Your All Time Favorite Preamplifiers?

Agreed. My earlier point was "they have gain less than one" from your table in the passive column. As to advantages of inductive vs resistive (both obviously passive), you pointed out an important distinction. And whether a resistor is Mills or some kind of fancy LDR, the distinction is still valid. What about the effect of inductive reactance pointed out by Mr. LDR above? I haven't had time to work that through in my head. Are we talking about a phase shift, distortion, both? AVC measured distortion is vanishingly low...
 
The whole phase of the current for inductive circuits is a fairly large technical cliff that would hijack this thread. If you are going to throw inductors and transformers off that cliff you also have to include capacitors since they they have the same type of relationship. Good luck building an audio circuit without L's and C's in your toolbox. I only added my original comment to make clear that a passive device like a transformer can convert excess voltage into more available current.

dave
 
The basic litmus I use for active vs. passive is power. Active devices require an external source of power to operate and passive devices do not. That is overly simplistic and some passive devices fail the test once you get beyond electronic parts. The chart below from here pretty clearly lays out the differences.

View attachment 92663
So pleased that was not your own block of text, as it contains so many errors and misinformation. As example there is no amplifying device that is entirely linear, as as soon as you add power to a circuit you add either very small partially acceptable, or indeed unacceptable distortion.

Resistors as passives are linear, themselves, up to the point of where Johnson noise contributes approx 10k . which is why amplifier manufacturers test the output of amplifiers into a pure low value resistor load, Potentiometers can become less than linear when driving loads. which is more a statement of their mechanical surface on surface properties, rather than their resistive ones.
 
The last line of the chart had the linear / non-linear labels reversed and contradicted the linked text so I uploaded a new image deleting that line.
 
The last line of the chart had the linear / non-linear labels reversed and contradicted the linked text so I uploaded a new image deleting that line.
It might be easier to just distance yourself as far as you can from the block of text altogether. For example stating passives cannot control the flow of current is just a asking for can of worms, as in partnership with circuitry either side they obviously cause current to pass, which is the basis of potentials , If they didn't none of the circuitry we use for audio would function. As example a resistor controlling a transistor gate or base, does the current pass back to the higher potential or to the base where it causes the transistor to conduct ? it obviously passes to the transistor base - the circuit is non functional without the resistor and its placement has therefore controlled the flow of current

Another that passives store energy in the form of current or voltage, equally misleading as the block of text fails to address that resistors do not store energy rather dissipate energy in the form of heat. Whereas passive components capacitors and inductors indeed do store energy releasing as the adverse to linearity condition, called reactance.
 
I initially built Allen Wright's Vacuum State Audio RTP-3C preamp using point to point wiring about 20 years ago. It is a balanced differential design with 6922/E88CC tubes and a tube/JFET cascode phono stage. It uses a shunt regulator (the Superreg). I chose to use all silver/PTFE wiring with solid wires and foil. Over the years, it has been modified with more advanced parts, different heater regulation etc. As I subsequently bought a factory built version, I have modified my original one to serve as a tape head preamp. This preamp design has very low noise and very wide bandwidth of >1MHz. It has a very low output impedance with its Super Linear Cathode Follower output stage. The tonal balance is neutral, and extremely dynamic. It has up to 70dB of gain for phono input. I don't think many were built during Allen's lifetime, and there are probably more DIY versions out there (since it was first published in Sound Practice), but I think it is still available new from his company that his wife now runs.
 
The entire preamp concept has been fascinating to me since the days preamp voltage gain became optional.

In many systems current gain/impedance matching is also optional, i.e. a simple resistive attenuator can work perfectly.

And yet most of us are unhappy with just a resistive attenuator. Particularly interesting is the case of a dac with a digital attenuator. Imho a well implemented digital attenuator beats sonically any other type of attenuation. And there are dacs with excellent output stages, any flavour of solid state, or tube, dht too. Exactly as a really good preamp.

So, why insist on an extra box, provided the reason is not input switching?

I have two hypotheses.

1. The benefits are due to the added isolation. An interim stage with separate power and an added degree of rf reduction.

