IME, the current crop of Jadis amps that are the mk2 versions are in a different league than the earlier models.
Zero Distortion: Magic M3 with Jadis 200, Techdas AF3 and AF1
- Thread starter bonzo75
- Start date
As was a full FM and a full Burm system. I do not like the latter, except for the phono, which Gary loves.
Honestly, I think I would prefer the smaller room, LOL.
Everyone does, EXCEPT for Architects/desingers AND most wives
JA stated in the review that the way a dipole works in a room may change the validity of a standard frequency response measurement. Look at Herb Reichert's article on moving coils in the April Stereophile where the Alta Hestias are in the reference system.
Anti sets on cones ... of course everyone is entitled to his own opinion and taste ... so you are as well ... but your opinions are in my view quite often (way) too apodictic, Kedar.
I know you are not a real fan of cones loudspeakers (if I understand you correctly the Zellatons are an exception) but I (just like Morricab apparently) have heard in my life many cones loudspeakers sounding outstanding with set amps; but of course you need a good amp/speaker match. Power hungry (cones) loudspeakers with serious impedance drops should naturally not be matched with set amps.
Once my Tripoint Emperor master reference mk ii ground cables are burned in, come around and have a serious listen to the Tidal La Assoluta/Kondo Kagura/g-1000 combination (no vinyl up and running on short notice though; digital as well as tape sources will be available).
It might change your audio perspective, who knows?
I know you are not a real fan of cones loudspeakers (if I understand you correctly the Zellatons are an exception) but I (just like Morricab apparently) have heard in my life many cones loudspeakers sounding outstanding with set amps; but of course you need a good amp/speaker match. Power hungry (cones) loudspeakers with serious impedance drops should naturally not be matched with set amps.
Once my Tripoint Emperor master reference mk ii ground cables are burned in, come around and have a serious listen to the Tidal La Assoluta/Kondo Kagura/g-1000 combination (no vinyl up and running on short notice though; digital as well as tape sources will be available).
It might change your audio perspective, who knows?
No SETs on cones? Don’t tell that to this happy owner of 70W Class A 211 tubes on 101dB high efficiency full range driver spkrs, a match made in Heaven, even in a space as large as mine, 800 sq ft/5500 cub ft.
Rudolph, maybe after Ked visits you to be put straight, he’ll visit me. Between us I’m sure we can banish such inaccurate opinions from him.
Rudolph, maybe after Ked visits you to be put straight, he’ll visit me. Between us I’m sure we can banish such inaccurate opinions from him.
Nice report Kedar. I heard those Altas about two months ago down at Rhapsody. Yes, Bob is a nice guy and a pleasure to visit. He gets excellent sound in that room. Sadly, I had hoped to hear the M3 but it was not set up. I did hear the Alta though with the AF3. Good sound.
This is a very interesting report to me, personally, because I have heard the M3s twice now (once at Rhapsody -- with the same Kagura set-up Kedar first heard there), and because the JA200 Mk. II is my top push-pull contender, and because I like the TechDAS AF1 and AF3 turntables.
Except for a massively heavy suspension-less turntable like the American Sound I would like to put a suspension-less turntable on some sort of suspension system or isolation platform. An AF3 Premium on a Herzan might be a very interesting way to go and might get near SOTA sound for a non-SOTA total price.
I wish we could somehow, somewhere compare directly Alieno LTD 250 to Jadis JA200 Mk. II!
I think your "no SETs on cones" is too broad. I understand where you are coming from, but, at least for the types of music I like primarily, I think it is too broad.
We have learned that there is a certain type of magic when the cone system is sensitive enough to achieve big "jump factor" (was Jonathan Valin truly the first reviewer to use this expression? -- I don't like having to give him credit for it) and big dynamics with SET power. For me, personally, Lamm ML3 on high-sensitivity big Wilsons, SET NAT on Zu and Absolare SETs on Rockports proves this to my satisfaction. At least for my favorite types of music (vocals, simple acoustic accompaniment, jazz) SETs on high-sensitivity cones totally works for me.
