Zellaton and my ascent to Soulution

[MylesBAstor]

Adding to my recent Soulution 331 integrated amplifier observations above, yes, I agree with Miles on the break in period of a new unit - at least a few hundred hours or more in my experience.. Also, the 331 needs, from start of full power-up mode, about one hour to start sounding its best. Just plan ahead in your listening sessions and the total immersion, liquid flow and jump-factor of the 331 will take you away...

I reckon it takes fully broken-in 312 a minimum of 24 hrs after turn on to begin settling in. And at least three days after turn on to sound optimal. Then again I find that true of most solid-state electronics I’ve had here. So they just are left on and no planning needed.

 

[chuck]

Hello Chuck,

Why do you assume the 701s were removing detail by 10%, instead of assuming the Boulder 3060 was accentuating detail by 10%?

What is your principled basis for theorizing attribution one way rather than the other?

We lugged the Soulution 701s into the room, immediately disconnected the Boulder 3060 and got the 701s going. They were a demo set that were fully brokien in. We listened to them for a couple of hours. They sounded really good and very detailed. Then we reconnected the Boulder 3060 and it was jaw dropping -- like the amount of music from recordings doubled. Not really double, more like 10% or so, but seemed like double. We switched back and forth a couple of times to be sure and it was the same thing each time. Then we started listening closer to what was going on. With orchestral music, instruments that were heard with the Boulder were not heard with the Soulutions, voices too -- smoothed over, smeared. It was noticeable in varying degrees on all recordings, jazz, rock, pop, country - didn't matter. However, the Soulutions made all recordings sound more natural, organic, liquid, musical, warm -- all the words that describe that audiophile sound.

Does that answer your questions?

 

[Ron Resnick]

We lugged the Soulution 701s into the room, immediately disconnected the Boulder 3060 and got the 701s going. They were a demo set that were fully brokien in. We listened to them for a couple of hours. They sounded really good and very detailed. Then we reconnected the Boulder 3060 and it was jaw dropping -- like the amount of music from recordings doubled. Not really double, more like 10% or so, but seemed like double. We switched back and forth a couple of times to be sure and it was the same thing each time. Then we started listening closer to what was going on. With orchestral music, instruments that were heard with the Boulder were not heard with the Soulutions, voices too -- smoothed over, smeared. It was noticeable in varying degrees on all recordings, jazz, rock, pop, country - didn't matter. However, the Soulutions made all recordings sound more natural, organic, liquid, musical, warm -- all the words that describe that audiophile sound.

Does that answer your questions?

Yes. Thank you!

 

[Colekat]

We lugged the Soulution 701s into the room, immediately disconnected the Boulder 3060 and got the 701s going. They were a demo set that were fully brokien in. We listened to them for a couple of hours. They sounded really good and very detailed. Then we reconnected the Boulder 3060 and it was jaw dropping -- like the amount of music from recordings doubled. Not really double, more like 10% or so, but seemed like double. We switched back and forth a couple of times to be sure and it was the same thing each time. Then we started listening closer to what was going on. With orchestral music, instruments that were heard with the Boulder were not heard with the Soulutions, voices too -- smoothed over, smeared. It was noticeable in varying degrees on all recordings, jazz, rock, pop, country - didn't matter. However, the Soulutions made all recordings sound more natural, organic, liquid, musical, warm -- all the words that describe that audiophile sound.

Does that answer your questions?

So which ones did you like better !

 

[Ron Resnick]

So which ones did you like better !

Chuck prioritizes resolution and detail, so he preferred the Boulder.

 

[chuck]

So which ones did you like better !

The Boulder by far. The Soulutions were IMO rubbish -- could not do the basic job of an amp and were way more expensive.

Chuck prioritizes resolution and detail, so he preferred the Boulder.

I prioritize the recording. I want to hear the music the composer, musicians and engineers created -- not the amp.

 

[LL21]

The Boulder by far. The Soulutions were IMO rubbish -- could not do the basic job of an amp and were way more expensive.


I prioritize the recording. I want to hear the music the composer, musicians and engineers created -- not the amp.

The crazy thing in the UK is that the Boulder 3050 Monos retail for USD$421K (£335K). The Soulution 701 Monos retail for USD$189K (£150K).

 

[pk_LA]

The Boulder by far. The Soulutions were IMO rubbish -- could not do the basic job of an amp and were way more expensive.


I prioritize the recording. I want to hear the music the composer, musicians and engineers created -- not the amp.

