I have S7s with audio research amplification
Never heard the Q series
I also like Led Zeppelin and Beethoven
Zero Distortion: Allnic, Aesthetix, Magic Q7 mk2, Alieno, loads of carts, Vyger, Kodo Beat
- Thread starter bonzo75
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I have S7s with audio research amplification
Never heard the Q series
I also like Led Zeppelin and Beethoven
I haven't yet read the review. I had assumed that Ked discussed the sound of the Q7II and that it was an integral part of the comments and system review. No? Too bad, that is why I had wanted to read his review in the first place.
It was an analog focused review. For Magico reviews read Caesar's favorite
OK, I did not understand the focus of the piece from your title. I assume the Q7II provided a sufficiently neutral and transparent environment for you to form opinions about the source components.
Peter, I don't think Ked is a fan enough of Magicos to pass any judgement on them.
For him, it's the thrill of the chase in comparing as many analog data points in as many situations, systems and rooms, to somehow derive some objectivity in rankings.
I'm sure Ked will now say I've got that all wrong LOL.
For him, it's the thrill of the chase in comparing as many analog data points in as many situations, systems and rooms, to somehow derive some objectivity in rankings.
I'm sure Ked will now say I've got that all wrong LOL.
Close...
Slight addendum....won't say as many analog data points as possible... The last few weeks I have been able to compare some high quality valve vs SS phonos against each other...i had not formed any impressions on this front before, so for me these were quite relevant. Also, I have always been impressed by certain facets of Lyra which stand apart from other carts, and I was glad to see it deliver here with musicality.
I also know if in future I get one of these components, the host could help me with optimizing it.
Interesting post Ron. I just read it again and realized how much it applies to my current system with the Jadis and CAT tube gear...and of course the new Lyra Kleos. A friend is listening to a Koetsu Urushi Sky Blue, and while this is an excellent cartridge, he told me something very interesting. He actually prefers the sound of Lyra’s when utilized with all tube gear....and not so much if there is ss in the system.
I think he gave me some excellent advice, it’s pretty easy to add warmth to a system, but to add resolution is nowhere near as easy. So, if the cartridge lacks resolution, which in his opinion the Koetsus do to some extent...particularly in the dynamic and extreme highs compared to the Lyra’s,that’s impossible to recover, but if you want more warmth from a Lyra presentation...add and/ or modify cables and tubes.
Your post about hearing the Etna SL...which IMO certainly has the Lyra house sound, is spot on...if you heard it with an all tube system.
Koetsu urushi is possibly my least liked cart.
I don't think Etna has the house sound that either kleos and atlas have. I prefer the atlas and the atlas SL much more. The atlas SL also sounded gear in Gian's system but with the right arm. It did not sound good with the Bergmann Sindre am but with the modded SAEC made by Torqeo, on the Torqeo, it was fantastic, through the CH. But yes my choice for atlas will be a tubed phono
I don't think Etna has the house sound that either kleos and atlas have. I prefer the atlas and the atlas SL much more. The atlas SL also sounded gear in Gian's system but with the right arm. It did not sound good with the Bergmann Sindre am but with the modded SAEC made by Torqeo, on the Torqeo, it was fantastic, through the CH. But yes my choice for atlas will be a tubed phono
Will be able to confirm (or not) your opinion about AtlasSL on SAEC modded by Torqueo soon.
Tang
Ked, I believe that the Kleos and Atlas share the same basic design...and the motor. What don't you like about the Urushi?
It is quite rolled off and dead sounding to me. The only time I heard it sound nice was on an FR 66s with Arche headshell, and it had been retipped by Expert Stylus in Surrey. Some might say that makes it not a real Koetsu. They also add diamond cantilevers much cheaper than Koetsu if someone wants to try. Once the guy replaced his Allnic preamp with Soulution preamp in an all Allnic system, that Expert Stylus tipped Urushi sounded better than the Jade with diamond cantilever in the same system. The latter sounded tonally better initially, but made all LPs sound the same. The Expert Stylus tipped Urushi (Vermillion) showed differences.
I heard a couple more Urushi's in other systems and they sounded dead to me. For Koetsu you really need a FR tonearm I think. Or PM 108CY who has got 75 koetsus and has tried them on various arms.
Thanks, Ked. I think Koetsus can be a very hit or miss proposition. If you miss, that’s an expensive miss. I was seriously considering the Urushi, until I heard a Rosewood Signature that was easily blown away by the Lyra. No contest at all, imo. Rosewood Signature was veiled, lacking in top and bottom extension, had marginal imaging and just was a ‘one trick pony’....sounded ok in the midrange....even though that midrange was highly coloured.
Since the Urushi is based on this design, I am passing.
What’s even more interesting is that the US distributor is trying to make a killing on these cartridges. They can easily be sourced in Japan for half to less than half price what the distributor is asking for them in the States, and the companies in Japan are selling them at full retail! OTOH, like someone else pointed out, they do cost a fortune to ship...
Interestingly, the Lyra’s are priced similarly in Japan to here in the US....hmmm.
Since the Urushi is based on this design, I am passing.
What’s even more interesting is that the US distributor is trying to make a killing on these cartridges. They can easily be sourced in Japan for half to less than half price what the distributor is asking for them in the States, and the companies in Japan are selling them at full retail! OTOH, like someone else pointed out, they do cost a fortune to ship...
