Your "World's Best Audio System" . . . 2012 Edition

[Lee]

If you’re recording large and small ensembles live to two track at 24/176 and want to enjoy them on your home system at their native resolution, I suggest you try a DAC other than the BenchMark DAC1 which, regardless of the original sample rate of the data, converts it to a datastream sampled at 110kHz.

I did some research on Benchmark and found this which appears to refer to upsampling: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2010/07/1/asynchronous-upsampling-110-khz

My understanding is that if I have a 176khz data stream (this is the rate we record classical at) then I would hear all of that back on the recent model. My thinking is that at 176khz, no upsampling is needed.

I will call my contact at Benchmark and find out more.

 

[mauidan]

I did some research on Benchmark and found this which appears to refer to upsampling: http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2010/07/1/asynchronous-upsampling-110-khz

My understanding is that if I have a 176khz data stream (this is the rate we record classical at) then I would hear all of that back on the recent model. My thinking is that at 176khz, no upsampling is needed.

I will call my contact at Benchmark and find out more.

From your link:

"we chose to downsample 186.4 kHz and 192 kHz to 110 kHz."

Their proof reader didn't correct the 186.4 khz to 176.4 khz.

Their reason:

"Every A/D and D/A conversion IC that we have tested performs better at 96 kHz than at 192 kHz. In most cases THD+N, SNR, passband ripple, and stopband attenuation are all poorer at 192 kHz than at 96 kHz. "

If you believe this, I guess you should stop recording at 176.4 khz.

 

[Lee]

Devert,

I checked on this and the article refers to the older chips. The newer chip set allows for the full sampling rate. My unit has the latest chips. The only thing I did was modification for Eichmann RCAs.

 

[Orb]

Hehe Lee,
if their latest products actually upsample/oversample above the 110kHz, this suggests to me that even Benchmark uses some interesting marketing practices , which is no different to some others I agree.
It may well be applicable to the older chips (although I know of other manufacturers-chips that could comfortably upsample/oversample beyond 110khz), but my issue is the actual wording of that web page.

BTW I am also a fan of Benchmark and also another pro digital company, but that marketing page seems a bit bad, especially as they may not be following what they said there anymore.

Cheers
Orb

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Devert,

I checked on this and the article refers to the older chips. The newer chip set allows for the full sampling rate. My unit has the latest chips. The only thing I did was modification for Eichmann RCAs.

When we reviewed the DAC1 HDR in June of 2010, we verified this issue with the company. Here is what is in the review: "All inputs are resampled to 110kHz. Benchmark’s designer gave me the full rationale for why that rate was chosen; it’s long and technical, but suffice it to say that they feel it offers the very best performance for this circuit design."

Here is the review in full: http://www.goodsound.com/index.php?...mplifier&catid=56:equipment-reviews&Itemid=37

 

[Orb]

Jeff, any idea if they still resample to 110khz?

Thanks
Orb

 

[Jeff Fritz]

Jeff, any idea if they still resample to 110khz?

Thanks
Orb

There has been no model designation change since our review a year ago, according to their website. I can't confirm anything beyond that.

 

[mauidan]

Here's another review of the latest version, the HDR from 2/23/11:

http://www.maximumtech.com/benchmark-media-systems-dac1-hdr-review

Everything still goes through a Analog Devices AD1896 sample-rate converter and the reviewer says:

"Benchmark determined that the ideal sampling rate for digital-to-analog conversions is 110kHz, so the company uses the AD1896 to convert incoming digital signals to that sampling rate: signals below that threshold are up-sampled, and signals above it are down-sampled prior to the digital-to-analog conversion by the AD1853."

 

[c1ferrari]

Illuminating post, Gary...

There are actually a number of possibilities why the exact same set-up did not work for two different people. As an exhibiting manufacturer I've encountered at least the following challenges:

1) Power. The system sounds great during set-up, but when show-time rolled around it was undynamic and sounded "hifi". The reason was that other rooms were on the same electrical circuit, and there was an exhibitor with HUGE (and I mean they were even physically huge) tube amps. The morning of the second day, the amps blew up taking the hotel circuit with it (and a nice cloud of grey smoke). When power was restored, the system sounded great. The year after this, I started demo-ing with power conditioners.

2) Audience. When I first set up rooms for the show, I set up the speakers according to what I liked, sitting alone in the room. When bodies started to fill the room, the acoustics changed and the more people who came in, the worse the sound gets. The smaller the room, the more significant additional bodies make. Now, I set the system up to be slightly bright and boomy (I have adjustable tweeter, midrange and bass gain) so that when the room is more filled up, it sounds better.

3) Seating position. Do you realize when people come into the room and take a seat, they always adjust the chair? It may be an unconscious thing, but it seems to me that by the end of the day, the seats would have shifted by 4 inches (10cm) which may affect the sound significantly especially for narrow-sweet spot speakers.

