Is High End Audio Gear Worth the Money?

[Rensselaer]

Do you know many music critics with a high end audio system?



Emotions can be triggered in a variety of situations - witness the millions around the world who shed a tear watching this on their phone or TV:

Audiophiles can be "blocked" in their ability to experience music by what they perceive as bad sound - often only when there is an expectation of good sound.



So Peter's emotional response is much greater than others who claim to be emotionally engaged with lesser systems and/or recordings'? Lol.

Interesting. I watched the Celine Dion video and went through the following:

At the start, shot from distance, singing from the Eiffel Tower the music was emotive, I thought how nice it would have been to be there.

Next a close up of Celine and the grand piano. The top of the piano is closed and covered with water drops. It’s raining! That piano could be ruined. What is it like for the people standing out in the rain? Now I’m glad I’m not at that concert.

Now closer look at Celine singing. Blood vessels are bulging on her neck, vibrato in her notes (less difficult to hit a range with vibrato than a single pure note). I am no longer enjoying her singing.

Did I block my enjoyment by looking too critically at the source? I seemed to enjoy it much better when not critically examining it. Is this what Kingrex was saying; “The times I enjoy my stereo the most are when I am not really thinking about how its playing or what it sounds like. When I'm just in the mood to hear something and I forget about the stereo itself and only hear the song. Its not like it magically got better. It's simply a frame of mind that allows me to become emotionally attached.”

Is this why we (I) upgrade , because over-analysis?

 

[Amir]

Curious that you post snippets, but never comment on their content and tell us your opinion on them. Do you really believe that modern equipment is not able to transmit the nuance and emotion as well as the Edison phonograph did?

I have no experience in sound recording and have no idea about it. I shared that post because I am interested to read other ideas about it.

In high end market I believe most modern systems are not able to transmit the micro nuance and emotion of music.

Low efficiency Carbon fiber speakers, high power complex high feedback solidstate amplifiers, DDD recording CD albums, AC line filters, modern AC cables, all those complex systems block micro nuance and emotion of music. I agree most modern systems have perfect measurements but when you listen to music there is no emotional connection.

 

[ssfas]

I was listening to this podcast the other day and it made me think that a lot of audiophiles need to get real about what recorded sound actually is these days, perhaps it is an ideal that rarely exists.



The vast majority of the music I listen to live is on amplified. However, about 7 or 8 years ago I went to see Massive Attack at the O2 Brixton. Given the average age of the audience, which I would’ve put around 50, they kept the sound level quite low and it led to a remarkably engaging emotional experience. In a strange way, by keeping the sound down, it brought the music closer to how I might listen to it at home, because I don’t play any music particularly loud.

From the perspective of any normal person (present company excluded) my hi-fi system is capable of producing exceptionally good sound quality. At times the rasp of a trumpet or the blat of a saxophone almost sounds real. My current system costs about 10 times that of my system perhaps 15 years ago when the kids were growing up and hi-fi was the least of my priorities, and it was difficult to find time and a childminder to go to live performance. For me, however, with the near constant reference to live performance, domestically reproduced sound simply doesn’t come close on an emotional level. Overall, if 10 is a typical live performance, I’d give my home audio about 3 out of 10 on average. For some music, like opera, it doesn’t get above 1, so I don’t bother.

The main problem is that you get the sound, but not the performance, and the performance to a large extent is what provides the emotional content. Even with perhaps the most placid performer I ever saw, Emil Gilels, he exuded a certain serenity that sticks with me 41 years later. he was also quite a good pianist.

If I lived in a hut in the woods with no means of transportation to live performance, I might think differently and see value in spending more on my hi-fi system. Instead, I spent considerably more money on tickets.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

If I lived in a hut in the woods with no means of transportation to live performance, I might think differently and see value in spending more on my hi-fi system. Instead, I spent considerably more money on tickets.

that's me. a hut in the woods. i like my hut. i'm not stuck there, but i do prefer to stay there. i enjoy live music too, some of it just 5 minutes down the hill in my small town. but not that often. our small town has a tradition of live music.

if i cared to live in the city i might view things differently. trade-offs.