Interestingly, the Lyra’s are priced similarly in Japan to here in the US....hmmm.
1) I hear clearly a Lyra "house sound" to which all Lyras adhere except the Etna SL.
2) I have disliked the Lyra Atlas in numerous all-tube systems.
3) I disliked the Lyra Delos in the all-tube system at Audio Element.
4) I do not think a cartridge should be so lean and analytical as to require tube electronics to give it warmth and naturalness and musicality.
Problem is that many of the cartridges out there today, are imo, too veiled and warm. There is no way to bring back resolution if it isn’t there in the first place. Otoh, adding warmth to the equation isn’t that difficult, as I stated above.
Compared to my old Benz Ruby 2, the Kleos is far far more resolved, and it can now after break in, punch down deep and with tremendous dynamics;something the old Benz, good as it was, could never accomplish.
I think the loading impedance of these cartridges (Lyra’s) is absolutely crucial. I noticed that with as little as a 50 ohm difference, there is a significant difference in SQ!
I cannot say what it was in the systems that you heard that was not working, but I can say this...compared to the older Benz Ruby 2, the new design Kleos is in a totally different league, assuming of course, it is firing on all cylinders.
Ron, is it possible that when you heard the Atlas, that it wasn’t really running on all cylinders....IOW, the demonstrator(s) that showed you the cartridge hadn’t really gone to the necessary set up procedures that this particular cartridge demands...(which includes EVERYTHING I stated above).
Lastly, why do you think the Etna SL, which really should have a similar, but actually less resolving sound than the top of the line Atlas...according to my dealer, has a favorable sound to your ears....?
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So any time someone comes to a different conclusion about the sound of a component than you do the system of which the component is a part is not working? Davey, this confirms for me again that you have some odd difficulty accepting the fact that some people come to a different sonic conclusion than you do.
In these systems there was nothing that was "not working."
I have preferred some other cartridge to the Lyra Atlas consistently in about a dozen systems. Which is more likely:
A) a dozen different systems had problems with their Lyra Atlases, or
B) you refuse to accept that the Lyra Atlas is not my cup of tea?
I do not take your dealer's opinion as gospel.
I think it is pretty widely agreed that, for whatever reason, the Etna SL is noticeably less lean and analytical than the Atlas. I have no idea why this is.
For example, a friend of mine who has both cartridges decommissioned his Atlas in favor of the Etna SL because he found the Etna SL to sound less lean and analytical.
Or conversely you will not accept the circumstance that what you heard was an incorrectly set up cartridge- and refuse to conclude any other possibility.
You stated that you have heard this cartridge on several occasions...is it not possible in your experience that all of those occasions, that the set up could have been faulty...not in your realm of experience, is that right?
If you could state to me that you knew enough to absolutely conclude that the set up was done 100% correctly in each of your examples, and you still failed to like the cartridge, that is one thing...unfortunately I don’t believe that you can stipulate that.
Ron, is it possible that numerous people immensely enjoy this cartridge ( the Lyra Atlas), and therefore because you don’t, they are all wrong...
In other words the inverse to your point to me, just saying.
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Thanks, Ked. I think Koetsus can be a very hit or miss proposition. If you miss, that’s an expensive miss. I was seriously considering the Urushi, until I heard a Rosewood Signature that was easily blown away by the Lyra. No contest at all, imo. Rosewood Signature was veiled, lacking in top and bottom extension, had marginal imaging and just was a ‘one trick pony’....sounded ok in the midrange....even though that midrange was highly coloured.
Since the Urushi is based on this design, I am passing.
What’s even more interesting is that the US distributor is trying to make a killing on these cartridges. They can easily be sourced in Japan for half to less than half price what the distributor is asking for them in the States, and the companies in Japan are selling them at full retail! OTOH, like someone else pointed out, they do cost a fortune to ship...
Interestingly, the Lyra’s are priced similarly in Japan to here in the US....hmmm.
That is exactly how I think the urushi and the rosewood signature sounds
Interesting Ked, we obviously have the same thoughts on the SQ reproduction. Yet, here's what is even more interesting...there was a time ( albeit probably twenty years ago or more) that the Rosewood Signature was considered as SOTA in cartridge sound. I seem to remember HP alluding to this cartridge as being his then current reference.
Today, the basic design and the motor of all of the Koetsu's is identical to what has been under the hood for decades! The various bodies are what i believe one is paying for....because a small piece of sculpted Onyx or Coralstone has to be far more costly than a sculpted piece of Rosewood...
along with a huge increase in price for Platinum magnets ( BTW, anyone actually know what the heck these are....alnico, somarium cobalt, neodymium- something else not on the periodic table, LOL) ( according to my friend, who manufactures magnets, the neodymium magnet is the strongest of the magnets that he knows of....!!)
What’s even more interesting is that the US distributor is trying to make a killing on these cartridges. They can easily be sourced in Japan for half to less than half price what the distributor is asking for them in the States, and the companies in Japan are selling them at full retail! OTOH, like someone else pointed out, they do cost a fortune to ship...
Interestingly, the Lyra’s are priced similarly in Japan to here in the US....hmmm.
This sounds similar to the price of Top Wing cartridge in US. I dont know who or if this is the same distributor or not. You can just imagine the kind of margin they are getting with other products they sell. Good luck to US consumers.
Tang
