'm minded to agree with you, that it can be a case of mental torture to keep upending systems to find that elusive missing factor if so much is already enjoyable

 

[The Smokester]

SOM, I think your first step should be to find and listen to the new Zu's to see if they resolve the cabinet issues you now hear. This will allow you to see what is possible and from there you can judge whether pursuing an upgrade would be worth it. The new Zu's would probably also allow you to keep the sound you like, your present electronics, which you like, and selling the existing ones would defer the cost.

Frankly, I'm afraid you've caught an itch, and only you know what the trade offs are that can salve it.

 

[thedudeabides]

no dedicated card carrying audiophile is ever 100% happy with their system..maybe short periods of happiness but then the bee in the bonnet stings...you always want your next eargasm to be better than your last..

I cut up my card years ago. Too much money and too much neurosis for me. Now I just listen to and enjoy music. Much better way to go IMHO.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Smokester, hi, are you new here?
Welcome anyhow
Everything I've heard about the new Zus is evidence that Sean the designer is trying to address the few issues I have with his speakers, incl carbon fibre composite monocoque cabinet and carbon fibre impregnated drivers to max stiffness while reducing weight in an attempt to eliminate cabinets and drivers colourations and "talk", and clever use of multiple light, fast, high efficiency sub drivers to energise the room more successfully
An early report on the new Druid VI which uses this blend of tech and materials reliably comments that colouration is indeed down and invisibility/lack of "talk" is up, esp on vocals
Since I'm very much addicted to the Zu/SETs take on deep and meaningful communication via tone density and presence ("shove and pop" as Sean has coined it) rather than the flat frequency response/heightened resolution model of communication, and this by all accounts is even more in evidence in the new Zu, yes it may be the ticket
But it's a significant step up in price, will need to be biamped requiring outlay on a costly Class A/AB stereo amp in addition, and my thread means I'm seriously considering whether it's a priority

 

[KeithR]

Since I'm a source of the "report", I think you should just wait for the new Zus

All systems have weaknesses - the Rockports dynamically imo. Its up to the individual what is the best compromise for his system and particular budget. Very few have infinite budgets here. Your OCD is getting the better of you.

Remember when Magico Q series was "colorless" and totally transparent? Read the new M3 reviews (which don't sound like Q series at all ime). Heck, JV's version of transparency changes monthly.

Also, your Zus are a 10k speaker which you are comparing to 40k ones. Remember that.