 

[Elliot G.]

that's me. a hut in the woods. i like my hut. i'm not stuck there, but i do prefer to stay there. i enjoy live music too, some of it just 5 minutes down the hill in my small town. but not that often. our small town has a tradition of live music.

if i cared to live in the city i might view things differently. trade-offs.

I don't live in a hut in the woods although that kind of sounds what I might like
The live music scene differs greatly dependent on where in this world you live. When I was ain NYC there was many venues and all kinds of music to listen too. Today the world is very different and IMO musically not for the better. There are less places to go, more issues with tickets and many hoops to jump through. I have seen hundreds of concerts in all kinds of places but that was then. Today tickets are incredibly expensive and impossible to obtain in many places. I like going to smaller venues where I can see and actually hear the artists, I don't like hockey rinks and football stadiums, in fact they are mostly horrible and sorry to me that is not what music should sound like. Today I only go to small venues or I don't go. My 60000 close friends wont miss me. I say this because my audio system is my time machine, my traveling companion, my sanity drug and my pleasure center. I truly at this time don't enjoy the BS involved with seeing most events of any type.

 

[PeterA]

I don't live in a hut in the woods although that kind of sounds what I might like
The live music scene differs greatly dependent on where in this world you live. When I was ain NYC there was many venues and all kinds of music to listen too. Today the world is very different and IMO musically not for the better. There are less places to go, more issues with tickets and many hoops to jump through. I have seen hundreds of concerts in all kinds of places but that was then. Today tickets are incredibly expensive and impossible to obtain in many places. I like going to smaller venues where I can see and actually hear the artists, I don't like hockey rinks and football stadiums, in fact they are mostly horrible and sorry to me that is not what music should sound like. Today I only go to small venues or I don't go. My 60000 close friends wont miss me. I say this because my audio system is my time machine, my traveling companion, my sanity drug and my pleasure center. I truly at this time don't enjoy the BS involved with seeing most events of any type.

This pretty much describes my point of view as well, though I do still go occasionally to some classical concerts in Boston and chamber and jazz performances locally. No big stadium or arena venues, and no super loud amplified rock/pop concerts.

 

[Kingrex]

Interesting. I watched the Celine Dion video and went through the following:

At the start, shot from distance, singing from the Eiffel Tower the music was emotive, I thought how nice it would have been to be there.


Is this why we (I) upgrade , because over-analysis?

Yes. We way over analyze. If someone says they have reference tracks, that sort of says to me, your listening to the stereo to tune it. Or people who say they only listen to the higbest quality recordings. Do they like the music on the best recordings? Are they not playing music they enoy that was recorded poorly.

Who was it who brought up music critics. I don't know any or anything about them. But I do run into more people into Music, than Audiophiles. Non have what we would call a high quality stereo. Every one of them can share a deep rich knowledge of the artist, who is great at what and why they feel that way. I don't believe enjoyment of music needs a high end stereo. It may be the opposite. Some people may need a high end stereo to enjoy music. But they are the minority.

I am not saying there is anything at all wrong with having a high quality stereo and enjoying what it can do. I very much like mine. It kicks butt. It just needs a swarm of subs.

I have played my 15 ips tape of tchaikovsky piano concerto 1 about 10 times in the last 2 weeks. As well as 5 or 6 digitql versions. I do marvel at how much better the tape is. Buy I'm also surprused how varied the pianist inerpretation is is. And every time I listen I develop a deeper appreciation for what a masterpiece the music is. And the skill it takes to play it. And it is in those moments I am most deeply engrosed in listening to the pianist hitting the notes itself that I am the most mentally and emotionally connected to the piece. Not when I'm thinking, I need more bass reinforcement or I can't hear where every bassoon player is seated or the mallet hitting the timpani. Those are added bonus I look for when Im listening to my stereo, not the music.

 

[Kingrex]

Here is a thought to ponder. Do people who watch sports enjoy it more on a quality TV?

 

[Elliot G.]

This pretty much describes my point of view as well, though I do still go occasionally to some classical concerts in Boston and chamber and jazz performances locally. No big stadium or arena venues, and no super loud amplified rock/pop concerts.

