Zero Distortion: Dalby Record Weight

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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#41
A very fun report, Kedar! Thank you!

Kedar, Bill: A whole 'nother vinyl playback variable? Record clamps -- different brands; different sounding models by the same brand?

So, after carefully setting up the turntable stand, the turntable on the stand, the tonearm on the turntable, the cartridge in the tonearm TIMES one or two or three or four completely separate record-playing systems TIMES two or three or four tonearms per separate record-playing system, THEN, depending on musical genre preference, mood, and alcoholic versus non-alcoholic beverage of choice, selecting which cartridge on which tonearm on which record-player, THEN selecting which phono stage to use . . . THEN adjusting VTA for the thickness of the vinyl, and THEN selecting the brand of model of record clamp?

Are we sure that being able (or required) to make a dozen different decisions before dropping the needle is fun? o_O
My friend had his brinkmann on the wall shelf. Recently he put it on a normal hifi rack due to some room adjustment. The Dalby is more important.

But why does a number of variables in analog surprise you, that was always the case. What you use to align your tonearm, which head shell, which screws, which cleaner, destat, etc it never stops. Some stuff has more substitutes than others
 
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Folsom

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#42
Hey,

Well I have made copious listening notes of the various different timber varieties and their qualitative sound. I have also tried to see whether applying combinations of woods can lead to a hybrid type sound. I tested different mechanisms of coupling the spindle from bare wood to bearings and even a proboscis style internal clamping mech. I have tested ball bearings in combinations, locations and materials. I have tried different total weights.

I have several more ideas and concepts to test next.
Any general notes for us on sound to function of types you've made?
 

PeterA

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Dec 7, 2011
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#43
Any general notes for us on sound to function of types you've made?
Folsom, do you think we could transfer this information to different systems given how different everybody’s turntables cartridges and tone arms are? Even platter material and thickness might likely affect the sound. I think we’re basically talking about resonances.

Why would there be so many different designs from one designer?
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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#44
Folsom, do you think we could transfer this information to different systems given how different everybody’s turntables cartridges and tone arms are? Even platter material and thickness might likely affect the sound. I think we’re basically talking about resonances.

Why would there be so many different designs from one designer?
IME with record weights their character doesn't change with turntables what comes into play is actually the mass of the weight that matters depending on the turntable. This is where one needs to experiment and understand what's desired. IMO the function of the record weight isn't changing the sound quality to the extent mentioned in this thread, it should only bring a little more focus to the sound. Otherwise like anything else a component with strong audible character also has strong coloration.

david
 

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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#45
Folsom, do you think we could transfer this information to different systems given how different everybody’s turntables cartridges and tone arms are? Even platter material and thickness might likely affect the sound. I think we’re basically talking about resonances.

Why would there be so many different designs from one designer?
Hi Peter,

Yes I am fairly sure you can transfer the findings. The only reason I say that is that the sonic signature of the different hardwoods as reflected in the clamp also seems to be reflected in isolation shelves, footers and even horns in my experiments. Clearly every system will react slightly differently but I strongly believe that the general qualitative profile will transfer across.

Here is a platform that I had been prototyping using some of the principles - bearings go into the indentations. This uses a sandwich of mahogany and beech with tensioning underneath:
508AF3A9-7CA0-4CB8-9FB7-66A71AED04C8.jpeg
 

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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#46
IME with record weights their character doesn't change with turntables what comes into play is actually the mass of the weight that matters depending on the turntable. This is where one needs to experiment and understand what's desired. IMO the function of the record weight isn't changing the sound quality to the extent mentioned in this thread, it should only bring a little more focus to the sound. Otherwise like anything else a component with strong audible character also has strong coloration.

david
Hi David,

Yes mass of the actual clamp is really important and clearly the optimum will vary depending on TT for which you’ll need to experiment as you rightly say.