2. It's an effects box and a good blend of various effects is musically beneficial.

Perhaps it is a combination of both but wth a bias towards 2.

Here are some observations.

Not many seem to like a good resistive attenuator, per example a ladder made from a Shallco switch and z-foil resistors. This has practically no measurable distortion and microphony and with lowish resistor values, very low noise.

What is universally liked is either an active gain stage, or a high distortion passive attenuator, per example magnetic, having all sorts of distortion mechanisms, especially at low frequencies, or based on photo resistors, which of course have a rich harmonic spectrum.

A particularly amusing case and my personal preference is an active tube stage with an output transformer. This gets the benefit of many additional flavours: tube distortion, transformer distortion, microphony.

And yet some systems can be musically satisfying without an effects box. Why? In what way are they different?
 
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Back in the day when I was just getting started in the 70s, the Apt Holman Preamplifier.
 
I’ve had the opportunity to live extensively with a number of amps including a darTZeel NHB-18NS, Kondo M1000 MkII, Robert Koda K15-EX and now a CH Precision L10, among others.

Although they were used at different times in different systems, they each excelled in emotional engagement and remain my all-time favorites.
 
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I have over 15 years experience with encapsulated audio purpose LDR's, ( different to open face types ) the rich harmonic spectrum you refer to above, is not the LDR itself, rather a statement ( if it occurs ) of the mistakes being made, in powering the internal LED. I have also built many stepped attenuators, and i have auditioned top of the line magnetic transformer based attenuators.

It is I admit quite difficult, but entirely possible to power the LDR correctly . A bit like a mirror to the best audio reproduction, LDR's directly reflect your skill at how they are powered. Piano as example of many instruments is a naturally occurring, correctly rich harmonic instrument, and it reproduces perfectly with attention to its dynamics and depth of field. One needs though to borrow from the very best analog electronic techniques to achieve correct powering the LDR.

As regards impedance matching, referring to my earlier post, there can be ability to arrange lowest volume, the opposite of conventional passives, that is to have the series pairs exhibit extremely high resistance, and to commence the shunt pair so as never to load the source impedance. There is then ability despite being passive, to suit the majority of audio systems.
I disagree, as they ( passives ) can. It requires a power amp with sensitivity matching consumer line level , and to have shunt resistances and series independent of each other. In this scenario there is more than adequate if not bountiful dynamics and drive.
 
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I’ve had the opportunity to live extensively with a number of amps including a darTZeel NHB-18NS, Kondo M1000 MkII, Robert Koda K15-EX and now a CH Precision L10, among others.

Although they were used at different times in different systems, they each excelled in emotional engagement and remain my all-time favorites.
Did I know that you now have the L10? (I may have and even commented elsewhere some time ago...apologies if I forgot...congrats! Great news! Listening notes relative to L1 (which is still listed in your signature block by the way)...and relative to K15EX?
 
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The preamp section of my (heavily modified) Pathos TT integrated amp is my all time favorite preamplifier. Obviously it doesn’t offer the features/flexibility of a dedicated chassis preamp. However given the attributes of the unique “Inpol” output circuitry, the preamp section is a key determining factor of the amp’s stellar performance. Much has been written over the years about the timbral accuracy and natural musicality of the Pathos TT. Since the Inpol output circuitry has virtually no mechanism for adding distortion of its own, and passes through the sonic signature of the tube preamp section almost unadulterated, the amp could not be superb without the preamp section being superb.

From the original Absolute Sound review:

"......The Inpol circuit, matched with the appropriate speaker load, is in fact nearly distortionless below clipping simply because it lacks any mechanism for producing distortion. It magnifies the driver and replicates the driver's signature spectrum of residual distortions. And that's why it is so transparent to the tube preceeding it....".
 
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The entire preamp concept has been fascinating to me since the days preamp voltage gain became optional.

