hORNS Universum 3 MKII

[Zero000]

I'm coming around to the conclusion my down firing subs Zus critically hold the spkr back from being seamless (other issues as well).

This may be the case w other spkrs, and the floor does make a difference.

Ked, from my experience, this is a major consideration.

It's massive. And you definitely do NOT want downward firing subs on a suspended floor that isn't very, very solid indeed.

Any speakers with drivers that aren't firing towards you are suspect. Be suspicious. Very suspicious. Until you can convince yourself otherwise. The trouble is if you aren't clued up to it, that realization can come far too late.

The Universum is good but all the really good resolution is in the mids\treble. Bouncy bass off the floor inevitably means definition is lost. And you can hear it. Well, I did at the same dem as I went to with Ked.

 

[morricab]

It's massive. And you definitely do NOT want downward firing subs on a suspended floor that isn't very, very solid indeed.

Any speakers with drivers that aren't firing towards you are suspect. Be suspicious. Very suspicious. Until you can convince yourself otherwise. The trouble is if you aren't clued up to it, that realization can come far too late.

The Universum is good but all the really good resolution is in the mids\treble. Bouncy bass off the floor inevitably means definition is lost. And you can hear it. Well, I did at the same dem as I went to with Ked.

Its ok, because as we found out from Ked's visit to Asia...he doesn't like bass

 

[audioquattr]

I also don't get it how the low section intergrates well with the rest of the speaker. Maybe you get a more slobed curve/response from about 80-300hz.
Like here https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/kii-3-response.23469/#post-460813. Maybe that's why people like this speaker.
Not that i don't believe it sound good, just how does this midbass/low mids integrates..

 

[bonzo75]

My references above this are horns that have the bottom section alone 90 cm or 125 cm wide, 5 feet tall, 1m deep. Kind of twice the width of a focal maestro utopia and 2.5 times the depth, with two 18 inch drivers in each of those speakers, front firing. Another where the horn is 2m long, from 800 Hz to 80, and then crosses over to sealed subs. Trios bass horns. Not to mention there are non horn references. So I know where I lack the bass and how much is sufficient, and where the compromise is. In fact, unless the room is quite big, I don't even see another solution to these. Is the bass as good as the above? No it isn't. Do I miss the bass? No I don't. It hits that spot quite nicely.

 

[morricab]

My references above this are horns that have the bottom section alone 90 cm or 125 cm wide, 5 feet tall, 1m deep. Kind of twice the width of a focal maestro utopia and 2.5 times the depth, with two 18 inch drivers in each of those speakers, front firing. Another where the horn is 2m long, from 800 Hz to 80, and then crosses over to sealed subs. Trios bass horns. Not to mention there are non horn references. So I know where I lack the bass and how much is sufficient, and where the compromise is. In fact, unless the room is quite big, I don't even see another solution to these. Is the bass as good as the above? No it isn't. Do I miss the bass? No I don't. It hits that spot quite nicely.

I guess you missed this at the end of my statement...left the humor at home in bed today, eh?

 

[shakti]

Before I did my final set up of the Uni III, I analyzed pictures of UNI III on fairs, and in privat listening rooms.

What I found out is, that on most fair pictures the manufacturer did an additional carpet under the UNI III,
so I tried the same.
My room has a wooden floor and the small peaces of carpet were easy to identify, Music became more precise in the lower mids, but on the other hand, some energy was lacking.

Looking to private installations or some dealer installations, it became obvious , that some user do prefer higher feets to enlarge the distance to the floor.

So I startet to put some stuff under the spikes of the Uni III, in parallel I was using cushions and carpets under UNI III to hear the difference. Increasing the distance to the ground means reducing the effect of a carpet or a cushion up to the point, that the difference becomes a minor difference.

So currently I do not use anything under the UNI III, but have some thicker HRS Nimbus plates under the spikes .

Regarding bass, my UNI III are around 2m from the back and side walls and do have a frequency response/graph, which shows a declining SPL starting from 58 hz in my 60sqm room.

In other rooms or in rooms with a more closer to the wall placement, this in room response will be different.

So I decided to add a Velodyne 1812 subwoofer, which works (surprisingly) well.

Tonight 2 High End experienced friends visited me for an Music/whiskey evening
and we enjoyed my new Techdas AF3 premium.

After a while, they asked, If I can switch the subwoofer on, as they would like to hear the difference....
As I stated, that we are listening all the time with a switched on subwoofer, they were impressed about the level of integration, which is possible with the Velo 1812.

I believe, that a similar integration will be possible with the Gotham subwoofer as well.
The Gotham sub is currently supporting the big Living Voice Horn System, which is installed at a dealer close by.

 

[shakti]

Today I met Lukasz Lewandowsky ( founder, owner of Horns) @AAA exhibition in Germany and we found some time to speak about the Universum III , 2018 version speakers (infact, we spoke about my personal speakers). So I like to highlight some facts, which might be interesting for owners or potential future owners:

- The height of the speakers are defined to have a crossover/filter effect on the downfiring bass.
Adding spacers to increase speakers hight (as I did) will reduce the frequency response in the 220hz area. Doing so will give a little more lean and analytical sound.
Lukasz prefers a carpet under Uni III, if used in standard height.