The resonance profiles of the hardwood also have their distinct characters. A solid Indian rosewood clamp for example is extremely laid back and smooth (too much so in fact) whereas a solid maple of same proportions is almost too hard sounding bordering on aggressive.
 

Folsom

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Oct 26, 2015
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#47
Folsom, do you think we could transfer this information to different systems given how different everybody’s turntables cartridges and tone arms are? Even platter material and thickness might likely affect the sound. I think we’re basically talking about resonances.

Why would there be so many different designs from one designer?
IME it’s useful information but sometimes you have to assess how it works by accounting for other things in systems.

As of recently I’ve found some interesting things with turntable platter/mat stuff.
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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#48
Hi David,

Yes mass of the actual clamp is really important and clearly the optimum will vary depending on TT for which you’ll need to experiment as you rightly say.

The resonance profiles of the hardwood also have their distinct characters. A solid Indian rosewood clamp for example is extremely laid back and smooth (too much so in fact) whereas a solid maple of same proportions is almost too hard sounding bordering on aggressive.
Hi Bill,
Even metal weights of varying density, materials and shapes have distinct characters which as you experienced does not change from tt to tt.

david
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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#49
IME it’s useful information but sometimes you have to assess how it works by accounting for other things in systems.

As of recently I’ve found some interesting things with turntable platter/mat stuff.
Mats have a major impact on the sound of turntables, I would say as much as the platter materials and design itself.

david
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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#50
Thanks for the reply Mik, Iam quite envious you have the mk11. I have had mine now for nearly 30 years and still learning from it ! Ive had the kuzma airline mounted on it for quite a while now, its sings like never before! I could not get the T3f tamed, you know what I mean. I made up a corian armboard with sorbathene supports where you can adjust the levelling by the attached allen bolts.
I can relate to your experience on taming the T3F. It took me over 25 years to do that! I've taken graduate courses in molecular biology that were easier to figure out.
 

Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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#51
Hi Bill,
Even metal weights of varying density, materials and shapes have distinct characters which as you experienced does not change from tt to tt.

david
I can well imagine tbh. It is on my to do list to get the engineers lathe going and make some metal parts constrained with the wood.
 

ddk

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May 19, 2013
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#53
I can well imagine tbh. It is on my to do list to get the engineers lathe going and make some metal parts constrained with the wood.
Audio Technica makes two fairly inexpensive record weights that I find work very well with a variety of turntables. The main difference is mass again. It's worth at least getting the basic one, AT-618 as a reference while working on your own, it's really very good!

https://www.amazon.co.uk/audio-tech...refix=audio+technics+record+w,aps,260&sr=8-18

david
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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#55
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Audiophile Bill

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Mar 23, 2015
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#56
when do you guys have time to enjoy the sound
some of this comparing and evaluating seems manic
at a certain point one has to put one´s foot down and simply enjoy
Is a disease, Leif. A bad disease lol.
 

108CY

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May 4, 2013
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#57
Thanks for the reply Mik, Iam quite envious you have the mk11. I have had mine now for nearly 30 years and still learning from it ! Ive had the kuzma airline mounted on it for quite a while now, its sings like never before! I could not get the T3f tamed, you know what I mean. I made up a corian armboard with sorbathene supports where you can adjust the levelling by the attached allen bolts.
I used first T3F 36 years ago it belonged to my father I was just 13 years of age I still admire the arm in many ways but does have its problems but have learnt in that time it can be a tremendous sounding tonearm just takes a lot and I mean a lot of patience. I have used the air tangent reference on the Goldmund with excellent success it was a great experience superb midrange together with air and space it was a enveloping sound, the t3f had a wonderful sense of drive and energy and boldness with tremendous scale. I have several airlines around I did try one on the Goldmund some time back it again was highly enjoyable combination I really liked the way it did nuance and very detailed.
 
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christoph

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Dec 12, 2015
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#58
I can relate to your experience on taming the T3F. It took me over 25 years to do that! I've taken graduate courses in molecular biology that were easier to figure out.
:D
 

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