Comparison of some Cartridges in the 4k segment, MKII : Etsuro, Hana, Benz, Allnic, Kiseki, Phasemation

[shakti]

Hi Shakti,
Great thread.
I was interested in your comments about the Etsuro cobolt Vs the Bordeaux, and the fact that you find the cobolt the more balanced in the creation of voices - could you expand on this?

similarly, if be interested in your thoughts of the Bordeaux Vs the Gold?

By the way what load are you using on the Cobolt and Gold.... I’m using 100 ohms on my Bordeaux same as my Koetsu.

looking forward to your next comparisons..
Simon

My personal Etsuro Bordeaux had a strong focus on voices, even coming that time from Koetsu, this was too much for me. Midrange was too pronounced. But I only know this individual example, may be it was "special" and the current production Bordeaux is balanced more in line with Blue and Gold. In the time of the Bordeaux I had to access to a Gold, so no direct comparison possible.

As load I am listening to Etsuro in the 30 to 40 ohm range,
(around 40 with step up, 30 on my former Boulder 2008)

 

[shakti]

Today I played around with different tonearms. As the Allnic Cartridges do remind me in terms of energy transfer and needed stability of the cart chassis / headshell / tonearm assembly, I fitted the Amber into my SME 3012R Tonearm (original SME tonearmcable).

That was a great idea, the Amber performance in conjunction with SME 3012R was much better balanced,
than with the former used Sorane tonearm. The little analytical, detail oriented character is fully gone, weight and substance is added instead.
It seems (again), that the SME 3012R tonearm can handle carts with a defined damping demand.

(Before I had the Clearaudio Titanium fitted to the SME 3012R, but it looked like, that the Titanium prefers a tonearm with less damping to gain a vital music reproduction, now given by a FR64s tonearm)

For me it is always a surprise, in which regard a cartridge can change the character, can improve the overall performance, if fitted into a tonearm with a 100% match. Effective mass and compliance match are to my experience to the only or even most important factors to get the best out of it.

I should try to ask the manufacturer, which tonearm was used to design/ voice the cartridges in production,
will make the correct choice for the tonearm potentially much more easy

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Interesting read and findings.
Attn: Shakti

How did you particularly find the Etsuro Bordeaux? You mentioned too strong in vocals and midrange... then perhaps the later versions of Bordeaux are more balanced...

I'm looking at two carts atm,
Etsuro
Sound Smith

The only thing with the Etsuri is I feel the output is too low, around 0.3mv, given that my CJ phonostage is a high gain version but reaches only 55dB. It matches perfectly with the Benz Micro Glider with an output of 0.8mv.

Since I just recently upgraded the phonostage to the Max version and it sounds superb, I really don't want to upgrade the phonostage again, I feel it's unnecessary to do so.

If the Etsuro is too low an output then I'll drop it.
May consider the Sound Smith instead.

Any suggestions?
Cheers mate, RJ

 

[morricab]

Today I played around with different tonearms. As the Allnic Cartridges do remind me in terms of energy transfer and needed stability of the cart chassis / headshell / tonearm assembly, I fitted the Amber into my SME 3012R Tonearm (original SME tonearmcable).

That was a great idea, the Amber performance in conjunction with SME 3012R was much better balanced,
than with the former used Sorane tonearm. The little analytical, detail oriented character is fully gone, weight and substance is added instead.
It seems (again), that the SME 3012R tonearm can handle carts with a defined damping demand.

(Before I had the Clearaudio Titanium fitted to the SME 3012R, but it looked like, that the Titanium prefers a tonearm with less damping to gain a vital music reproduction, now given by a FR64s tonearm)

For me it is always a surprise, in which regard a cartridge can change the character, can improve the overall performance, if fitted into a tonearm with a 100% match. Effective mass and compliance match are to my experience to the only or even most important factors to get the best out of it.

I should try to ask the manufacturer, which tonearm was used to design/ voice the cartridges in production,
will make the correct choice for the tonearm potentially much more easy




View attachment 78920View attachment 78921

Any findings on the Kiseki?