I went to school in Boston and saw dozens of shows in small venues. These were basically old style theaters, clubs and some gyms. The attendance was small and they were manageable. A hockey rink and a football stadium for 600 bucks to sit in another county doesn't cut it for me.
When I lived in NY I used to go to MSG a lot and had a great ticket connection and we only sat in the 5th row center or the record company seats. Classical of course we had Carnegie and Lincoln Center which are both reasonable size and very civilized LOL. My favorites were the small places and still are.
Florida does not have the choices and they mostly are awful but I have sponsored some small classical events in the past . These were really fun and I learned so much from these sitting right close with a solo artist or a few instruments only, unamplified and very real.

 

[Elliot G.]

Here is a thought to ponder. Do people who watch sports enjoy it more on a quality TV?

only if they are gambling LOL

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Here is a thought to ponder. Do people who watch sports enjoy it more on a quality TV?

yes. i am a very serious sports fan. never ever gamble in any way.

i have a spot upstairs in my barn where i watch sports; the TV is an 85" diag 8k Samsung TV with a budget Dolby Atmos surround sound. i do care about the picture quality and watch sports in 4K when i can. it matters for my pleasure with the watching. the size and picture quality do enhance the experience and make it more of an event. my sports watching place has sport memorabilia on the walls, nothing really rare or expensive, but things that mean something to me. mostly i would rather watch sports on TV than attend. there are exceptions. the Soccer World Cup is coming to Seattle in 2026 and i will try and get to at least one game in person. i do enjoy Baseball in person from time to time. when the 'golf' US Open came to my area i did attend that.

i don't watch sports in my serious dedicated Home Theater since the 4K projector needs a dark room to look right, and i like to watch sports with natural light as it many times becomes an all day thing. i also have my work out equipment upstairs in my sports place so i can do that while i watch sometimes.

 

[microstrip]

Oh, I am no longer analyzing the music. I'll agree with you on your younger assessment but at this point? Oh man, it's all about that sweet music, and how it gets into these ears.

There are many contributions to music enjoyment, but it was found since long that analysis increases it. Analysis is part of musical training and I changed the way I listen to music along the years. Every time I go to a concert I learn something new about the music that is being played - because in some way I analyze the way the musics are performing it, or even because I prepared for the session, reading about it - and I must say that what we get from the visual aspect helps a lot to understand and enjoy the music.

A few days ago I went to the dCS Varese official presentation in our distributor. In a side presentation Michael Fremer did a great vinyl session using some of his fantastic jazz records in a Jadis/ Devore O96 speakers. He analytically explained the recordings before playing them - it helped considerably our enjoyment and involvement.

Listening to the gear is sad. While it's always been about the music, I have (for a long time) tried to improve upon it. At this point? It's just a bonus because now, it's literally all about the music that seemingly blows my auditory senses every time I listen.

May be I am missing your point. Excluding these horrible occasional systems that give us headaches , listening to gear can be a fantastic moment and experience, if we learn something from it.

Surely there are other moments when I move away from gear and just listen to music. Sometimes I forgot about the gear for weeks. But what is the problem if after a an excellent listening we feel compelled to change the cables?

Lose the thought of "real". That will never happen. The best we could ever hope to achieve is "palpable", or the best approximation thereof, to that of live sound. Real sound is my reference but I would be a complete fool if I ever thought my (or any system) could ever get close to the real sound of a lightning strike.

Tom

We will never get "real" in stereo - the recreation of the original sound as accurately and faithfully as possible. Curiously we can approach it very closely in binaural stereo and audiophiles do not seem to appreciate it.

The objective of sound reproduction is creating enjoyable musical experiences. People enjoy music very differently. Audiophiles focus on particular aspects of what they experience in real experiences - you referred to palpability. Some others look for the "energy" of the performance , its "flow", its "scale", the musicians feeling of "interplay". Even unconsciously "trained" audiophiles are analysing sound when they listen.

BTW, as everyone I sometimes find learning about the hidden crude truth behind reality decreases enjoyment. But for me, not in stereo matters.

As always, IMO, YMMV and I am addressing mostly my experience listening to jazz or classical music.