In many systems current gain/impedance matching is also optional, i.e. a simple resistive attenuator can work perfectly.
Conventional passives Yes can be tailored to not adversely load the source component, Most passives though don't take the next step sadly being reliant on way over simplistic design where usually a potentiometers fixed value, rearranges all the excitement of what is actually possible. The excitement is when the shunt element has entirely different curve to the series at the same time as being adjustable to suit expectation and the music contents realistic provision of dynamic portrayal. Yet more excitement is that when we have different curves for shunt and series, we attain far better matching to partnering equipment.
And yet some systems can be musically satisfying without an effects box. Why? In what way are they different?

Although there are very rare examples doing some of what well designed passives can achieve . I would view most run of the mill active preamps as just that "effects boxes". its a fact that when reactance is added to audio signals we kiss true audio capability goodbye, as what is added is returning audio signal a quarter wave later than it should. it cannot be reassembled to match the source. Whereas resistive attenuation just attenuates, it does not cloud the capability of the source. .

So to your question as to in what way are they passives different, IMO they allow your source component to be properly heard, which is pretty exciting I think.
 
Whilst It may sound not very objective, the active Tube Fully balanced Atma-Sphere MP-1 has been my main point of reference compared to many that have come and gone in my room, many that cost even 3 times its price tag! It is one pre-amp that gives more of everything one wants in a high-end playback system.
 
Whilst It may sound not very objective, the active Tube Fully balanced Atma-Sphere MP-1 has been my main point of reference compared to many that have come and gone in my room, many that cost even 3 times its price tag! It is one pre-amp that gives more of everything one wants in a high-end playback system.

Just wanted to say that you have a nice list of gear that you distribute!

What speakers do you use personally?
 
Iv had Various Speakers come and gone in the past 28 years; the one i like at the moment is the 16ohms Classic Audio Loudspeaker Field Coils with OTL Amplifiers. It can handle anything you throw at it with ease and feels relaxed even at high volumes.

Its just musical; to my ears, i no longer think about the electronics; the music flows in the room.
 
I would view most run of the mill active preamps as just that "effects boxes". i
No argument here. Choosing an active preamp that does not really mess up transparency is darn difficult. Yet, many seem happy to trade ultimate transparency for a bit more musicality. Does it always need to be a tradeoff between the two?
 
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So, why insist on an extra box, provided the reason is not input switching?

I have two hypotheses.

1. The benefits are due to the added isolation. An interim stage with separate power and an added degree of rf reduction.

2. It's an effects box and a good blend of various effects is musically beneficial.

Perhaps it is a combination of both but wth a bias towards 2.

Here are some observations.

Not many seem to like a good resistive attenuator, per example a ladder made from a Shallco switch and z-foil resistors. This has practically no measurable distortion and microphony and with lowish resistor values, very low noise.

What is universally liked is either an active gain stage, or a high distortion passive attenuator, per example magnetic, having all sorts of distortion mechanisms, especially at low frequencies, or based on photo resistors, which of course have a rich harmonic spectrum.
As Einstein put it,

Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler
Your hypotheses are incorrect. Here's what is going on (sorry for the long post):

A passive system can be too simple- and is highly system dependent. You have to be very careful about cables, output impedances of sources and input impedances of amps. A common problem is anything less than full volume results in a loss of impact, frequently more noticeable in the bass.

A preamp thus has four functions, two of which a passive cannot provide:
1) provide input switching
2) provide volume and balance control
3) provide any needed gain (very handy if you are running a tape or LP system)
4) control the effects of the interconnect cables (if you've ever auditioned cables and heard a difference between them, you know what I'm talking about).

Of these, 4) is least understood, even by preamp designers. And we have a multi billion dollar/year cable industry here in the US that thrives on this ignorance.

Personally I find it annoying to audition cables to get the 'right' one. The technology to prevent interconnect cable artifacts was laid down in the late 1940s and its only been the need for cheap home audio equipment in the 1950s that it was not adopted in the home as well. I am talking about the balanced line system, without which the golden age of stereo would never have flowered. This is because to run a 50 or 100 foot long microphone cable to get the microphones perfectly placed needs an interconnect cable that won't color the sound. The transformers needed are why this system wasn't used in the home- transformers are expensive.

