Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

[Taiko Audio]

Interesting Emile
My 10Gb switch scales to 1Gb depending on SFP module thus I thought all 10Gb fiber stuff would scale down....Does the Extreme 10Gb card scale down?

Your switch was specifically designed for doing that, it is not common in the pro space. It is very nice there are products like yours being put on the market to make 10G technology available to home users while maintaining 1G backwards compatibility.

 

[Taiko Audio]

Probably something else than just the impedance. IMHO accuracy of impedance to .1 ohm is meaningless unless the impedance of the sender and receiver are also accurate to such degree, something I doubt in most electronics. Even small variations in the manufacturing of the PCB's can change the impedance more than that.

If these cables sound different I expect that aspects such as bandwidth, attenuation and microphony will differ.

BTW, anyone with some instrumentation knowledge can manufacture a cable with such impedance accuracy just by trial and error.

You may have missed the link, I’ll share it again:

https://pro.intona.eu/en/stories/cable

 

[microstrip]

(...) I have been able to reduce the noise and vibrations in my systems all because of available knowledge from those like Emile and others that actually over the last year the noise/vibration has come to the top of the table vs. under the table and mysterious as it was to me for the last several years.

I envy you. For me noise and vibration is still as mysterious as it was a few years ago, although I am happy that we have implementations of digital that sound better than years ago and can enjoy them . Can I ask who are the "others" over the last year? As far as I remember the first to systematically deal with vibration in electronics was Goldmund, long ago.

 

[microstrip]

You may have missed the link, I’ll share it again:

https://pro.intona.eu/en/stories/cable

Thanks, but it does not answer to my very basic concern - impedance matching. All I find there are graphs without numbers in the scales, full of marketing misleading and ambiguous hype intended for non technical audiophiles. We had tens of similar product sheets when manufacturers were selling AES/EBU and SPDIF cables.

Please understand this is not a criticism on the product - I can easily accept on your opinion they did their homework and manufacture an excellent sounding USB cable. If I was going to buy an USB cable I would probably listen to it.

BTW, I own very expensive BNC and AES/EBU digital cables in my system and , yes I should feel guilty about it. But they sound so good that I can live with the guilt!

 

[Taiko Audio]

If I was going to buy an USB cable I would probably listen to it.

That is what makes these so interesting. They are visually completely identical, yet the gain in precision, detail and overall fidelity moving up the line while the general sound signature does not change seems to support their claims.

 

[Rhapsody]

I envy you. For me noise and vibration is still as mysterious as it was a few years ago, although I am happy that we have implementations of digital that sound better than years ago and can enjoy them . Can I ask who are the "others" over the last year? As far as I remember the first to systematically deal with vibration in electronics was Goldmund, long ago.

The noise and vibration subjects were not new to me. I have been hearing about them since the 70's, not necessarily related to audio. I sold CAD/CAM systems in the 80's and the vibration control in the aerospace and automotive industry was a constant discussion.

Somehow I never felt like I had a grasp on it regarding audio, although it has been discussed way before the turn of the century in audio.

I think it was osmosis just listening/reading the converstaions here on WBF specifically, not so much the other forums, about the active vibration control systems and then all of the Stillpoint/footer market that sprung up over the last 10 years.

It all really jelled for me with meeting Emile as he looks at both vibration control, even internal to the Extreme, as well as noise reduction, both internally to the Extreme as well as anything that feeds into or out of the Extreme.

The "others" were some folks not on WBF but had to do with cables. It finally crystalized for me that all you can do to make an audio signal better is to reduce the noise and RF/EMI interferences. The cable guys do it and this last year is the first year that I had open, frank discussions about it.

Understood that silver or copper wire or cable geometries and connectors make a difference, but I think that noise reduction and EMI/RF interference rejetion in cables is what allows a delicate audio signal to pass through the "wires" with the least harm being done to the signal.

Yes, Goldmund has been doing mechanical grounding before anyone even thought about it for audio applications. Evacuating undesirable resonaces via various mechanical grounding techniques both internally with their speakers as well as their circuit boards in their electronics.

SO, I've always been aware of noise reduction and vc, but somehow it was always fuzzy for me.

I really point to Emile as the person that somehow with his clear articulation of both vc and noise reduction made me say to myself, OH YEAH I see that, it's easy. Both noise reduction (electrically and in the signal path) and vibration control are critically important in every little step of the digital chain.

Emile is the only manufacturer that somehow through his vey clear expanations crystalized it all for me.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

10.735 albums, 4542 Redbook, 3529 high res PCM, 2694 DSD

17.2TB disk space

this morning for the last hour i've been enjoying my newly copied 17.2TB's of files.....thank you Emile ......onto the newly installed PCIe drives......thank you also to my Son (and Emile's detailed instructions) for that install part.....in the Extreme.

previously Emile had copied 5 albums onto the 2TB of resident drives a couple weeks ago, so i had a feel for it. but being able to stretch out and try everything, the consequence of this step seems to be a bit 'more' profound compared to my NAS access than perceived before. and only redbook so far.

adding this step to the Gobel USB addition pretty much checks all the boxes......it seems i am hearing waaay into the music. i would say that the Gobel and the PCIe drives compliment each other.....if that makes sense.

 

[spiritofmusic]

Mike, just as long as someone doesn't ask "so how does yr digital at this moment now compare to yr analog" LOL.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Mike, just as long as someone doesn't ask "so how does yr digital at this moment now compare to yr analog" LOL.

to be very honest, i am going to be keeping my mind open on all that stuff. we have moved things quite a ways down the road on this digital stuff.

OTOH i still have a din cable upgrade coming for my new Durand Tosca tone arm too.

i don't expect my hierarchy to change......

i have 6 visitors coming Tuesday night. i'll enjoy hearing what they think at this point. fresh ears are always helpful.