4) Listening height. Again more significant for small sweet-spot speakers. Most dynamic tweeters in use beam at frequencies with a wavelength less than twice the tweeter diameter. With ribbon tweeters, if they are long and narrow, they are line sources and dispersion vertically is significantly worse than horizontal dispersion. If the ribbon is 4" (10cm) long, if you are 4" taller or shorter than the person who did the set-up, you may find the sound dull, whereas someone in the sweet height may find it sparkling and bright.

5) Souvenir hunters. People coming in, looking for a souvenir picture and leaning against a loudspeaker to have their pictures taken. At least once per show, I've had to re-position the speakers (even when the speakers are spiked) because someone nearly knocks it over. Yes, even something as heavy as the speakers mentioned.....

6) Damaged components. Some audiophiles and reviews revel in coming in with material that "crush" systems. You know those recordings. The most famous of in the US was the 1812 Overture on Telarc. In Asia, it's Paramita with the huge drums. When one of those pieces get played, exhibitors turn the volume down, but when we don't know what it is, and the audiophile keeps asking us to turn up the volume, and then the crescendo comes and you have smoking tweeters and bent voice coils on woofers..... Even when the voice coils aren't badly bottomed so as to scrape the system can then sound worse. The year after a reviewer came in with a piece like that, spent nearly an hour in the room, and then walked away muttering "hmm..... they didn't break" and still didn't write anything about us in his show report, I redesigned all my drivers with shorter voice coil formers so that they don't actually hit bottom at maximum excursion.

7) Sabotage. I've seen people stand on my speaker cables with the edge of their heels trying to mash them (probably competitors or a jealous exhibitor from another room), and others going behind the speaker and loosen the binding post nuts (now I use bananas) or change the bass/ tweeter/ midrange adjustments on my speakers. One year, someone had smeared gunk (saliva maybe?) on the lens of the top-loading CD player I was using.

The list goes on.......

Indeed...and yet, you establish and sustain a positive model -- I esteem your resolve

 

[LL21]

If may bring up another suggestion for TWBAS, i have heard very good things about MSB digital. Their DACs are well regarded by Martin Colloms (extremely well regarded actually given that their Colloms ranking have eclipsed the Zanden full set-up and DCS rig). I am also intrigued by the MSB Transport...which was supposedly uses an Oppo 93 platform, and then is completely reconfigured to take most any digital signal input...put it to solid state buffer/re-clock, etc etc and then put it back thru several different outputs...to create the perfect translator of digital sources (of any quality) into single-digit picosecond digital signal to your DAC (or MSB DAC via i2s).

I know someone had to create a disintermediator for all these difference sources, clocks, transports, servers. This sounds like an interesting product...and one i am tempted to buy if only because i get blu-ray video from oppo, and can [supposedly!!!] stick most any digital signal thru it (good clocking or bad) and get a proper bit of digital stream to my DAC.

I normally dont go for techno mumbo-jumbo (every manufacturer has their own)...but given the Colloms ratings and comments from a few owners, i thought i would post it here for consideration.

 

[fas42]

I know someone had to create a disintermediator for all these difference sources, clocks, transports, servers. This sounds like an interesting product...and one i am tempted to buy if only because i get blu-ray video from oppo, and can [supposedly!!!] stick most any digital signal thru it (good clocking or bad) and get a proper bit of digital stream to my DAC.

I normally dont go for techno mumbo-jumbo (every manufacturer has their own)...but given the Colloms ratings and comments from a few owners, i thought i would post it here for consideration.

The intent of MSB is admirable, and it sounds like they are closer than most. It's intended to be a buffer against interference and different electrical "qualities" of digital signal in, and an easy guide to tell you how well they've succeeded is to check for comments like, "sound improved when they put the MSB Transport on a special platform, or changed the power cord feeding it". As soon as they say that, you know they've failed ...

Frank

 

[LL21]

I think failed is a harsh word...unless the definition of failure is anything other than perfection. If they have succeeded in creating a great transport that competes with MBL, Metronome and Zanden (all of which cost 20K or more)...and they are charging 5K...that seems like a pretty good success to me! And from what i have heard about their DACs, their digital products are in the reference level.

 

[fas42]

And that's fair enough, too. I only meant that term in the sense that an ideal buffer should do that very thing, "buffer" against any variation of signal quality in. If they do it better than or as good as anyone else, and at a very competitiive price, then obviously, yes, go for it!

Frank

 

[Jeff Fritz]

No big news, but a plug for my favorite forum

http://ultraaudio.com/index.php?opt...ion-process-begins&catid=25:opinion&Itemid=27

 

[LL21]

nice one!!! cannot wait...

 

[Emre Üçöz]

Here are some gears that hopefully should end up in your short list ;
Pre and Power amplification from Soulution 700 monoblocks or 710 stereo amp, Soulution 721 preamp and Soulution 750 phono preamp
For analog definetly DaVinciAudio Labs AAS Gabriel MkII and DaVinciAudio Labs Master Virtu tonearm
For speakers Tidal Sunrays+subs, Marten Design Coltrane II, Magico Q5, Lansche Audio No 4.1

 

[wizard]

Or Tidal La Assoluta.

http://www.laassoluta.com/

 

[Roysen]

I know some of the details behind the Tidal Audio La Assoluta system and it certainly would be my only choice for the best system ever assembled.