 

[Johan K]

that's me. a hut in the woods. i like my hut. i'm not stuck there, but i do prefer to stay there. i enjoy live music too, some of it just 5 minutes down the hill in my small town. but not that often. our small town has a tradition of live music.

if i cared to live in the city i might view things differently. trade-offs.

Kind of all the same for me, as you Mike !
Love to stay close to my hifi bunker.. LOL!!

 

[Elliot G.]

yes. i am a very serious sports fan. never ever gamble in any way.

that was a joke Mike and since all sports are now dominated with the fantasy stuff it seems to be the driving force for way too many .
I grew up a huge sports fan a nd over the last 20 years my desire has been mostly extinguished with all the stupid and insane rules and changes to the games that IMO have ruined most every one. I don't however need a home theater, or 4k/8k tv to enjoy a game. The rules, reviews, bad calls are all there in 1080P haha.

 

[Atmasphere]

Remember the old PRAT days, when foot taping was used as a test to sound systems? If audiophiles caught themselves doing it, it was a sign that the gear was delivering the musical goods. No foot taping, no deal!

Foot tapping is far more likely when the music is being processed outside of the cerebral cortex.

I spend too much time listening to the details and analyzing how it could be better.

You might not do that so much if you simply had amps that hold together

Did I block my enjoyment by looking too critically at the source? I seemed to enjoy it much better when not critically examining it.

When you are judging for whatever reason, for example a comparison, then the music is being processed in the cerebral cortex and so there is less emotional response.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i do not struggle to just enjoy the music without analyzing. my way for digital listening is to have my laptop or book open and maybe i'm surfing or posting or reading a book and the music just grabs me here and there, just pulls me in. just as music, not sound. i might close the laptop or book, lean back, dim the lights for awhile. classical orchestral works so well for this. i can listen and feel the flow but my mind is on what my eyes are seeing, but the music is present too. so my left brain is occupied and so my right brain is free to just get into the flow.

the music seems to be able to be my companion but never intrude or become a burden. but i do listen alot.

vinyl is not really the same. almost zero laptop with vinyl. so i do that in more concentrated periods. the digital is all the time.

 

[Johan K]

i do not struggle to just enjoy the music without analyzing. my way for digital listening is to have my laptop or book open and maybe i'm surfing or posting or reading a book and the music just grabs me here and there, just pulls me in. just as music, not sound. i might close the laptop or book, lean back, dim the lights for awhile. classical orchestral works so well for this. i can listen and feel the flow but my mind is on what my eyes are seeing, but the music is present too. so my left brain is occupied and so my right brain is free to just get into the flow.

the music seems to be able to be my companion but never intrude or become a burden. but i do listen alot.

vinyl is not really the same. almost zero laptop with vinyl. so i do that in more concentrated periods. the digital is all the time.

Hey man - are you reading my mind right now.. LOL… What you just wrote is what is taking place all the time here… !!

Even far apart - we maybe not be that far from each other in some ways… Great write up and a great explanation - couldn’t have said it better myself.. LOL!!

/ Jk

 

[Al M.]

There are many contributions to music enjoyment, but it was found since long that analysis increases it. Analysis is part of musical training and I changed the way I listen to music along the years. Every time I go to a concert I learn something new about the music that is being played - because in some way I analyze the way the musics are performing it, or even because I prepared for the session, reading about it - and I must say that what we get from the visual aspect helps a lot to understand and enjoy the music.

A few days ago I went to the dCS Varese official presentation in our distributor. In a side presentation Michael Fremer did a great vinyl session using some of his fantastic jazz records in a Jadis/ Devore O96 speakers. He analytically explained the recordings before playing them - it helped considerably our enjoyment and involvement.

Agree about analysis. My deepest enjoyment of music, especially classical and jazz, usually occurs when it is accompanied by analysis as the music flows along. This is not a dry cerebral activity for me, but one of my captivated and thus thoroughly engaged mind. It increases my emotional involvement.

 

[PeterA]

Here is a thought to ponder. Do people who watch sports enjoy it more on a quality TV?

Yes.

 

[MarkusBarkus]

...it definitely feels more natural. Looks like the players are in my living room. I can almost smell the astroturf. It brings me closer to what the coaches intended when players run the plays.