What are the pros & cons of high-efficiency horns?

[Robh3606]

This is the successor to the CP350TI and appears from specs to be the same motor but with a plastic dome instead of a Ti dome.

There are people with the opinion that the plastic/polymer domes are better damped than an equivalent metal dome. The drivers I use have either Magnesium, Aluminum or Beryllium with a dampening coating that is sprayed on. I have compared titanium with and without and there is a difference with the dampening. You can also measure the difference in time looking at a CSD measurement. I have no first hand experience using a driver with a polymer dome. I know the M2 compression driver also uses dual polymer rings.

Rob

 

[DaveC]

Any idea what they use in the mid bass horn?

I've seen the driver, I forget exactly what it is, but it's a wideband cone driver... nothing extraordinary.

 

[DaveC]

There are people with the opinion that the plastic/polymer domes are better damped than an equivalent metal dome. The drivers I use have either Magnesium, Aluminum or Beryllium with a dampening coating that is sprayed on. I have compared titanium with and without and there is a difference with the dampening. You can also measure the difference in time looking at a CSD measurement. I have no first hand experience using a driver with a polymer dome. I know the M2 compression driver also uses dual polymer rings.

Rob

The higher end Fostex tweeters changed from Al to Mg, and it's a night and day difference, the Mg versions are amazing, Al are great for cymbals but not much else.

 

[jeff1225]

Fortunately Greece is far away from me ...
https://www.chameleon-audio.com/en/second-hand/category/39-speakersView attachment 57969

I absolutely love the industrial design of those speakers!

 

[DaveC]

Beymas are excellent in my experience. I haven't used any of the large-format Beymas yet, but the CP-385Nd is very nice in a small-format driver.

Ime it's a good idea for the driver's exit angle to match the horn's entry angle (or at least come close). Your statement that the CP-755Ti on the 18Sound XT1464 sounds "very uncolored" makes me think you either paid attention to this, or the audio gods were smiling on you. (Not that I take every DIYer's endorsement of his handiwork at face value, but you have credibility in my opinion.)

By the way, lovely little speakers in your family room system... Odeons, I presume? [edit: I was typing while you were replying to Rob.] I'm working with wooden horns now as well:

That looks great Duke!

Curious as to the difference you hear between the wood and the rectangular plastic waveguides?

 

[DaveC]

I absolutely love the industrial design of those speakers!

Chamelion audio is a great name, I thought they looked like some sort of robot/insect creature...

 

[Tango]

What have you got in the Cessaros, Tang? The 4001 and 2001?

Actually 4001 and the 2002 that Leif was talking about .

 

[Folsom]

Chamelion audio is a great name, I thought they looked like some sort of robot/insect creature...

Ya, I can’t see industrial either. The horn reminds me of Sci-Fi stuff.

 

[jeff1225]

Ya, I can’t see industrial either. The horn reminds me of Sci-Fi stuff.

Industrial Design

noun
the art that deals with the design problems of manufactured objects, including problems of designing such objects with consideration for available materials and means of production, of designing packages, bottles, etc., for manufactured goods, and of graphic design for manufactured objects, packages, etc.

 

[Folsom]

I’m sorry Jeff, it just doesn’t work for me. It’s not where my brain goes.

 

[Duke LeJeune]

That looks great Duke!

Thank you very much, Dave.

Curious as to the difference you hear between the wood and the rectangular plastic waveguides?

There is an audible family resemblance, both being gentle constant-directivity types based on similar math... the round wooden horn being an Oblate Spheroid, whereas the rectangular plastic horn is a Super-Elliptical Oblate Spheroid (SEOS). The plastic horn is inert enough that I don't think the difference in materials is a major factor.

I think the Oblate Spheroid profile is superior by a small but noticeable margin.

Those who have heard speakers of mine with both types of horns, including A/B'd side-by-side in the same system and same room, have preferred the Gina over her predecessors. Comments include "more detail" and "more relaxing". One listener who heard both side-by-side put this in an e-mail about the Gina: “Solo singers had extreme sensation of a living person breathing and singing in front of me, but completely devoid of glare, etching, grunge, etc. When notes stopped there was an extreme reverberant tail of the notes dying away, moreso than any prior known [to me] event for [reproduced] audio.” (The comment about the reveberant tail may have been more about other parts of the system.)

Since the round wooden horn adds a fair amount of cost, my lower priced models will use the SEOS horns and my higher priced models will use the wooden Oblate Spheroid ones. And if I hope to have speakers which are not out of place on a forum called "What's Best", they will have the round wooden Oblate Spheroid horns.

 

[jeff1225]

I’m sorry Jeff, it just doesn’t work for me. It’s not where my brain goes.

your brain doesn't agree with what words mean? The word "Industrial design" just means the design of products. So you might think it looks alien, that just means the industrial design is "alien looking."

Words have meanings.

 

[bonzo75]

Actually 4001 and the 2002 that Leif was talking about .

View attachment 57979

You also have a tweeter?

 

[bonzo75]

The website says tweeter and option of 2001 or 2

https://www.cessaro.de/products/gamma-ii/

 

[morricab]

Trios need an wide room, even the compact version. Otherwise I would have tried them. But, in general, I have not seen a great enthusiasm for the Avantgarde / Lamm pairing online.

BTW, nothing of this size has decent resale value ...

Which is why you can pick them up for a nice price from someone

 

[morricab]

Any idea what they use in the mid bass horn?

Audax...perhaps aerogel...I used to know the model number...I was seriously thinking about a pair then made the mistake of showing them to my wife

 

[kodomo]

You also have a tweeter?

yes, the Cessaro gamma II, like my system, adds a tweeter on top. In this case a TAD et703.

@Duke LeJeune
I also have found out by listening that I preferred Radians over TAD's for 2". Radian delivered as much and sounded more relaxed.
I also used beryllium radian 475 like you do but when I tried TAD 2001, they were close but TAD sounded a little better on its own. I use radian 850 for my 2", I decided go for the Radian 475be for the 1" as I thought they integrated better. The bandwidth I use the 1" is also very limited so it is not enough for the TAD to shine and make a difference. It could also be my a priori thinking leading me to believe same brands work better together.
I do not plan to change but first to try the jmlc 270 with 4003 and jmlc 1400 with 2002. If they better what I have now audibly and measurably then I will change them.

 

[Tango]

You also have a tweeter?

Yes.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I was really blown away when I heard it. I would put it in the middle of an Avantgarde Duo Omega and a classic Tannoy 15". You get the top level resolution of the Avantgarde but the great bass of the Tannoy. The speaker bests every speaker I've heard except for the Tannoy Autograph Professionals. Full Jadis system but I don't remember the actual model of amps.

Although I love my current speakers, now that I have more room I would buy a pair in a heartbeat if they came up.

That Jadis looks like a very interesting speaker!

 

[christensenleif@msn.com]

The 2002 sounds better in JMLC2500 than in 1400 when you hipass above 5-6K