Pure audio porn. Thanks for the link Neville. Those Europeans sure have the gift for industrial design.
Your "World's Best Audio System" . . . 2012 Edition
- Thread starter Jeff Fritz
- Start date
BTW, since a lot of good things have been said here about the Spectral/Wilson demo room, I felt I should draw your attention to the following on page 2:
Poor relation of the exhibition in Munich duo Wilson - Spectral.
The general view was one of the worst listening to the show. Serious air, smooth top end and amount. Listening very "hifi" in the wrong sense. Only the image, once again, was doing pretty good.
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If by saying "dont make it due to lack of dealerships", you meant "dont make it to Jeff's list", i actually think there has been mention of a lot of European products in this thread as possible contenders for Jeff's next TWBAS: Tidal, FM Acoustics, Gryphon, Sonus Faber and Goldmund to mention a few as i recall. i also imagine some would cast a vote for Soulution, Vitus (i have not heard them) or maybe the DartZeel monos.
BTW, Jeff, I have also heard the Stahl-Tek digital equipment at Audio Exotics with an all-out-assault Tidal system...the Sunray's with the two massive 6' subs...6 Tidal amps. their reference 3-stack preamp, Argentos SMREE cable everywhere and a Tripoint Spartan with various high-end silver cables with the other Tripoint equipment. It was really hard to tell what was doing what...that said, i did get a very good sense that the STahl-Tek digital is worth being considered for SOTA digital.
That would be right.
I just felt that there were lots of new brands that 'looked impressive' to make the cut. So many new designs in horns too. But I haven't heard them, and a friend who did visit was impressed with Kaiser, Lansche......and I don't know if these do make it to the American continent.
Being in Australia, we keenly watch what the US, Europe and Japan have to offer, where sometimes their market are solely local.
I think all of these has to be in play. So no borders on this at all. They can always put it on a boat or airplane!
I will certainly look into this brand.
[/QUOTE]I just felt that there were lots of new brands that 'looked impressive' to make the cut. So many new designs in horns too. But I haven't heard them, and a friend who did visit was impressed with Kaiser, Lansche......and I don't know if these do make it to the American continent. Being in Australia, we keenly watch what the US, Europe and Japan have to offer, where sometimes their market are solely local.[/QUOTE]
Sorry, something went wrong with the quote above.
I was very impressed with Kaiser in Munich. In fact, I am supposed to get the new Vivace after RMAF. If all goes according to plan.
i hear that...i have a personal bias to a certain sound, and to certain brands many of which are from a geography. On digital/some amplification...i love Zanden, Shindo, and the like... Thus, i tend to pay attention when i hear about things coming from Japan...Accuphase, AN, Shindo...case in point, Robert Koda (former Audio Note guy who has created his own elite brand). i suppose you could say i like Danish amplification...Gryphon, Vitus are two such brands both Danish and both SS class A. Speakers, i'm all-American...Wilson (only the bigger ones) and Rockport.
From Jonathan Valin’s 2011 Munich High End Show Blog:
"The Wilson Sashas driven by Spectral (Wilson? Spectral?) were a Best of Show contender from the first note I heard. Exceptionally neutral, they displayed the lightness of touch, the transparency I adore. Wonderful balanced top-to-bottom with very well-integrated low end, they were superb on a Chopin Polonaise, with just a bit of added sparkle and aggressiveness on top (which didn’t sound altogether unnatural because the piano was a Steinway). With the Spectral electronics, the Sashas were drier and more analytical than they’ve sounded with other tube and solid-state amps, and I can see where many listeners would prefer a warmer, richer presentation. Nonetheless, the Wilsons sounded quite realistic to my ear, albeit just a touch bright.
Best of Show Winner (five-way tie, in the order in which I heard them): Magico Q3 with Soulution electronics, Audio Physic Avantera with Aesthetix electronics, Raidho C1.0 with (mostly) Burmester electronics, Wilson Sasha with Spectral electronics, YG Acoustics Kipod II Signature with Ypsilon/Viola electronics"
And here's the some of the music:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ckLwY-EgcnM
Well, I guess that tastes and music habits can influence the level of appreciation of sound performance. I don't know that website, so I don't know whether it is somehow associated with brands and/or distributors. If you check the show reports on audiofederation.com you'll read very critical comments on almost every room which is not AN and the other products they distribute...