- The big horn goes down to 250hz, in this area the crossover point to the bass section is set

- The attenuator is not! resistor based, although no resistor based Vol is used, instead a coil based attenuator is integrated

- a flat measured frequency response is ensured on position -8db.
Many customers prefer even higher damping. On long distances -7 or -6 db might be considered

- Lukasz likes BiAmping with Vol Adjustable power amps

I hope, I can continue this chat during the High End exhibition in Warszawa in 2 weeks time.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Very intereting! It always is great when you can talk in person to the designer!

 

[spiritofmusic]

FWIW, I've made some strides sitting my Zus on Panzerholz pieces. So my subs are firing down onto a very hard inert surface. A big uptick, which suggests that the Universums will also benefit from similar experimentation.

The Panzerholz sits on pre existing Symposium Svelte Shelves direct on the timber suspended floor, Zus site on the Panzerholz via Arya Audio RevOPods.

All in all, £2k investment in spkrs isolation, but I'm really happy w current results.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Very interesting, Marc! From where did you source the panzerholz platforms?

 

[spiritofmusic]

A specialist wood contractor in UK, Delignet. They're just "offcuts", but that's all that was needed.
www.ltlewis.co.uk

 

[dctom]

I found that putting Panzerholz under my TT was very beneficial Marc

 

[audioquattr]

Today I met Lukasz Lewandowsky ( founder, owner of Horns) @AAA exhibition in Germany and we found some time to speak about the Universum III , 2018 version speakers (infact, we spoke about my personal speakers). So I like to highlight some facts, which might be interesting for owners or potential future owners:

- The height of the speakers are defined to have a crossover/filter effect on the downfiring bass.
Adding spacers to increase speakers hight (as I did) will reduce the frequency response in the 220hz area. Doing so will give a little more lean and analytical sound.
Lukasz prefers a carpet under Uni III, if used in standard height.

- The big horn goes down to 250hz, in this area the crossover point to the bass section is set

- The attenuator is not! resistor based, although no resistor based Vol is used, instead a coil based attenuator is integrated

- a flat measured frequency response is ensured on position -8db.
Many customers prefer even higher damping. On long distances -7 or -6 db might be considered

- Lukasz likes BiAmping with Vol Adjustable power amps

I hope, I can continue this chat during the High End exhibition in Warszawa in 2 weeks time.

Thanks good Info!
I think you mean a transformer coil, with different tabs for attenuation. It’s effecting both mid and high?

 

[shakti]

Thanks good Info!
I think you mean a transformer coil, with different tabs for attenuation. It’s effecting both mid and high?

Sorry, that my english is not precise enough for some technical details.
And yes, the transformer coil with different tabs will effect mid and high in the same way.

 

[audioquattr]

No problem, i thank you for the info, allways interesting!

 

[christoph]

Shakti, can you show us a picture of your round adjusting "box"?

I guess it will look like mine and then there is a round dial to adjust the attenuation of the mid-/treble horns in relation to the bass section.
There is no coil with different Tabs. My guess is that it is a simple potentiometer

 

[shakti]

Shakti, can you show us a picture of your round adjusting "box"?

I guess it will look like mine and then there is a round dial to adjust the attenuation of the mid-/treble horns in relation to the bass section.
There is no coil with different Tabs. My guess is that it is a simple potentiometer

looks the same than yours.
Lukasz explained the shunt structure of the attenuator and why he is not using a simple potentiometer.
He said, that you can hear the clicks , while rotating the round dial, this is the noise of going over the individual tabs of the coil.

 

[christoph]

looks the same than yours.
Lukasz explained the shunt structure of the attenuator and why he is not using a simple potentiometer.
He said, that you can hear the clicks , while rotating the round dial, this is the noise of going over the individual tabs of the coil.

Thanks shakti.
I missed this answer from you obviously

 

[Willgolf]

Can someone clarify if you need multiple amps to drive the Universum's? There are no dealers in the USA so information is limited. Also, any suggestions on what amps go well with the Universum's. Lastly, does anyone have the hORNS Symphony? How would you compare the two speakers?

 

[bonzo75]

Can someone clarify if you need multiple amps to drive the Universum's? There are no dealers in the USA so information is limited. Also, any suggestions on what amps go well with the Universum's. Lastly, does anyone have the hORNS Symphony? How would you compare the two speakers?

No you don't need two amps though you can biamp if required. I have heard both ways

I heard the symphony. It is good but not universum level. There is an ex dem symphony at around 9k euro someone here is selling. Regarding what kind of amps, I heard various including silvercore 833c, thoress hybrids, many others listed here.

The best was audio detail 211. He is the owner of the system in the below link and also a Ming Da distributor. He also makes his own stuff and has been voicing this amp on the universum for two years, it is really sounding good.

I still have to update it for other amps like silvercore, thoress, and the 211. Also hard OTL on it but that didn't work well

http://zero-distortion.org/horns-universum-mkiii-3/