 

[Rhapsody]

I had three visitors in yesterday. One was a studio recording engineer and also a musican and then two gents with nice audio systems, but I would not call them audiophiles.

I played Miles Davis "In a Silent Way" on the Studer A812, then on the AF1P, then a DSD file, then a Qobuz file and then a Tidal file on the Etreme. One issue is who knows the origin and how far from the master tape each recording on the given format, anyway, the unanomous results were:

1) R2R
2)AF1P
3)DSD file
4)Qobuz
5)Tidal

No surprise here, but what followed happens all the time.

Once we played all the different formats no one asked for anything other than "give me the Ipad". We listened for two more hours and with the Studer and AF1P still turned on, no one said let's hear another tape or Album. We listened to mostly Classical and Jazz and they were all amazed and satified with picking Qobuz selections and enjoying the musical experience.

One of the visitors emailed after returning home and said he was thinking of buying a R2R and it really sounds great, but he thinks he will just focus on making his digital better as the digital was so satisfying.

 

[microstrip]

I had three visitors in yesterday. One was a studio recording engineer and also a musican and then two gents with nice audio systems, but I would not call them audiophiles.

I played Miles Davis "In a Silent Way" on the Studer A812, then on the AF1P, then a DSD file, then a Qobuz file and then a Tidal file on the Etreme. One issue is who knows the origin and how far from the master tape each recording on the given format, anyway, the unanomous results were:

1) R2R
2)AF1P
3)DSD file
4)Qobuz
5)Tidal

No surprise here, but what followed happens all the time.

Once we played all the different formats no one asked for anything other than "give me the Ipad". We listened for two more hours and with the Studer and AF1P still turned on, no one said let's hear another tape or Album. We listened to mostly Classical and Jazz and they were all amazed and satified with picking Qobuz selections and enjoying the musical experience.

One of the visitors emailed after returning home and said he was thinking of buying a R2R and it really sounds great, but he thinks he will just focus on making his digital better as the digital was so satisfying.

You are addressing a studio recording of the late 60's recorded in analog tape using techniques to use this media at its best and played probably an excellent copy of it in the original format using a quality tape machine and other digital versions to someone who knows it. They preferred the original format as expected by any one.

IMHO the only interesting test in similar situations would be checking for the transparency of digital links - a test that is difficult to carry to audiophiles, but easy to professionals that unfortunately have different preferences than audiophiles.

IMHO the intrinsic capabilities and resolution of both formats are too different to allow simple generalizations. Most of the time we are just listening how professionals use both to create great recordings, not to what is the most pleasing format.

We should remember that some people prefer listening to digital vinyl and digital analog tapes to the playback of the digital streams.

 

[Rhapsody]

You are addressing a studio recording of the late 60's recorded in analog tape using techniques to use this media at its best and played probably an excellent copy of it in the original format using a quality tape machine and other digital versions to someone who knows it. They preferred the original format as expected by any one.

IMHO the only interesting test in similar situations would be checking for the transparency of digital links - a test that is difficult to carry to audiophiles, but easy to professionals that unfortunately have different preferences than audiophiles.

IMHO the intrinsic capabilities and resolution of both formats are too different to allow simple generalizations. Most of the time we are just listening how professionals use both to create great recordings, not to what is the most pleasing format.

We should remember that some people prefer listening to digital vinyl and digital analog tapes to the playback of the digital streams.

Understood, I was just sharing my experience with no real point trying to be made.

 

[microstrip]

That is what makes these so interesting. They are visually completely identical, yet the gain in precision, detail and overall fidelity moving up the line while the general sound signature does not change seems to support their claims.

No, unfortunately it does not support their claims. It seems so only for people who do not know technically what is the concept of characteristic impedance and matching impedance. They claim direct correlation between sound quality and impedance accuracy and do not present any argument to prove it except misleading oversimplified data.

BTW1, when we study correlation the second thing we address is the myth of babies and corks ...

BTW2 if this claim is true, fine tuning the accuracy of the impedance of the source and receiver would make digital to surpass analog ...

 

[microstrip]

Understood, I was just sharing my experience with no real point trying to be made.

I would love to have your opinion on this recording. https://www.alia-vox.com/en/catalogue/les-rutes-de-lesclavatge/ . The SACD version changed my opinions on digital.

 

[Taiko Audio]

They claim direct correlation between sound quality and impedance accuracy.

Not interested

 

[Rhapsody]

I would love to have your opinion on this recording. https://www.alia-vox.com/en/catalogue/les-rutes-de-lesclavatge/ . The SACD version changed my opinions on digital.

I found it on Tidal, will listen to it when I have a system turned on and give my opinion. Looks interesting.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

i did recall this morning that i had an unused 1m Sablon Panatela Reserva LAN/Ethernet cable. so, considering Emile's comments, i went upstairs and inserted it between my fibre and the Gigaswitch. got a slight uptick to my ears. nice. and no money spent.

http://sablonaudio.com/index.php/signal

 

[Sablon Audio]

Glad you got a boost there Mike and fwiw I have subsequently introduced a decent upgrade on this model should you wish to get in touch for yours to be updated.

 

[Mike Lavigne]

Glad you got a boost there Mike and fwiw I have subsequently introduced a decent upgrade on this model should you wish to get in touch for yours to be updated.

thank you Mark, i will consider that.

 

[Kris]

Interesting Emile
My 10Gb switch scales to 1Gb depending on SFP module thus I thought all 10Gb fiber stuff would scale down....Does the Extreme 10Gb card scale down?

Both are right !
Some swiches scale down some not.
Especially the SFP ports might be fixed with 10 only in some swiches.
But I would prefer to get the swich with BOTH speeds .