Also, I think that view is too broad with respect to those specific systems where the SET amplifier is freed from seeing a low-frequency range load, such as with bi-amping or otherwise with a high-pass crossover to the SET.
On the other hand you have a higher standard or, if not a higher standard, the same standard but with music which is more challenging for SETs on cones: your big symphonic classical works. At a symphony orchestra aficionado level you still might be correct. I just don't know with your big classical pieces.
PS: Kudos to Bob for having the patience to entertain you a second time!
Except for a massively heavy suspension-less turntable like the American Sound I would like to put a suspension-less turntable on some sort of suspension system or isolation platform. An AF3 Premium on a Herzan might be a very interesting way to go and might get near SOTA sound for a non-SOTA total price.
I wish we could somehow, somewhere compare directly Alieno LTD 250 to Jadis JA200 Mk. II!
I think your "no SETs on cones" is too broad. I understand where you are coming from, but, at least for the types of music I like primarily, I think it is too broad.
We have learned that there is a certain type of magic when the cone system is sensitive enough to achieve big "jump factor" (was Jonathan Valin truly the first reviewer to use this expression? -- I don't like having to give him credit for it) and big dynamics with SET power. For me, personally, Lamm ML3 on high-sensitivity big Wilsons, SET NAT on Zu and Absolare SETs on Rockports proves this to my satisfaction. At least for my favorite types of music (vocals, simple acoustic accompaniment, jazz) SETs on high-sensitivity cones totally works for me.
Also, I think that view is too broad with respect to those specific systems where the SET amplifier is freed from seeing a low-frequency range load, such as with bi-amping or otherwise with a high-pass crossover to the SET.
On the other hand you have a higher standard or, if not a higher standard, the same standard but with music which is more challenging for SETs on cones: your big symphonic classical works. At a symphony orchestra aficionado level you still might be correct. I just don't know with your big classical pieces.
PS: Kudos to Bob for having the patience to entertain you a second time!
The Ayon SET on LumenWhite 90 dB. also sounds exceptional. If you don’t go atomic like MikeL and play mostly the kind of music you and I like, Ron, I think SET with very high current play on 90+ dB sensitive cone can be extraordinary too.
Best,
Tang
Well, you have your strong opinions but I lived with both for several years and while the SPL limits of the Sphinx was higher it was definitely not better sounding. So what if the KR is a reverse hybrid? It is still SET.
Nothing to do with SPL. The KR was screeching, stressed, music wouldn't flow, affected tone and stage and thinned out Midbass. Thanks for confirming you lived with it and couldn't hear it
On what brand and model of amplifier stand does Bob have each pair of JA200 Mk II amplifier and power supply sitting side-by-side on the same stand?
Critical Mass Systems Maxxum amp stands. http://www.criticalmasssystems.com/productPages/MAXXUM.html
Time for another visit Ron
I have to add that Ked was here on Friday- the AF1Premium/Graham Elite/Coralstone were set up 4 days prior to Ked's visit. The TT/arm/cartridge had <10 hours on them. Even since Ked's visit and another 50+ hours on the Coralstone for me has changed the overall sound dramatically. I would expect that by 100 hours it will a totally different sonic presentation. There is a weight and body to the AF1 vs AF3 that has started to surface that was not there when Ked visited last week.
The JP80II/JA200II's are also two weeks old with about 100 hours on them. You can't really tell anything yet. Give all of this about 500 hours and then you can understand what both the table/arm/cartridge/electronics are really about.
The AF3/Graham/Etna SL all are totally broken in. This AF3 is the one that MF recently reviewed in Stereophile and Analog Planet.
I usaully play the JA200II's in the 30% mode. It's about 50-60 Watts Class A. I can't tell much difference driving the M3's in the 30% mode or the full 170Watt mode at normal listening levels AND they run a LOT cooler than when in the full 170 Watt output mode.
I would also add that as much as I loved Ked's LP's/classical that he played, I pretty much play and listen to totally different types of music. Personally I'm much more into the music itself vs. how the system or something "sounds".