@docvale & @devert - it's just stunning to read such completely opposite opinions. Which goes to show (one more time) that when people argue, in most cases what's really at heart is pure personal preferences - basically, nothing bug subjective opinion which can be all over the map.
I think this is really relevant to this thread...
I think this is really relevant to this thread...
I think the limit that separate hi-fi from my-fi is very subtle.
According to our areas of expertise, we can know how a violin or a tenor sax should sound, or what is the difference in amplifying a Gibson Les Paul with a Marshall rather than a Mesa-Boogie. But almost none of us know how any instrument was recorded in the mastering studio.
We'll never reach a level of agreement that will remove the subjectivity in commenting the performance of an audio system.
With regards to this thread, this explains how the quest to TWBAS can be approached in several different ways.
According to our areas of expertise, we can know how a violin or a tenor sax should sound, or what is the difference in amplifying a Gibson Les Paul with a Marshall rather than a Mesa-Boogie. But almost none of us know how any instrument was recorded in the mastering studio.
We'll never reach a level of agreement that will remove the subjectivity in commenting the performance of an audio system.
With regards to this thread, this explains how the quest to TWBAS can be approached in several different ways.
If you are talking about this very situation - the Spectral/Wilson room at the Munich show - then keep in mind the feedback from various people is on the exact same set up, therefore I would not expect any such variables. If you are making a general comment, sure...
garylkoh
WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
There are actually a number of possibilities why the exact same set-up did not work for two different people. As an exhibiting manufacturer I've encountered at least the following challenges:
1) Power. The system sounds great during set-up, but when show-time rolled around it was undynamic and sounded "hifi". The reason was that other rooms were on the same electrical circuit, and there was an exhibitor with HUGE (and I mean they were even physically huge) tube amps. The morning of the second day, the amps blew up taking the hotel circuit with it (and a nice cloud of grey smoke). When power was restored, the system sounded great. The year after this, I started demo-ing with power conditioners.
2) Audience. When I first set up rooms for the show, I set up the speakers according to what I liked, sitting alone in the room. When bodies started to fill the room, the acoustics changed and the more people who came in, the worse the sound gets. The smaller the room, the more significant additional bodies make. Now, I set the system up to be slightly bright and boomy (I have adjustable tweeter, midrange and bass gain) so that when the room is more filled up, it sounds better.
3) Seating position. Do you realize when people come into the room and take a seat, they always adjust the chair? It may be an unconscious thing, but it seems to me that by the end of the day, the seats would have shifted by 4 inches (10cm) which may affect the sound significantly especially for narrow-sweet spot speakers.
4) Listening height. Again more significant for small sweet-spot speakers. Most dynamic tweeters in use beam at frequencies with a wavelength less than twice the tweeter diameter. With ribbon tweeters, if they are long and narrow, they are line sources and dispersion vertically is significantly worse than horizontal dispersion. If the ribbon is 4" (10cm) long, if you are 4" taller or shorter than the person who did the set-up, you may find the sound dull, whereas someone in the sweet height may find it sparkling and bright.
5) Souvenir hunters. People coming in, looking for a souvenir picture and leaning against a loudspeaker to have their pictures taken. At least once per show, I've had to re-position the speakers (even when the speakers are spiked) because someone nearly knocks it over. Yes, even something as heavy as the speakers mentioned.....
6) Damaged components. Some audiophiles and reviews revel in coming in with material that "crush" systems. You know those recordings. The most famous of in the US was the 1812 Overture on Telarc. In Asia, it's Paramita with the huge drums. When one of those pieces get played, exhibitors turn the volume down, but when we don't know what it is, and the audiophile keeps asking us to turn up the volume, and then the crescendo comes and you have smoking tweeters and bent voice coils on woofers..... Even when the voice coils aren't badly bottomed so as to scrape the system can then sound worse. The year after a reviewer came in with a piece like that, spent nearly an hour in the room, and then walked away muttering "hmm..... they didn't break" and still didn't write anything about us in his show report, I redesigned all my drivers with shorter voice coil formers so that they don't actually hit bottom at maximum excursion.