We all have slightly different tastes and ears! I prioritize enjoyment. Your note reminded me of years back when we remixed several recordings (from the stems) for Guitar Hero. Some of which ended up being preferred by the artists themselves to the versions available digitally at the time.

 

[microstrip]

The Boulder by far. The Soulutions were IMO rubbish -- could not do the basic job of an amp and were way more expensive.


I prioritize the recording. I want to hear the music the composer, musicians and engineers created -- not the amp.

Why do you insist on denigrating the amplifier and not acknowledging the simple fact that probably the REF40 preamplifier could not drive the Soulution 701?

Again from the manufacturer sites: Soulution 701

Input impedance

2.3 kΩ balanced (XLR) 4.0 kΩ unbalanced (RCA)

Audio Research REF40 (Anniversary)
Output impedance 600 ohms Balanced, 300 ohms SE main (2), 20K ohms minimum load and 2000pF maximum capacitance.

(...) So I had the 701 mono amps in for a comparison to my Boulder 3060, if they matched the hype I would have got them. Speakers were Wilson Alexandria X2S2, pre ARC Ref40. (...)

I owned the REF40 until recently - for more than 10 years - and had the same problem with low input impedance amplifiers. The REF 40 is a tube design with capacitor coupled output.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Why do you insist on denigrating the amplifier and not acknowledging the simple fact that probably the REF40 preamplifier could not drive the Soulution 701?

Again from the manufacturer sites: Soulution 701

Input impedance

2.3 kΩ balanced (XLR) 4.0 kΩ unbalanced (RCA)

Audio Research REF40 (Anniversary)
Output impedance 600 ohms Balanced, 300 ohms SE main (2), 20K ohms minimum load and 2000pF maximum capacitance.

Francisco is correct. That impedance match is a total red flag.

 

[Colekat]

The Boulder by far. The Soulutions were IMO rubbish -- could not do the basic job of an amp and were way more expensive.


I prioritize the recording. I want to hear the music the composer, musicians and engineers created -- not the amp.

Wow … That is harsh … LOL … man I’ll have to rethink things …

This sure is a tough crowd … It is none of my business , but I dare not ask you what kind of car you drive

…. and I dare not place value on any of this stuff … none of it has any value less what we place on it for enjoyment .

My first system was a Pioneer SX -1010 Receiver and Dual turntable with Altec Landsing Model 5s and $2.00 for 14 Guage lamp cord from Gatzke Hardware … I still have it 50 years later … Well not the lamp cord … I had more pleasure listening to that system than any of the $500,000.00 systems I build today ! Now I cant even listen to the old Pioneer without a chuckle … you know … its like a Walkman vs. the Boston Pops on the Esplanade … But I still chase the best system I can afford , for my taste . Ive listened to a lot of equipment , but never thought any of it was rubbish … maybe not my flavor as I had heard it at that moment , but not rubbish !

And how many times have we all heard something we thought we didn't like , and in a different system at a different time , we place an order !

These new attempts to capture live music and recreate it in my Great Room , will never give me the same thrill as the first time I lit that receiver and blasted “Train kept a Rollin’ “ , … Whats the point !

Just like what we listen too , what we drive , What team we root for … CDs or Vinyl … electrostatics , dynamic drivers , Planar , hybrid , sub woofers , etc. …. Pardon my arrogance , but none of this is “rubbish “ … just different flavor for different taste …

Some of us are limited , by budget , room size , or whatever …. And some of us have a blank check book !

Enjoyment in this game is a state of mind uninterrupted by life’s little distractions … an empty mind , comfy on the chair we like … filling the room with great vibes … Im sure I could make great vibes , even with Boulder 3050s !

 

[pk_LA]

Wow … That is harsh … LOL … man I’ll have to rethink things …

This sure is a tough crowd … It is none of my business , but I dare not ask you what kind of car you drive

…. and I dare not place value on any of this stuff … none of it has any value less what we place on it for enjoyment .

My first system was a Pioneer SX -1010 Receiver and Dual turntable with Altec Landsing Model 5s and $2.00 for 14 Guage lamp cord from Gatzke Hardware … I still have it 50 years later … Well not the lamp cord … I had more pleasure listening to that system than any of the $500,000.00 systems I build today ! Now I cant even listen to the old Pioneer without a chuckle … you know … its like a Walkman vs. the Boston Pops on the Esplanade … But I still chase the best system I can afford , for my taste . Ive listened to a lot of equipment , but never thought any of it was rubbish … maybe not my flavor as I had heard it at that moment , but not rubbish !

