Zero Distortion: Visit to Rhapsody Dallas

[PeterA]

They sound the same to me! What is the difference?

Perhaps with a better recording device it would be more obvious? Here the bass overpowers everything else.

I notice a big difference. More with his SET video of same music not posted here. These three videos were discussed on "There is a Smarter Way". Check on that thread, post #112.

 

[mtemur]

haven’t heard those two myself but know someone who did those compares, he still favoured the old ones.

But hey on Zus it wouldn’t matter.

I did. The new Kondo 211 tubes are custom made by Psvane (AFAIK). Pins are silver together with other improvements but 1940's GE is still better.

RCA is better than GE, United Electronics is better than RCA but a little bit too romantic for my taste. Overall I prefer RCA after that GE.

 

[bonzo75]

I did. The new Kondo 211 tubes are custom made by Psvane (AFAIK). Pins are silver together with other improvements but 1940's GE is still better.

RCA is better than GE, United Electronics is better than RCA but a little bit too romantic for my taste. Overall I prefer RCA after that GE.

I was referring to the AN and the Elrog 211

 

[mtemur]

I was referring to the AN and the Elrog 211

Sorry, I misunderstood, but I don't think they're any better.

 

[Kcin]

The AN and Elrog are IMO no better than the GE. RCAs are rare and UE more so. GE 's are reliable and still attainable and affordable. I have RCAs and GEs here and use the GEs mainly to preserve the RCAs-- as I only have one pair of the RCAs.

 

[mtemur]

IMHO NOS tubes for Kagura can be chosen like this:

211: RCA or GE,
GZ34: Mullard Blackburn F32 (F31 would be better but finding 8 identical F31 can be very difficult),
6SN7: Tungsol VT-231 smoked glass, oval mica, copper rods (or Marconi B65 but it is impossible to find quad),
12AU7: Telefunken ECC802S,

For G-1000 and other Kondo gear using 6072: GE 6072 black plates, square getter (not D getter), triple mica, no support rods. Having 5 stars or not is not important as long as the tube is made between 1953-1958

 

[spiritofmusic]

The AN and Elrog are IMO no better than the GE. RCAs are rare and UE more so. GE 's are reliable and still attainable and affordable. I have RCAs and GEs here and use the GEs mainly to preserve the RCAs-- as I only have one pair of the RCAs.

When you say AN and Elrog no better than GE, you mean on a par, or the GE is still superior? Marginally, or by a margin?

Despite always reading reports that the RCAs are so superior to the GE, in all my searching over the last decade since I acquired my Nat SE2SE 211 monos, I've never come across more than the occasional RCA for sale, never a pair, and certainly never a quad.

 

[Kcin]

When you say AN and Elrog no better than GE, you mean on a par, or the GE is still superior? Marginally, or by a margin?

Despite always reading reports that the RCAs are so superior to the GE, in all my searching over the last decade since I acquired my Nat SE2SE 211 monos, I've never come across more than the occasional RCA for sale, never a pair, and certainly never a quad.

I would say the AN and Elrog are on par to the GE—- Elrog’s are very good tubes-However,have not had good luck with them—I’ve heard a comparison of the AN and GE- it was a split on preference in the group to GE. I’m sure if readily available, AN would use GE.

You’re right -RCAs are very scarce. I feel fortunate to have a pair. The good news is if you want to try AN or Elrog you can. My preference is for American tubes for reliability especially.

 

[spiritofmusic]

I would say the AN and Elrog are on par to the GE—- Elrog’s are very good tubes-However,have not had good luck with them—I’ve heard a comparison of the AN and GE- it was a split on preference in the group to GE. I’m sure if readily available, AN would use GE.

You’re right -RCAs are very scarce. I feel fortunate to have a pair. The good news is if you want to try AN or Elrog you can. My preference is for American tubes for reliability especially.