If I however should give my second best choices from other brands these would be on my short list:

Loudspeakers - Rockport Arrakis II, Magico Q5, Lansche Audio Model 8.1, Kharma Exquisite Extreme Grand, German Physiks The Gaudi MK.II, MBL 101 X-treme, Wilson Audio X-2 Alexandria Series 2, JM Lab Grande Utopia EM, The Sonus Faber.
Power Amplifiers - Goldmund Telos 3500, Sovereign Audio THE SOVEREIGN, Soulution Audio 700, darTZeel NHB-458, Gryphon Colosseum Solo, Jeff Rowland 925, Boulder 3050, Constellation Audio Herkules, Technical Brain TBP-Zero ver.2.
Preamplifier - FM Acoustics Resolution Series 268, Soulution 720, Goldmund Mimesis 22H, Boulder 2010.
Phono Preamplifier - FM Acoustics Resolution Series 223, Aeshtetix IO Eclipse, Boulder 2008, Ypsilon Electronics VPS-100, Souluton Audio 750, Vitus Audio MP-201, Constellation Audio Orion.
Digital Source - Audieeva Conbrio, Wadia 971/931/922, Constellation Audio Sirius, dCS Scarlatti, Esoteric P-01VU/G-0Rb/D-01VU, Burmester 069/111, MBL 1621A/1611F, CH Precison C1/D1, Metronome Technologie Kalista Ultimate SE, GTE Audio Trinity DAC Mk.II, APL Hifi NWO-Master, Goldmund Eidos Reference Blue LE/Mimesis 20H, Orpheus Labs Privelige Transport/Privelige DAC Mk.II, Zanden Audio 2000P/5000S, Stahl-Tek Vekhian Opus CDT/DAC, Soulution 745, Spectral Audio SDR-5000.
Analgue source - Clearaudio Statement Turntable/Statement TT-1 Tonearm/Goldfinger Statement Cartridge, Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn/Castellon/Cobra, Koetsu Coralstone Platinum, Transrotor Artus, da Vinci Audio Labs Master Reference Virtu Tonearm, Lyra Atlas Cartridge.

 

[LL21]

Hi Roysen,

Have heard quite a bit of that...agree.

 

[MylesBAstor]

I know some of the details behind the Tidal Audio La Assoluta system and it certainly would be my only choice for the best system ever assembled.

If I however should give my second best choices from other brands these would be on my short list:

Loudspeakers - Rockport Arrakis II, Magico Q5, Lansche Audio Model 8.1, Kharma Exquisite Extreme Grand, German Physiks The Gaudi MK.II, MBL 101 X-treme, Wilson Audio X-2 Alexandria Series 2, JM Lab Grande Utopia EM, The Sonus Faber.
Power Amplifiers - Goldmund Telos 3500, Sovereign Audio THE SOVEREIGN, Soulution Audio 700, darTZeel NHB-458, Gryphon Colosseum Solo, Jeff Rowland 925, Boulder 3050, Constellation Audio Herkules, Technical Brain TBP-Zero ver.2.
Preamplifier - FM Acoustics Resolution Series 268, Soulution 720, Goldmund Mimesis 22H, Boulder 2010.
Phono Preamplifier - FM Acoustics Resolution Series 223, Aeshtetix IO Eclipse, Boulder 2008, Ypsilon Electronics VPS-100, Souluton Audio 750, Vitus Audio MP-201, Constellation Audio Orion.
Digital Source - Audieeva Conbrio, Wadia 971/931/922, Constellation Audio Sirius, dCS Scarlatti, Esoteric P-01VU/G-0Rb/D-01VU, Burmester 069/111, MBL 1621A/1611F, CH Precison C1/D1, Metronome Technologie Kalista Ultimate SE, GTE Audio Trinity DAC Mk.II, APL Hifi NWO-Master, Goldmund Eidos Reference Blue LE/Mimesis 20H, Orpheus Labs Privelige Transport/Privelige DAC Mk.II, Zanden Audio 2000P/5000S, Stahl-Tek Vekhian Opus CDT/DAC, Soulution 745, Spectral Audio SDR-5000.
Analgue source - Clearaudio Statement Turntable/Statement TT-1 Tonearm/Goldfinger Statement Cartridge, Continuum Audio Labs Caliburn/Castellon/Cobra, Koetsu Coralstone Platinum, Transrotor Artus, da Vinci Audio Labs Master Reference Virtu Tonearm, Lyra Atlas Cartridge.

Hadn't heard of the Lyra Atlas? Know Jonathan and colleagues are working on a totally new cartridge design but hadn't heard that it was out yet.

While searching for the Atlas cartridge, I was shocked to find out that Allen Perkins, the long time US Lyra distributor had dropped the line and Lyra is now being distributed by AudioQuest in the US.

http://www.lyraconnoisseur.com/