And how many times have we all heard something we thought we didn't like , and in a different system at a different time , we place an order !

These new attempts to capture live music and recreate it in my Great Room , will never give me the same thrill as the first time I lit that receiver and blasted “Train kept a Rollin’ “ , … Whats the point !

Just like what we listen too , what we drive , What team we root for … CDs or Vinyl … electrostatics , dynamic drivers , Planar , hybrid , sub woofers , etc. …. Pardon my arrogance , but none of this is “rubbish “ … just different flavor for different taste …

Some of us are limited , by budget , room size , or whatever …. And some of us have a blank check book !

Enjoyment in this game is a state of mind uninterrupted by life’s little distractions … an empty mind , comfy on the chair we like … filling the room with great vibes … Im sure I could make great vibes , even with Boulder 3050s !

I am very familiar with the Boulder 3010/3060 combination. I am getting very familiar with the Soulution 727/711+ combination. The Boulder is amazingly detailed and analytical. The Soulution is amazingly musical. And detailed. I love them both. But, for my tastes and enjoyment I am happy to have gotten the Soulution.

 

[pk_LA]

I am very familiar with the Boulder 3010/3060 combination. I am getting very familiar with the Soulution 727/711+ combination. The Boulder is amazingly detailed and analytical. The Soulution is amazingly musical. And detailed. I love them both. But, for my tastes and enjoyment I am happy to have gotten the Soulution.

Some further elaboration...

Boulder bass command and power is the likes of which I have never heard. But the bass resolution and nuance seems better on the Soulution. *Note that I am comparing the 3060 to the 711+ and not the pair of 717s on order.

Boulder transient detail and speed is amazing. But also somewhat granular - even fatiguing at times. The Soulution not as quick but more pleasant.

The Boulder is an equal opportunity resolution amp - meaning that sometimes very subtle or delicate cues can get over resolved (or so it seems). The Soulution seems to do delicate better.

Soulution air feels more organic than the Boulder.

The Boulder takes absolute command of the speaker. As such, instrument decay often feels artificially cut short or muted.

Overall dynamics on the 3010 are better than I have ever heard on a pre-amp. But, it is quite dry. By comparison, the 727 has a touch of warmth and pleasantness.

Density is an interesting one. On lower frequency dominant tracks the Boulder seems a bit more present while mid-range and up dominant tracks come to life with the Soulution. Vocals are simply more real on the Soulution.

The Boulder and the Soulution are both AWESOME. Like most of the high-end gear it comes down to personal preference. For me the choice was an expensive one. I sold the Boulder 3010 and 3060 at quite a loss to get the Soulution. Not once have I wished that I made a different decision - love the Soulution gear. Now if I can just get the upgraded 717s! Did I mention how anxious I am to get the new 717s...

 

[LL21]

Some further elaboration...

Boulder bass command and power is the likes of which I have never heard. But the bass resolution and nuance seems better on the Soulution. *Note that I am comparing the 3060 to the 711+ and not the pair of 717s on order.

Boulder transient detail and speed is amazing. But also somewhat granular - even fatiguing at times. The Soulution not as quick but more pleasant.

The Boulder is an equal opportunity resolution amp - meaning that sometimes very subtle or delicate cues can get over resolved (or so it seems). The Soulution seems to do delicate better.

Soulution air feels more organic than the Boulder.

The Boulder takes absolute command of the speaker. As such, instrument decay often feels artificially cut short or muted.

Overall dynamics on the 3010 are better than I have ever heard on a pre-amp. But, it is quite dry. By comparison, the 727 has a touch of warmth and pleasantness.

Density is an interesting one. On lower frequency dominant tracks the Boulder seems a bit more present while mid-range and up dominant tracks come to life with the Soulution. Vocals are simply more real on the Soulution.

The Boulder and the Soulution are both AWESOME. Like most of the high-end gear it comes down to personal preference. For me the choice was an expensive one. I sold the Boulder 3010 and 3060 at quite a loss to get the Soulution. Not once have I wished that I made a different decision - love the Soulution gear. Now if I can just get the upgraded 717s! Did I mention how anxious I am to get the new 717s...

Fascinating read...thanks for sharing. Enjoy!

 

[Audiohertz2]

Some further elaboration...

Boulder bass command and power is the likes of which I have never heard. But the bass resolution and nuance seems better on the Soulution. *Note that I am comparing the 3060 to the 711+ and not the pair of 717s on order.

Boulder transient detail and speed is amazing. But also somewhat granular - even fatiguing at times. The Soulution not as quick but more pleasant.