Any thoughts on the Molybdenum 211s?
An AN quad is £2k, kinda same price as a quad of GEs. Mayer Elrogs pushing 3x that.

 

[Kcin]

Any thoughts on the Molybdenum 211s?
An AN quad is £2k, kinda same price as a quad of GEs. Mayer Elrogs pushing 3x that.

Sorry, no experience with the Linlai tubes

 

[MadFloyd]

Hey Kedar, I don't frequent this forum that often but happened to this evening and saw this thread. I really enjoyed it. Thanks for sharing.

I might have to get myself to Dallas...

 

[morricab]

Brad, the Remastering process is not applied to the recording but to the system. It may seem like semantics but if you were to apply those remastering setting to recording alone it would sound awful. Those changes were done to address the overall system presentation. Lucky for you, I have a video of the WAAR system with and without the Remastering process:

Yes, huge improvement( however, call it what you will, you are manipulating the original signal in a way that can’t be compared with othe systems. So, either the recording leaves something to be desired or your digital source does but you have brought sounds up out of the mix, made the bass have more texture and less boom and selectively boosted dynamics to make the recording sound more alive.

As you made no (I am assuming) changes to the physical system other than adding some mastering boxes to the chain, I think we need to say that you effectively remastered the recording but in a non-transferable manner.

i will add that without the remastering this does not sound very good. Veiled and boomy.

 

[morricab]

They sound the same to me! What is the difference?

Perhaps with a better recording device it would be more obvious? Here the bass overpowers everything else.

They are quite different but to compare with completely different music and further it has been manipulated is not a fair comparison.

 

[morricab]

I guess no one else hears the issues that I raised with the videos? This is what a great videos of classical music should sound like:

Just for clarity, the DHT/SET system was without your remastering, correct? I can now understand why you felt the need to remaster that for your big system. That being said, other than bass power, the DHT SET system still sounds much better. A bit strained at times but presence, tonality, texture dynamics and flow all superior to the WAAR system with remastering. Strings especially I thought, the WAAR has a bit of stridency that I think is inherent in the planar design (I have BG drivers in a system at home) that can’t be mastered out.
You did close the gap significantly (the original through the WAAR is not really good), but didn’t quite capture the essence. Putting some high power SETs on the ribbons maybe??

 

[spiritofmusic]

Sorry, no experience with the Linlai tubes

Molybdenum 211 is an option for both AN and Elrog Mayer

 

[the sound of Tao]

Brad, the details are in this thread:

There is a smarter way

Respond back on that thread if you have any questions.

Brad FYI if you’re seeking more illumination I believe Carlos has left the building… and gone back to his WAAR room.

 

[tima]

I didn't read anything on the Bayz speakers. They were in one picture. What's up with those?

 

[bonzo75]

I didn't read anything on the Bayz speakers. They were in one picture. What's up with those?

i did not get time to listen to them. My next stop would have been playing Kagura on the Alsyvox and trying the pilium preamp in place of the Kondo.

 

[mtemur]

I would say the AN and Elrog are on par to the GE—- Elrog’s are very good tubes-However,have not had good luck with them—I’ve heard a comparison of the AN and GE- it was a split on preference in the group to GE. I’m sure if readily available, AN would use GE.

You’re right -RCAs are very scarce. I feel fortunate to have a pair. The good news is if you want to try AN or Elrog you can. My preference is for American tubes for reliability especially.

For this kind of comparison amplifier should be biased each time you switched tubes. Biasing is difficult on some amps especially when you have to take the bottom cover off. If you skip biasing it won't be fair test.

I heard Elrog 211 tubes about 10 years ago and they sounded like transistor to me. I don't know how they sound now, probably improved..

 

[bonzo75]

For this kind of comparison amplifier should be biased each time you switched tubes. Biasing is difficult on some amps especially when you have to take the bottom cover off. If you skip biasing it won't be fair test.

we did our tube compares with a a local Amp Designer so biased each time