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Oh! Yes I forgot that one as well. The Kiseki is also available at one of our Aus importers for a fair price. Almost within the same range as the Etsuro, however the Sound Smith being the most expensive of the lot. I guess USD currency conversion contributes to much of that price variance.

They are within my budget and I know with a little favour it will be offered slightly lower, so that's a good thing to know on their part.

What are your thoughts between these three?
How would you roughly rank them in order, if you have to, and I'm looking at overall performance, one that ticks all the boxes, not one that excells in just one area.

Kiseki, Etsuro and Sound Smith... mmm looks like a few demos are in order. Our lockdown is over, might as well begin the venture!

I do know that at the end of the day, these choices are totally based on personal preference and individual system set-up. Not one's ever going to be the same or even near identical. I think I'll have to try these out for myself and be the final judge. However, it's certainly good just to get an idea first, use as guidelines...

Any thoughts, suggestions, do let us know.
Cheers, RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

I am absolutely falling in love with my new koetsu cartridge.it’s taken my tt to a new level.I have never heard cd sound as good as this.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Today I played around with different tonearms. As the Allnic Cartridges do remind me in terms of energy transfer and needed stability of the cart chassis / headshell / tonearm assembly, I fitted the Amber into my SME 3012R Tonearm (original SME tonearmcable).

That was a great idea, the Amber performance in conjunction with SME 3012R was much better balanced,
than with the former used Sorane tonearm. The little analytical, detail oriented character is fully gone, weight and substance is added instead.
It seems (again), that the SME 3012R tonearm can handle carts with a defined damping demand.

(Before I had the Clearaudio Titanium fitted to the SME 3012R, but it looked like, that the Titanium prefers a tonearm with less damping to gain a vital music reproduction, now given by a FR64s tonearm)

For me it is always a surprise, in which regard a cartridge can change the character, can improve the overall performance, if fitted into a tonearm with a 100% match. Effective mass and compliance match are to my experience to the only or even most important factors to get the best out of it.

I should try to ask the manufacturer, which tonearm was used to design/ voice the cartridges in production,
will make the correct choice for the tonearm potentially much more easy




View attachment 78920View attachment 78921

Excellent well done.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

Well it looks like those Kiseki, Etsuro and the like are out! They all have very low output, less than 0.3mv. Hence, I would have to get the matching transformers or get the higher gain version of CJ's TEA1 phono-preamp.

That's something I'm not inclined to do, especially after just upgrading the TEA2SE to the top line Max version. So I guess I'll have to look at those carts with either 0.5 to 0.8mv output or higher. CJ's chief tech JF himself said nothing under 0.5mv is going to provide top level dynamics or transient control. A matching step-up transformer will allow that extra gain.

Again, adding more boxes and connections is something I'm not interested in. It not only adds more connections but also adds in colourations to the original signal.

So as for the next cartridge of choice, I'll have to follow the specs closely in order to get that gain structure right. I've heard quite a few analog rigs where people have spent an awful lot but simply cannot get that gain structure quite right. It's an art form and a balancing act. When either gain has a mis-match, oh dear does it fall apart... not good in terms of true Hi Fidelity.

One thing for sure is, there's definitely some magic in those grooves!

Cheers to all, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof!! RJ

 

[Addicted to hifi]

My mc board is in my preamp which eliminates interconnects and has adjustable gain.

 

[shakti]

During the last days I heard mainly with the Kiseki Black Heart cartridge.

The most of my cartridges are between 10g and 14g weight, so the integration of the 6g Kiseki Black Heart was on some tonearms only possible after the exchange to a more heavy headshell.

I preferred the Kiseki in standard to a little damped headshells, it seems that the black wood body is working well in this regard and no special requirements for a matching headshell do exist.

As the Kiseki has a high DC resistance I gave to the cart comparison my Zanden 1200 MkIII a try, the Etsuro was connected on the low impedance input, the Kiseki was using the high impedance input, so both had a perfect match.

In comparison to the Etsuro Cobalt Blue, my reference point, the Kiseki provides more details, while still being on the slightly warmer side of the tonal balance.