I listen to a lot of Leondard Cohen, Sharon Robinson, Sufjan Stevens, Michael Hedges, Patricia Barber, Beck, Duke Ellington, Miles D., Dead Combo, 60's/70's rock, Ben Webster, Rodney Crowell, Dean Martin. Classical is wonderful, I listen to classical occasionally but it is not my personal go to listening venue.
Out of the customers that visit (between 10-15 week normally) 90% of the them listen to jazz, current alternative, 60's 70's rock. About 10% ask to play classical.
Last edited:
Critical Mass Systems Maxxum amp stands. http://www.criticalmasssystems.com/productPages/MAXXUM.html
Time for another visit Ron
I have to add that Ked was here on Friday- the AF1Premium/Graham Elite/Coralstone were set up 4 days prior to Ked's visit. The TT/arm/cartridge had <10 hours on them. Even since Ked's visit and another 50+ hours on the Coralstone for me has changed the overall sound dramatically. I would expect that by 100 hours it will a totally different sonic presentation. There is a weight and body to the AF1 vs AF3 that has started to surface that was not there when Ked visited last week.
The JP80II/JA200II's are also two weeks old with about 100 hours on them. You can't really tell anything yet. Give all of this about 500 hours and then you can understand what both the table/arm/cartridge/electronics are really about.
The AF3/Graham/Etna SL all are totally broken in. This AF3 is the one that MF recently reviewed in Stereophile and Analog Planet.
I usaully play the JA200II's in the 30% mode. It's about 50-60 Watts Class A. I can't tell much difference driving the M3's in the 30% mode or the full 170Watt mode at normal listening levels AND they run a LOT cooler than when in the full 170 Watt output mode.
I would also add that as much as I loved Ked's LP's/classical that he played, I pretty much play and listen to totally different types of music. Personally I'm much more into the music itself vs. how the system or something "sounds".
I listen to a lot of Leondard Cohen, Sharon Robinson, Sufjan Stevens, Michael Hedges, Patricia Barber, Beck, Duke Ellington, Miles D., Dead Combo, 60's/70's rock, Ben Webster, Rodney Crowell, Dean Martin. Classical is wonderful, I listen to classical occasionally but it is not my personal go to listening venue.
Out of the customers that visit (between 10-15 week normally) 90% of the them listen to jazz, current alternative, 60's 70's rock. About 10% ask to play classical.
Very interesting... do you think this holds across the board?
Hi Caeser, I really have no idea, it's just my experience with the visitors that I get. Actually if I think of maybe 25 customers that I sell to regularly, I can think of two of them that listen to classical exclusively. Several "dabble" with listening to classical, but it's not their "go to" genre.
Btw, it's not that I don't appreciate or not like Classical music. I grew up with a mother that played the violin and an aunt that was a Julliard grad/concert pianist. I was doing "classical" at 3 years of age. It's just that the 50's/60's/70's music got to me and changed my entire existence during those years. Although I DO listen to RadioSwissClassic 5-6 hours day when working around my " audio laboratory" http://www.radioswissclassic.ch/en
Last edited:
Oh, I know. I was rolling tubes in the 70's. I like to keep everything stock at Rhapsody just so people can hear what they get stock. No doubt you can radically increase the performance with rolling the valves.
Btw, Ked, I took the JP80II over to my tech yesterday. I had a noisy tube and I wanted to change the loading resistor in the MC section. That was why I had the Zesto in place when you were here.
Upon returning and after playing around with the Jadis running direclty into the MC, a few veils were lifted from using the Zesto set up. BUT, the sound that works for me best is the arm cable (latest Kondo silver cable) into the Kondo SUT and then into the MM of the Jadis which provides glistening, open and full bodied sound.....and most importantly for me, DEAD QUIET. This is the set up that I will probably run for now.
With the AF3 I moved the Zesto Tessara to that set up and it's VG as well.
Don't forget the AF1P/Jadis are all brand new and it will take weeks and unfortunately probably months until I get everything completely settled in and understanding the best "matches".
Last edited:
Similar threads