Now Robert Fulton is the guy who back in the 1970s started the whole high end audio cable business. I knew him and it really rankled that I could hear his interconnect cable actually sounding better than the average fare at the time.

But plain and simple its throwing money at the problem rather than expertise. Plus the recording companies and prior to that, the phone company, had already provided the expertise that eliminated interconnect cable problems, but as I said it was 'too expensive' for the home.

These days it is not. High end audio is all about how good it can get and isn't driven by cost- its driven by intent.

Of course the balanced line system, unlike single-ended RCA cables, has a connection standard. These days its known as AES48. In addition to AES48, the balanced line system is also low impedance. In the old days, the 600 Ohm standard came from the spacing of conductors in free air; those three wires you see on older telephone poles (these days more likely seen on back 2-lane hiways). Those three wires are the inverted, non-inverted connections plus ground. Although the 600 Ohm bit has gone the way in studio gear, input impedances are still kept low to help swamp out cable artifact (caused by capacitance and its dielectrics as well as inductance).

Most preamps I've seen that are balanced do not support AES48 and they certainly aren't low output impedance (I've seen some that can't drive less than 30KOhms!). To support AES48 the source can't reference ground in any way. In the old days this was ususally done with a line transformer with no center tap (its a common myth that to do balanced line you need a center tap on a transformer to do it). A center tap reduces Common Mode Rejection Ratio and opens the equipment up to ground loops, the prevention of which is also one of the goals of the balanced line system. The transformer also allows for low impedance operation.

Because the balanced line standard is rarely supported in high end audio to this day, you get this rather silly conversation about which is better, single-ended or balanced. That would never happen if the balanced connection was properly implemented.

Here are some tenants of the balanced standard:
1) the source does not reference ground (examples include phono cartridges and tape heads)
2) the non-inverting output of pin 2 is not generated with respect to ground, its generated with respect to pin 3 which is the inverting output. This can be satisfied by the secondary winding of an output transformer that merely has its connections to pin 2 and 3 of the XLR output, with pin 1 (ground) being the chassis.
3) the signal travels in a twisted pair in a cable, with a shield (the latter being tied to pin 1).
4) the impedance to ground of either connection will be the same. This is why transformers can work so well, since its impedance to ground is near infinity. But differential amplifiers can be used as inputs with impedances to ground that are considerably lower; what's important here is that CMRR (Common Mode Rejection Ratio) be kept high.
5) the source impedance and the input impedances are all kept low- at a bare minimum the source should be a low impedance and should be able to drive 1 or 2 KOhms with no worries.

Common problems with balanced line equipment in high end audio:
1) the RCA outputs are connected to the XLR connections used as outputs. IOW the RCA connection is simply one of the XLR output pins. This means that the XLR outputs, pins 2 and 3 are referencing ground. This opens the circuit up to ground loops since ground currents are not ignored. This also means that the construction of the interconnect cable might be a lot more important (hence also more expensive). If such a connection is used, using both pin 2 and pin 3 together will yield 6dB greater output since the output voltage is doubled. In a proper balanced line connection this does not happen (another common myth debunked here)!

2) the output impedance of the source (for example, a preamp) is high. This means it can only drive high impedances as well. Remember that 600 Ohm thing I mentioned? If there is an output (male) XLR connection on the equipment, it really should be able to drive loads as low as 1 or 2KOhms.

Obviously, a passive control can't support the balanced standard. So you're stuck having to audition cables, often running shorter distances and having to carefully watch impedances to make sure the source can drive the amplifier properly with the passive inserted. Its simply too simple.

I get the whole KISS thing! If you want to do a simple system, there are two ways around this problem. The first is if you have a DAC, that the active circuitry in it includes a good volume control system and input switching, since you need a bit of gain to make a DAC work, that gain could be used with other sources too- and then make sure that its supports AES48. The second way is to build the volume control into the amplifier. You'll need a remote if running monoblocks... Neither system has won over anyone in the last 40 years of digital so don't hold your breath.

So as a result active line stages still have a role to play.
 

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