The Boulder is an equal opportunity resolution amp - meaning that sometimes very subtle or delicate cues can get over resolved (or so it seems). The Soulution seems to do delicate better.

Soulution air feels more organic than the Boulder.

The Boulder takes absolute command of the speaker. As such, instrument decay often feels artificially cut short or muted.

Overall dynamics on the 3010 are better than I have ever heard on a pre-amp. But, it is quite dry. By comparison, the 727 has a touch of warmth and pleasantness.

Density is an interesting one. On lower frequency dominant tracks the Boulder seems a bit more present while mid-range and up dominant tracks come to life with the Soulution. Vocals are simply more real on the Soulution.

The Boulder and the Soulution are both AWESOME. Like most of the high-end gear it comes down to personal preference. For me the choice was an expensive one. I sold the Boulder 3010 and 3060 at quite a loss to get the Soulution. Not once have I wished that I made a different decision - love the Soulution gear. Now if I can just get the upgraded 717s! Did I mention how anxious I am to get the new 717s...

Boulder with Soulution pre amp, seems the winner ..?

 

[pk_LA]

Boulder with Soulution pre amp, seems the winner ..?

That's interesting. I felt the Boulder pre-amp was an amazing unit. If I still had it I would love to hear the Soulution 711+ with the Boulder 3010. I *think* the 3060 might just be a tick overcontrolling for my palette. I wince a bit as I type this because I do think the 3060 is quite awesome and I don't want to come off negative about it.

 

[LL21]

That's interesting. I felt the Boulder pre-amp was an amazing unit. If I still had it I would love to hear the Soulution 711+ with the Boulder 3010. I *think* the 3060 might just be a tick overcontrolling for my palette. I wince a bit as I type this because I do think the 3060 is quite awesome and I don't want to come off negative about it.

From my limited experience with Boulder and speaking with a few people who have heard it and whose ears I understand better than most...I suspect the Boulder 3060 is remarkable in what it does well...remarkable. For those who have spoken to me about harmonics, organic qualities...I imagine you can probably find that in your source...like everything else in truly great systems (and the Boulder surely could be an anchor in such a system)...it takes a thoughtful approach to system building to get the balance just right to suit personal taste. And for this level of cost and brain damage, it is fair for anyone to expect that, like Steve W feels about his Lamm ML3 amps, they are the end of the road amps.

I have a better sense of the 3060 from speaking with people...but interestingly have heard far less about the 3010. And I agree witih you, pk_LA...it is the 3010 that particularly intrigues me. Is it an 'end of the road' preamp? Sounds like your view is that it could be?

 

[chuck]

Query: Amp 1 plays music exactly as it was recorded -- listen to the live performance, then the recording and it sounds the same. Amp 2 does not sound like the live performance, it sounds better to most listeners than the live performance. Which is the better amp?

 

[Audioarts]

From my limited experience with Boulder and speaking with a few people who have heard it and whose ears I understand better than most...I suspect the Boulder 3060 is remarkable in what it does well...remarkable. For those who have spoken to me about harmonics, organic qualities...I imagine you can probably find that in your source...like everything else in truly great systems (and the Boulder surely could be an anchor in such a system)...it takes a thoughtful approach to system building to get the balance just right to suit personal taste. And for this level of cost and brain damage, it is fair for anyone to expect that, like Steve W feels about his Lamm ML3 amps, they are the end of the road amps.

I have a better sense of the 3060 from speaking with people...but interestingly have heard far less about the 3010. And I agree witih you, pk_LA...it is the 3010 that particularly intrigues me. Is it an 'end of the road' preamp? Sounds like your view is that it could be?

ZELLATON with Boulder.
Very different personality than Soulution…., I can see how the two would appeal to different tastes, with the Boulder quite hard hitting and visceral while Soulution offers more delicacy, color, tone and layering in the mids, yet still impactful. Imho

 

[LL21]

ZELLATON with Boulder.
Very different personality than Soulution…., I can see how the two would appeal to different tastes, with the Boulder quite hard hitting and visceral while Soulution offers more delicacy, color, tone and layering in the mids, yet still impactful. Imho

Thank you. I have to say of the videos I have heard...just a video...I have enjoyed the big Evolution Acoustics MM7 (Mike L), the AG Trio G3s (which I have heard in person also), the big Goebel Majestic and the Zellaton with YS Sound amps...particularly the YS Ultras.

Would be fun to hear our system driving Zellatons (I have heard good things about Robert Koda & Goebel Majestic from those who have been to AE's flagship auditioning space).