7) Sabotage. I've seen people stand on my speaker cables with the edge of their heels trying to mash them (probably competitors or a jealous exhibitor from another room), and others going behind the speaker and loosen the binding post nuts (now I use bananas) or change the bass/ tweeter/ midrange adjustments on my speakers. One year, someone had smeared gunk (saliva maybe?) on the lens of the top-loading CD player I was using.
The list goes on.......
(I certainly learned a lot from this; and got a nice business/product idea: power line noise generator - Reference, of course)
Edit: to get an idea of what this guy really likes, go to page 5 and search for 'Silbatone' and then again 'Bertouille'
- Reference, of course)Edit: to get an idea of what this guy really likes, go to page 5 and search for 'Silbatone' and then again 'Bertouille'
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Unbelievable that in this ever so small market of ours, people would act in such a nasty way to sabotage the growth of enjoying music.
Real eye opener Gary, thank you for sharing.
I've just gone through the 26 odd pages of this thread and it's been enjoyable. Many of you are knowledgable and long-time contributors so thanks for your input. But let's get back on topic- World's Best Audio System 2012! For my two cents, I think I've heard two in the past year that would qualify. The first is the moderators, but because he's a modest guy, he probably would never list his system here. But if you have had the pleasure of hearing Steve's system, especially with analog tape, you know what I'm talking about. I've heard countless number of people say they've never really heard a great Wilson system, or perhaps put another way, they say they've never heard the Alexandria's sound great. Not true at Steve's. Remember, the system is only as good as the room its in. Steve's Lamm based system with the Alexandria IIs in his room is simply superb. (and by the way, its was nearly as good with his paltry 18 watt Lamm's as with the present ML3's!). If this system doesn't move you, make you want to take out a second mortgage to upgrade, or have you just crap on his floor, then you are plainly deaf. Next up. Andy Rockport's personal system in Maine, which is a full boat Gryphon driven Arrakis system. I heard it last summer so I'm not sure if that iteration of the current version of Arrakis, but it was spectacular. It too, is in a fabulous and specifically engineered room that has been previously well reported. That one "world's best" system is tube based and the other SS is irrelevant. They both made music to die for and I'd gladly take any of them as a lottery prize. Honorable mention goes to Brian Flower's Alexandria II based system in DFW that is driven by top of the line Boulder gear. I've heard this system evolve from its beginnings, but when Brian converted the amp power supply to 220V few months ago, it took it to a completely different level; and one that I never thought was possible with Boulder gear. It may be still just a tad too SS for me, but make no mistake, it it too is extraordinarily great.
My dream system would be...
Richard Rives Bird custom room, TAD monitors, Technical Brain electronics, Continuum table with Lyra Titan cart, Ref 2 Phono ARC for phono amp, dcs Debussy DAC for computer audio with 27" iMac, Shunyata cables.
My future real world system I am working towards is...
My basement listening room (great acoustics!), Maggie 1.7s, REL sub, ARC Ref 150, ARC LS 27, Oppo 95 for DVD-Audio, VPI Classic 3, Benchmark DAC1 for computer audio, Sony 5400 for SACD playback, Black Cat Cables or Cardas Clear or both.
Richard Rives Bird custom room, TAD monitors, Technical Brain electronics, Continuum table with Lyra Titan cart, Ref 2 Phono ARC for phono amp, dcs Debussy DAC for computer audio with 27" iMac, Shunyata cables.
My future real world system I am working towards is...
My basement listening room (great acoustics!), Maggie 1.7s, REL sub, ARC Ref 150, ARC LS 27, Oppo 95 for DVD-Audio, VPI Classic 3, Benchmark DAC1 for computer audio, Sony 5400 for SACD playback, Black Cat Cables or Cardas Clear or both.
If you’re recording large and small ensembles live to two track at 24/176 and want to enjoy them on your home system at their native resolution, I suggest you try a DAC other than the BenchMark DAC1 which, regardless of the original sample rate of the data, converts it to a datastream sampled at 110kHz.
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