While the Etsuro is focussing on the musical flow of the music, the Kiseki can give you a more realistic picture of the individual instrument as such.
I will try to use the snare drum as an example. The Etsuro is focussing on the energy the drummer is going to the individual snare punch, listening to the Kiseki will even show, if the punches are done in cycles on the snare.

In the regard the Kiseki has similar talents, than the Allnic carts, but without the tendency of being a litte analytical over all.

Specially on classic recording this little more on resolution helps to dive deeper into the music.

A regular visiting friend of mine who is following up this comparison bought finally a Kiseki Black Heart, as this cart has become his personal favorite on his Technics SL 1000 MkII. And it looks like, that I will follow his decision on my personal Technics, as the very light Kiseki weight fits perfectly to the Technics EPA 100 tonearm. The little warmer picture of the music blends very good with the little leaner reproduction of the Technics obsidian chassis. Indeed a nice pairing.

 

[shakti]

The most difficult to judge cartridge was the Hana Umami Red. My reference point, the Etsuro Cobalt Blue and the Hana cartridge are manufactured at the same place, possibly the same specialist is even doing both of them. In comparison to the other cartridges, the Hana played most close to the Etsuro voicing, but less inspiring. In my set up with the Sorane SA-1.2 tonearm I liked both of them, but the Hana was in direct comparison always a little like the "younger brother" of the Etsuro. You can hear, that they are from the same family, but not at the same level.

The differences are not that big, so it is possible, knowing the possible variation coming from selection, another pair would make a different impression.

If you concentrate to the differences, I would say, that the Hana has a little richer body, a little more weight, the Etsuro a wider and deeper stage.

The Ebony wood insert in the body of the Hana Umami Red might case this difference in comparison to the pure alloy approach of the Etsuro body.

 

[Big Dog RJ]

At the moment, the most significant thing that's giving me plenty of depth, 4D imaging and a massive soundstage with that enveloping warmth is this!

Just gotta love it! A big woof to all and oh! Most of all, enjoy those fine tunes!
Cheers, RJ

 

[morricab]

The most difficult to judge cartridge was the Hana Umami Red. My reference point, the Etsuro Cobalt Blue and the Hana cartridge are manufactured at the same place, possibly the same specialist is even doing both of them. In comparison to the other cartridges, the Hana played most close to the Etsuro voicing, but less inspiring. In my set up with the Sorane SA-1.2 tonearm I liked both of them, but the Hana was in direct comparison always a little like the "younger brother" of the Etsuro. You can hear, that they are from the same family, but not at the same level.

The differences are not that big, so it is possible, knowing the possible variation coming from selection, another pair would make a different impression.

If you concentrate to the differences, I would say, that the Hana has a little richer body, a little more weight, the Etsuro a wider and deeper stage.

The Ebony wood insert in the body of the Hana Umami Red might case this difference in comparison to the pure alloy approach of the Etsuro body.

So which of these cartridges are you now finding you prefer?

 

[shakti]

So which of these cartridges are you now finding you prefer?

If I choose it by the judgement of hours in use, I do prefer the Etsuro Cobalt Blue, followed by the Kiseki Blackheart.

 

[tony22]

@shakti , did i miss it, or have you not yet left comments on the Benz?

 

[Shindomaniaco]

How did the Benz LPS compare?

 

[Addicted to hifi]

Welcome shindomaniaco to wbf.

 

[Addicted to hifi]

These are all great sounding cartridges but some what different sounding to each other.

 

[shakti]

How did the Benz LPS compare?

Will write about it, but in Europe is summer time and I am for a kind of 3 month journey with my camper around, no turntable installed

 

[fjn04]

What's that headshell on the Allnic cartridges? Yamamoto boxwood? I also found that a lighter headshell was a good match with Allnic Rose.
Pity you couldn't add one of the MSL cartridges in the list, I'm having super results with the MSL Hyper Eminent which would fit in this price bracket I think.

montesquieu...I sent you a PM. Thanks -Don